Depth of coins.

[Sa_bogan]

Well firstly your using a small coil so you can not expect much from that.

Secondly no machine will tell you 100% what is in the hole. No matter how fancy the screens are. This is from
someone having tested a whites v3i.

Sure if theres silver the machine will tell you that but what about a similar sized target with similar conductivity?

Then as targets get deeper iron target will sound off like a good one. The Deus is good with this in reference to
iron.

I believe Fisher make a 15" coil for the F75.
I have sent you a PM.

i would have to disagree with you there wolf in regards to larger coil always means more depth or greater depth as per link below

http://www.metaldetectingworld.com/search_coil_size_applications.shtml

you are correct with detectors being unable to be 100% accurate with target id but i know from the the 2 that i have used with ID screens there pretty close on the mark given targets with same size and conductivity still being able to trick it. and how can you use the v3i as the 'bench mark' for all detectors?

if i may add my 2c i have been using the stock 11" on the ctx and found it to be a good size. I have used my 17" coil on the beach and found it to be very much the same results in depth but makes target separation harder. Have you tried coming at the targets at different directions gold target?

 

[Guest]

Well firstly your using a small coil so you can not expect much from that.

Secondly no machine will tell you 100% what is in the hole. No matter how fancy the screens are. This is from
someone having tested a whites v3i.

Sure if theres silver the machine will tell you that but what about a similar sized target with similar conductivity?

Then as targets get deeper iron target will sound off like a good one. The Deus is good with this in reference to
iron.

I believe Fisher make a 15" coil for the F75.
I have sent you a PM.

i would have to disagree with you there wolf in regards to larger coil always means more depth or greater depth as per link below

http://www.metaldetectingworld.com/search_coil_size_applications.shtml

you are correct with detectors being unable to be 100% accurate with target id but i know from the the 2 that i have used with ID screens there pretty close on the mark given targets with same size and conductivity still being able to trick it. and how can you use the v3i as the 'bench mark' for all detectors?

Thank you for quoting what I wrote.

You have misread a couple of things here.

The coil that is being used by Goldtarget is a 10x5 which is around 7" round and my suggestion for a larger coil was based around this.
Goldtarget mentioned the 15" and all I did was state it was made by Fisher.

If you take a look above the coil size I suggested was a 10" or 12" not knowing which are available but a good size to work with. Detech for
example make a 12" DD.

how can you use the v3i as the 'bench mark' for all detectors?

I never stated the v3i was a Benchmark but it is whites flagship detector. What I do know is whites has been developing this platform for a
very long time and if you know how to use it you won't dig any aluminium screw caps but still dig silver and our $1 and $2 coins This
has been my experience to date anyway.

The other advantage you have if the screen gets scratched its a cheap replacement.

you are correct with detectors being unable to be 100% accurate with target id but i know from the the 2 that i have used with ID screens there pretty close on the mark given targets with same size and conductivity still being able to trick it.

Thank you for your statement.

Well these are your words not mine and its why I have not purchased the ctx 3030 that costs around $2600. Nothing to do
with the machine just the price.

 

[KarlS]

Guys, if you are worried about scratching the screen, just get one of those self adhesive tablet screen protectors, cut it to size and stick it on.
Karl

 

[Sa_bogan]

the ctx comes with one

 

[Paulmarr]

Yes well the only person that mentioned scratching the screen was Wolfau - another non-relevant comment to the original post.

The OP mentions Etrac/CTX which sa bogan is an owner of ... Thank you for your statement but .... The size of the coil does not guarantee depth and I'm sure if the screen indicators were that unreliable there would be no point of having them.

Many finds have been deeper than 5 inches so the OP would be better served with the Etrac or CTX if depth is what your trying to achieve ... Team bogan has been successful in unearthing targets greater than 18 inches and spot on with the target I'd ...

 

[Sa_bogan]

didnt the sovereign ping a Mercury dime last week at 18"?

 

[Goldtarget]

To put this all in perspective GP probably hit the nail on the head the g2 and explorer in combination are a good match, the Fisher running a similar platform is very easy to make the comparison at least for me, to obtain an explorer or etrac. The 3030 is just a little over budget for its advantages, and with the closest Beach 2.5 hours drive is not going to see that type of use. Ultimately I will report back after a few months on what I found and experiences, given enough time I'm sure the finds will increase I'm ahead already and look forward to the next set of challenges. Thanks for all your input guys.

