Whites TDI Pro, let the testing begin.

[Nugget]

Did you get the cheat sheet from GSA when you purchased it? If not, I can send you a copy of you like.

 

[Nikos]

Mate that would be awesome..I have an owners manual..which I've downloaded from the whites site..(lost the original) ..

..and embarrassingly ground balance is still a mystery..

Nikos

 

[Nugget]

Mate that would be awesome..I have an owners manual..which I've downloaded from the whites site..(lost the original) ..

..and embarrassingly ground balance is still a mystery..

Nikos

No worries Nikos, I just found it on the GSA website http://www.goldsearchaustralia.com/Documents/TDI-Startup.pdf

In regards to ground balancing, it's actually quite easy once you get the hang of it.

As a general rule for mineralised ground you should start with the coarse GB control set between 8 and 9 (for everywhere else start the coarse GB control at 12 o'clock until you become familiar with that particular ground), then set the fine GB control at 12 o'clock. Now slowly lower and raise the coil between 1 to 6 inches off the ground, if you hear a high (tone) ground response you should turn the coarse knob up (clockwise) just a little bit and try lowering and raising the coil again, likewise if the ground response tone is low you should turn the coarse control down (anti-clockwise) just a little bit and try again. Essentially the aim is to find that silent point between high and low.

If you can get it pretty close but you're still hearing a slight high or low ground response, now you should adjust the fine GB control in the same fashion as above (don't touch it otherwise). Just remember to turn the ground balance controls incrementally each time, turning them too much at a time will make it very difficult to find that perfect balance.

Check out DiggerBob's video as it pretty well explains how to ground balance (at around 7 minutes), and even though the TDI SL doesn't have the fine GB control, the process it very much the same.

[video=480,360]http://youtu.be/Qz75_Yr-nfA[/video]

 

[Nikos]

That was brilliant ..thanks nugget!

 

[Dogmatic]

Great video , thanks Nugget. Just spent a day and a half at Wattle Flat with the TDI Pro OZ. Sadly, no gold. Plenty of bullets and heaps of other small iron rubbish. Flecks of iron a couple of inches down, so I have no doubt about this machines capabilities. Mind you, ground balancing. There were some spots I am buggered if I could get it to balance to an acceptable level. It just wouldn't do it. I found that I was having to rebalance quite regularly, not sure if this is normal for all machines? I am sure this was because of the changing ground, not the machine. I will tell you now a bull ants nest goes off. I think it is because of all the iron stone? Maybe someone can shed light on that?

There was one area that I was having heaps of noise with the TDI and had a go on the SPP that the daughter was swinging. I have to say the SPP was definately quiter than the TDI in this area and a hell of a lot easier to use. I had an 8x6 sadie on the TDI and a 12x7 on the SPP (both Nugget Finder coils). Ground balancing is not a hard concept, however the TDI appeared to struggle in some spots and needed continual checking/adjusting.

 

[Guest]

Areas like that I use low it will cut right down on noise and you generally won't need to drop the gain back. the SPP has circuitry to cut down this noise' the TDI pro doesn't.

 

[Dogmatic]

Thanks Zuke I found that to be the case as well. In some spost also had to drop the gain right back to around 2 or 3. Generaly swinging in low kept it all under control.

Have to say I love both the SPP and the TDI. Bloody easy to use, light and seem to be very capable. Thinking of taking the SPP and just following the high voltage power lines where many others can't go.

 

[Nugget]

Great video , thanks Nugget. Just spent a day and a half at Wattle Flat with the TDI Pro OZ. Sadly, no gold. Plenty of bullets and heaps of other small iron rubbish. Flecks of iron a couple of inches down, so I have no doubt about this machines capabilities. Mind you, ground balancing. There were some spots I am buggered if I could get it to balance to an acceptable level. It just wouldn't do it. I found that I was having to rebalance quite regularly, not sure if this is normal for all machines? I am sure this was because of the changing ground, not the machine. I will tell you now a bull ants nest goes off. I think it is because of all the iron stone? Maybe someone can shed light on that?

There was one area that I was having heaps of noise with the TDI and had a go on the SPP that the daughter was swinging. I have to say the SPP was definately quiter than the TDI in this area and a hell of a lot easier to use. I had an 8x6 sadie on the TDI and a 12x7 on the SPP (both Nugget Finder coils). Ground balancing is not a hard concept, however the TDI appeared to struggle in some spots and needed continual checking/adjusting.

I had no real issue with ground balancing with the NF 8x6 Sadie, even in area's of very high mineralisation (basalt and ironstone riddled hills). As Zuke_Lynzy said, flicking it into low probably would have solved the problem, and I had to do this myself once or twice at Nundle after which the threshold was nice and smooth.