 

[G0lddigg@]

Lets keep it civil fella's no need to start poking one another stick to the topic please

 

[Goldpick]

Each to their own regarding detectors, one particular detector may have everything you want, and suit you perfectly, whilst the same detector may be nothing more than a pain to operate for someone else, especially due to issues of complexity, setup, operating weight, and what your main objectives are.

Whilst I like my explorer, I am not going to say it is the grand master at un-masking targets, un-paralleled performance in iron etc etc, it is simply competant for my purposes and budget, and I still have a long way to go at fully utilising and understanding all its features and capabilities - I reckon that's half the fun.

The stock 11" coil is fine for most applications, achieves good depth and separation, and personally the detector fits the bill of a good dirt machine and very capable beach detector, moreso than a single frequency detector.

In my view, if you are going to TOTALLY ignore the included features that exist on some of the more competant dirt detectors, like target ID's, depth indicators, and some discrimination abilities, you may as well just not bother in the first place, and go with non vdi based detector and hunt in all-metal. Those features are there to AID your detecting, and although should not be seen as proving 100% certainty of what is under the coil, they do help out with your detecting activities.

If there was such a detector out there that could achieve faultless identification of target, I'm sure everyone would be scrambling over each other to use the same detector.

If I hadn't needed the beach capabilities, I most likely would have just gone back to using the Tesoro Vaquero again, which in itself is an excellent, cost effective, simple to use, lightweight dirt detector with impressive depth and discrimination abilites to boot, it just can't ground balance properly on the sand.

 

[Goldtarget]

SA Bogan: Have you tried coming at the targets at different directions gold target?

Yes mate and i get where your coming from in asking this question. Often depending on orientation this will make a big difference to id and pinpoint but not every time for my machine unfortunately. I think a clip would really do justice to what I'm encountering but alas I'm not technology savvy enough to make this happen. The Times I've used this method successfully I've managed to geta read on the id at least one way in a semi consistant fashion to go digging, with a few pre decs to show for it. My id numbers run in correlation with my number id but usually I get it jumping around from low to mid to high. That's OK when the retrieved target is junk, but when the silvers and coppers are appearing in a similar fashion it gets very disheartening quickly especially after my fair share of junk and then "surprise" finds. Some areas are quite sensitive so anything that helps that decision to dig or not will be very favorable. At the moment I'm left digging everything at 7 inches plus on a maybe iffy non repeatable signal. Perhaps I'm asking to much to get extra depth with reasonable repeatability but I'm maxed at my current offering.

 

[Ben78]

Hey Goldtarget, I could reliably hit and ID 12" deep coins when I had my T2 (not SE/LTD) with 11" DD coil. No a penny did not ID at 82 like those that were 5-6" deep it was more like 64-66, but the way I worked it was that I would know that the coin was deep because the Target ID was low it would occasionally ping the audio in the high tone. A quick depth check confirms 10+ inches of depth and it was coming out. Ended up being just as accurate TID method as for the shallower coins, and I started to pull big numbers. Once pulled 28 predecimals in 45 minutes in one of the parks I hunted by just correlating the depth with the ID and realising that a lower TID number combined with depth meant the actual ID was going to be a higher number if you get what I mean. The same goes for all of the Fisher T2 and derivative machines.

A couple of parks I hunted reliably had 10"+ deep coins and you really had to have an ear open and move slowly and repetitively to nail them. I didn't find the Explorer SE was any better at hitting the deep coins than the T2, and the T2 was markedly better in heavy iron trash than the Explorer.

 

[Sa_bogan]

Hmm I know what your saying. I'm not familiar with the settings on your detector but you might be hitting multipul targets in one sweep giving it different readings or have a fast recovery setting which gives different id on deeper targets. Try using your photo and upload to YouTube

 

[Goldtarget]

Very interesting Ben. Older machine maybe add some wear and tear and smaller coil and it's easy to explain. I'll pop in and have a chat about hiring one (f75 or t2) with a larger coil and the same sizes I run and put them side by side. I still see myself going down the new detector route but perhaps there's still more I can gain with what I have for the price of a coil. Had a chat to my mate who sold me the f75 last night and he gave me a laugh when he told me it might be cheaper to buy some nice silvers than upgrade . Importantly though I have no complaints about what it has done for me up until now is a solid unit that does the job well, it would take a big difference from another machine to see me part with it. Again thanks for your replies I sure do appreciate it.