 

[Guest]

The ground out there can be harsh in places - some say its as harsh as you'll find? Reeks & Heatho found it pretty rough going with a SD2200D & SDC2300 too. I've had some issues out there with the GPX5000 as well particularly in one area after rain. Hot pockets everywhere + throw in some EMI from the flight path & it can be a difficult day :lol:
Definitely a good place to learn your machine/s.

 

[Nugget]

I found this on another forum regarding an EMI reducer and thought part of it was somewhat relevant to this discussion.

This is the trouble with hunting in ALL. Just a bit noisy for sure. The ferrite will block out random Cell phone and plane signals. So just those that pop in once and awhile. It also helps with lightning in the distance. But it will not smooth out the normal TDI noise in all. This is where Whites tried to fix the problem with the SL model. They got the threshold smooth but at the cost of signal strength and some depth. NO do not run out and buy an SL! Your TDI Pro will outshine it in every way except the perfect smooth thresh! I know you are trying to get a perfect threshold but it is not needed like one would think or we are used to being told by everyone all the time. Just set it as smooth as you can get it. Then get out your test target. Yes as you sweep over the ground you will hear ups and downs but if you notice the signals are "longer" and "slower" as you move the coil and if you sweep over a questionable signal from a 90 degree sweep it will then go away. Then put your test target down, and it will come through "sharp" and "repeatable" from all angles. I have found that it is pretty rare that a good target will only give a signal one direction and not on the 90 degree also. Also as you move across the ground you lets say you get a soft signal that gives it in both directions of the sweep from straight on and 90 across. But it is soft and long not sharp. But hey maybe it is a deep nugget. Well drag your foot or pick over the ground and scape just a light layer off. If it was the ground it will go away and if it is truly a target it is going to get louder. This all takes time and for your brain and ear to learn what sounds are hidden in the thresh. This comes with time.

It is a real bummer that guys get very wrapped up in a smooth threshold that they read about online. Trust me there is no such thing as a perfect threshold or detector that is free from noise. The design depends on running on the edge of thresh to be able to hear a small target. Along with that you are going to get some noise. If you dial out for a perfect thresh then you also may have just dialed out a small nugget or a big one deep.

Source http://z7.invisionfree.com/whitesgo...b0&showtopic=628&view=findpost&p=22102245

 

[Heatho]

The ground out there can be harsh in places - some say its as harsh as you'll find? Reeks & Heatho found it pretty rough going with a SD2200D & SDC2300 too. I've had some issues out there with the GPX5000 as well particularly in one area after rain. Hot pockets everywhere + throw in some EMI from the flight path & it can be a difficult day :lol:
Definitely a good place to learn your machine/s.

Some days seem worse than others too at Wattle Flat, the ground is very harsh as Matt said and my GPX has trouble there also, you have to ground balance literally every few feet you move forward. Hot rocks are plentiful also and the GPX will find them too in some timings.

The SDC ran very nicely there but still got a few ground noises and a few hotrocks, Reeko had to ground balance a lot too with his SD with 14DD, so don't worry about the White's capabilities there as it is very hard going for any detector and operator.

Don't dig the ants nest unless pretty sure it's a nugget or you will have probably fallen victim to someones rotton sense of humour. :lol:

 

[Ridge Runner]

I found this on another forum regarding an EMI reducer and thought part of it was somewhat relevant to this discussion
This is the trouble with hunting in ALL. Just a bit noisy for sure. The ferrite will block out random Cell phone and plane signals. So just those that pop in once and awhile. It also helps with lightning in the distance. But it will not smooth out the normal TDI noise in all. This is where Whites tried to fix the problem with the SL model. They got the threshold smooth but at the cost of signal strength and some depth. NO do not run out and buy an SL! Your TDI Pro will outshine it in every way except the perfect smooth thresh!

The thing with the TDI Pro having more depth is only Very small and around +/- 10% maybe an inch at the most, This is Due the fact that The SL has the Built in Noise Cancelling Circuit and it has a smaller Battery than the TDI Pro's Lithium Batteries That puts out 14.4 volts and the Claimed voltage of the TDI SL being 9.6,,,, When I checked mine it reads 11.2 to 11.4 and if I use the dry cell pack its putting out over 12.6 volts, which gives you back some of that depth, But here's something I found out doing battery tests If you use Energizer Lithium (Non Rechargable) Batteries when your NiMh goes flat It DOES put out 14.6088 Volts, Which puts the power up to match that of the TDI Pro, The Safe working Voltage on Both of these Machines is 16.0 Volts and the AMP Draw on the TDI SL is 0.460mah,
Now by using these Batteries might drain ya wallet faster than a Keg at the S.o.A But the TDI SL will hold it's Own and the more voltage it gets the Smaller the difference will be, and the Threshold is just a Bonus along with the Light weight of the machine, The thing is using the 3 types of Batteries mentioned you can pick how Big the difference is and there are Mods that will change the power using the Dry Cell Pack using rechargable's IE 2700mah x 9 gives you 12 volts and about 23% longer run time,

Hope this helps, HH

 

[Guest]

Won't the voltage be regulated within the machine? How would more voltage give more depth if its ran through a regulator?
I.e if you use 8 x 1.2v batteries @ 9.6v & the machine is regulated @ say 8v then using 8 x 1.5v batteries @ 12v the machine would still be regulated @ 8v?
From what the Whites forum is saying all of the TDI machines are regulated but at what voltage I'm not sure?

 

[Ridge Runner]

No Because the Machine is Regulated to except The Higher limit of 16.0 Volts, Because Whites Built in this Safety Factor because the Voltage Varies so Much between Battery Brands IE for NiMh they Quote 9.6 when in fact its about 11.2 to 11.6 and when you put DuraCells in the Dry Pack you have 1.67v x 8 = 13.36 So they Had the foresight to Give it a Limit of 16.0 volts and Using the Energizer Lithium you get 1.8261 Volts x 8 = 14.6088 volts and don't forget about half a volt will drop off that in the first hour as the Power reserves evens out,

Also if you use Energizer Lithium They Will Not Leak and Have a Shelf Life of 10 Years, So if you chuck a set in ya back pack they will be good as new 10 years from now, as Many blokes on the shooting forums found out the hard way using Duracell and Normal Energizer Batteries with them leaking in expensive electronic Gear, Yes they Cost But Boy do they last and they will last up to 10 Times Longer than the Other Two I mentioned here and they resist extreme cold about -20 and +50/60*c ,,,Ok

hope this helps.

 

[Goldfield Joe]

Great video , thanks Nugget. Just spent a day and a half at Wattle Flat with the TDI Pro OZ. Sadly, no gold. Plenty of bullets and heaps of other small iron rubbish. Flecks of iron a couple of inches down, so I have no doubt about this machines capabilities. Mind you, ground balancing. There were some spots I am buggered if I could get it to balance to an acceptable level. It just wouldn't do it. I found that I was having to rebalance quite regularly, not sure if this is normal for all machines? I am sure this was because of the changing ground, not the machine. I will tell you now a bull ants nest goes off. I think it is because of all the iron stone? Maybe someone can shed light on that?

There was one area that I was having heaps of noise with the TDI and had a go on the SPP that the daughter was swinging. I have to say the SPP was definately quiter than the TDI in this area and a hell of a lot easier to use. I had an 8x6 sadie on the TDI and a 12x7 on the SPP (both Nugget Finder coils). Ground balancing is not a hard concept, however the TDI appeared to struggle in some spots and needed continual checking/adjusting.

I had no real issue with ground balancing with the NF 8x6 Sadie, even in area's of very high mineralisation (basalt and ironstone riddled hills). As Zuke_Lynzy said, flicking it into low probably would have solved the problem, and I had to do this myself once or twice at Nundle after which the threshold was nice and smooth.

I have been having the same issues as Dogmatic. I'm in the Central Victoria Goldfields and the ground can be quiet one minute, noisy the next. Thanks for that video Nugget, an interesting and informative viewing. Regarding what Zuke said, I have flicked my detector into low and it basically cancels out the noise and allows a nice smooth threshold.

I'm tempted to use low more often but does this sacrifice sensitivity at all, or just basically cancel out high Conductivity targets?

Also I'm using a NF 12X&7 Advantage coil and the 12" Spider coil my TDI came with.

I switched to the 12" yesterday running the TDI in "all" for comparison. It was a lot quiter on the same ground than the NF coil.

I'm tempted to give the 12" more swing time, so far it has been able to detect a bird shot pellet at about two inches which to me seems quite sensitive for a large coil.

 

[KarlS]

Won't the voltage be regulated within the machine? How would more voltage give more depth if its ran through a regulator?
I.e if you use 8 x 1.2v batteries @ 9.6v & the machine is regulated @ say 8v then using 8 x 1.5v batteries @ 12v the machine would still be regulated @ 8v?
From what the Whites forum is saying all of the TDI machines are regulated but at what voltage I'm not sure?