 

[Goldtarget]

Punched in an order with detech, I'll let you know how I get on.

 

[loamer]

From the US - makes sense when you think about it.

ABOUT COIN DEPTHS
Why are some older coins very shallow when newer coins are deep at the same sites?
How can a new coin sink deeper in a few years than an old one in over 80 years?
The Density of Soil
The density of inorganic soil is from 2.6 to 2.8 and any object of greater density,
including coins, would eventually sink until the density of the soil equaled the density of
the object.
The Sink Rate
The sink rate is determined by the difference in density, the greater the density the
faster the sink rate. Contributing factors are vibration, rain, frozen soil, grass build up,
leaves and a few others.
How often the ground gets saturated can be a much bigger driver of coin depth than any
minor differences in soil density. Until the ground directly beneath the coin becomes
saturated to the point where the dirt becomes suspended in the water, and can move to
the sides of the coin due to the coin weight, then little depth due to sinking can occur.
That's why many coins seem to end up in the 6-8 inch range - it takes a real soaker to
move them deeper. So maybe the discrepancies in coin depth can be attributed to minor
differences in the local drainage. The finer the soil particles, the easier they get
suspended and the faster the sink rate.
Chart of Densities
Here is a chart of the densities of some of the common metals we find with metal
detectors, also the differences in the density of different metals and a major difference
between most of them and soil.
Looking at the chart below, the dime should sink a lot farther than the penny, because
the gravity is twice as high on silver as copper is? I know I've found silver just under the
grass and then dug 6" or 7" for a one cent coin. Nothing worse than getting a deep
signal, dig it and it's a one cent coin!
The good stuff is sinking faster than the trash. No wonder not many gold coins are being
found!
Density of Precious Metals
Platinum 21.45
Gold 19.3
Silver 10.5
Copper 9.0Densities of Some Common Metals
Aluminum 2.7
Lead 11.4
Magnesium 1.8
Steel 7.8
Tin 7.3
Zinc 7.1
Iron 7.87

 

[silver]

Let us not forget Loamer that after the rain came the horses that trod the coins down to that 4 inch depth in the mud and left them all (mostly) lying flat. And the worms that remove the soil from under a coin and shite it out at the surface digging it a bit deeper every time they defecate. And last but not least the halo effect that puts that lovely bit of silver into the soil(and copper), if anyone ever finds out that worms don't like silver halo as much as copper halo then they will work out why copper coins could end up deeper than silver content coins(only my hypothesis).

 

[Wally69]

Let us not forget Loamer that after the rain came the horses that trod the coins down to that 4 inch depth in the mud and left them all (mostly) lying flat. And the worms that remove the soil from under a coin and shite it out at the surface digging it a bit deeper every time they defecate. And last but not least the halo effect that puts that lovely bit of silver into the soil(and copper), if anyone ever finds out that worms don't like silver halo as much as copper halo then they will work out why copper coins could end up deeper than silver content coins(only my hypothesis).

So DEEP.....so very DEEP :lol:

 

[Ramjet]

Good read Loamer. Thank you.

 

[KarlS]

Let us not forget Loamer that after the rain came the horses that trod the coins down to that 4 inch depth in the mud and left them all (mostly) lying flat. And the worms that remove the soil from under a coin and shite it out at the surface digging it a bit deeper every time they defecate. And last but not least the halo effect that puts that lovely bit of silver into the soil(and copper), if anyone ever finds out that worms don't like silver halo as much as copper halo then they will work out why copper coins could end up deeper than silver content coins(only my hypothesis).

Worms don't like copper. Marine antifouling and timber preservatives are based on copper compounds. Copper and brass is poisonous to microorganisms, fungi and bugs. Brass door knobs, handles and taps work as antiseptic and as Adds say " Kill 99.9% of germs".
Don't know about silver, but it kills Vampires :lol:
Karl

 

[outboard]

another possible contributor would be the effects the metal decomposing has on soil condition. My brother years ago was very into organic growing and one of the books he had written by some professor who was very critical of the established ways and the government advisers to farmers discussed an area in Tasmania where they were recommending adding tonnes of iron to the soil , his tests showed that there was more then enough iron but what was missing was copper which apparently made the iron accessible to the plants. I don't know if the improvement would make soil "softer" or even if it is relevant to coin shooting but my head full of useless information brought this memory to the front at the original posts mention of the penny sinking faster then the dime