Voltage in TDI, SPP is not regulated in any way. Of course there is regulator for microprocessor as on any other detector using one. Acocording reply to email to White's , maximum working voltage is 18 Volts. If you exceed this something may start smoking. There is not any safety regulator on board. However , the SPP got some 16 volt rated capacitors on board, so it would no be wise to supply it with voltage in excess of 16 Volts. Don't know about caps in TDI, haven't had chance to look inside.
Karl

 

[KarlS]

No Because the Machine is Regulated to except The Higher limit of 16.0 Volts, Because Whites Built in this Safety Factor because the Voltage Varies so Much between Battery Brands IE for NiMh they Quote 9.6 when in fact its about 11.2 to 11.6 and when you put DuraCells in the Dry Pack you have 1.67v x 8 = 13.36 So they Had the foresight to Give it a Limit of 16.0 volts and Using the Energizer Lithium you get 1.8261 Volts x 8 = 14.6088 volts and don't forget about half a volt will drop off that in the first hour as the Power reserves evens out,

Also if you use Energizer Lithium They Will Not Leak and Have a Shelf Life of 10 Years, So if you chuck a set in ya back pack they will be good as new 10 years from now, as Many blokes on the shooting forums found out the hard way using Duracell and Normal Energizer Batteries with them leaking in expensive electronic Gear, Yes they Cost But Boy do they last and they will last up to 10 Times Longer than the Other Two I mentioned here and they resist extreme cold about -20 and +50/60*c ,,,Ok

hope this helps.

There is no voltage regulator on those 3 PI detectors.
Karl

 

[Ridge Runner]

yes KarlS, they said on the Whites forum and a few others that it was 16.0 volts and on others they Quote 18.0 volt. got me beat, but it give you room to try different things Aye,

 

[Reg]

Hi Goldfield Joe,

The Conductivity switch only shuts off the high or low conductivity signal. The way the TDI series works is when the target signal is analyzed at the point where the GB takes place, the signal is then split into either high or low conductive signals but not both. However there are two channels that are amplified, the high and the low conductor signals. So, if the target is a high conductor, then when in all, the high conductor target signal is amplified and the noise in the low conductor channel is also amplified and added to the high conductor signal. So, when in all, you are simply adding the target signal to the noise in the other channel.

Select high conductor only and you shut off the low conductor noise. Select the low conductor mode and you select low conductor signals and shut off the high conductor noise.

So, what is a low conductor when it comes to gold? Well, that depends upon the gold. Pure solid gold can go from a low conductor to a high conductor at or near a 1/4 +oz nugget. Gold that is less pure may stay a low conductor even at an oz or more. So, it depends upon the gold itself. If looking for small gold, then the logical selection would be the low conductor mode.

Experiment with the low conductor mode along with shifting the GB setting and you can change just what size gold changes from low conductor to high conductor.

Tweak the GB and you can minimize any ground signals when in the low conductor mode. Keep in mind the the low tone is ignored in low conductor mode, so if you tweak the GB a little past perfect GB, the ground signal will be a low tone and will be ignored. A similar condition exists when using the high conductor mode in the fact that high tones are ignored, so the ground signal can be ignored if it goes positive.

Leave the GB at normal of about 8 or 9 and most iron junk of any size is a low tone (high conductor), so searching in low conductor will allow you to ignore a lot of iron junk. Tweak the GB back to 6 or 7 where you can and you can still ignore most iron junk but increase the size of gold that will be detected up to over a half oz or larger in many places.

So, there are lots of things that can be done if the conductor switch is installed. If it isn't there, you can listen to the signals and try to determine high from low tones. This borders on impossible on very weak signals. Both high and low tone weak signals sound about the same.

Reg

PS: Remember basalt normally generates a low tone but when the signal is weak, it is impossible to tell just what tone it is. Use the low conductor mode and most basalt will be ignored if ground balanced to normal ground.

 

[Reg]

The question of regulators appears to be confusing so I will try to explain a little more about the TDI (and SL series)and how it works. First, there is no regulator on the main voltage power supply. So, if 16V is used, that voltage is applied to the FET and associated circuitry on the TDI and also to the audio on the SL. On the TDI, there is a 10V regulator for the audio.

There is a +5 and -5V regulators for the power supplies and a separate -5V for the microprocessor.

The +5V is created so there isn't a whole lot of extra current available. I mention this in case someone has some ideas of adding a lot of circuitry.

There is a schematic of the GS 5 on the Geotech1 forum and the TDI circuitry is quite similar. The original 200 TDI's were almost a duplicate of this circuitry. For those wanting to look at the GS 5 circuit, do a search for GS V or Goldscan 5 on the Geotech forum. Search down though the lists for the GS5 pdf.

Reg