So I went highbanking today.....

[AussieChris]

Hey guys, went out to Coles Bridge, Turon River this morning. Set up the highbanker and my missus and I continued to work a pocket from yesterday that went down to either some smooth bedrock or a massive floater, either way we couldn't find the edges.

So after running for a couple of hours I looked up to see 2 rangers come bouncing down tugging on their shoulder patches telling me to turn the pump off, gesturing with the old throat slit and pointing at the pump!

I thought to myself *here we go...* as I finished the bucket I was running through my banker (Sluicy GS21) and went over turned off the pump.

They started laying into me asking me what I was doing? I said to them just running the highbanker and asked if there was a problem? They proceeded to tell me what I was doing was illegal and unconvincingly stating legislation and that I was dredging. I tried to go over the rules with them and explain I was not moving material with the pump but they would have none of it and insisted I was dredging and using mechanical means to recover gold. They told me I better brush up on the law and to call the Dubbo head office, I asked them for a card and they said they had none. I realised I was not going to make much progress with them so just took the "yes Sir, no Sir, three bags full sir" approach. They even had the hide to say they deal with "you lot" all the time!

In the end I shutdown, cleaned up the mats and tossed the cons in a bucket, did some panning for a while....then just before we left fired the banker back up and processed the last buckets of materials we had collected

I'll post some results later....

 

[bend]

I saw the other day that one of the american mining assoc's are taking some of their forest rangers to court over similar things. A lot more aggressive being as their in gunland naturally, but it makes me wonder about the chances of making an example of some of the more uneducated public servants I hear rumours about harassing people.

"yes sir, no sir..." works fine on the spot but without somehow forcing them to actually know their own regulations and defending ourselves in the appropriate systems I don't see any way that things are going to get better. The alternative is a slow progression toward Gina Rinehart being the only prospector left as far as I can see.

Fortunately I've only run into a couple and they've been well informed about the actual rules, but I've heard about a few people being told to shut down due to the public servant in question being apparently unaware of the rules, be they in regards to location or equipment . Definitely not a good thing as far as the future for prospecting goes.

 

[bend]

Just to be clear I'm talking about complaints to their superiors rather than court cases mind, preferably backed with appropriate documentation/ threats of legal action if necessary. May not be your cup of tea, but I can guarantee that if I'm told to stop pursuing a perfectly legal activity because someone doesn't know their job then they're really not going to enjoy the resultant conversation with their boss. Part of keeping our rights is to ensure that the people tasked with keeping us reined in have some idea of what they're doing after all.

 

[limpalot]

They should have identity cards or badge number, get a rego number too, a selfy with them with your phone.

 

[AussieChris]

Yeah I asked for a card and they said they had none, just pointed at the patches on their shoulders and told me to not argue lol, light blue shirt darker patch with yellow/gold edge on it? They stood about 10 metres away so could not even make out the emblem really. I was too far away from the phone to take pics etc.

 

[7.62marksman]

I was under the impression that they have to carry id and cards which have to be produced by law on request
well thats what i have been told by the rangers that i have contact with through work

 

[Eldorado]

This all sounds a bit dodgy,the aggression,no identification and why would they stand 10 meters away,why wouldn't they come right up to you and talk to you face to face.Why don't you ring the powers that be and see if anyone actually was patrolling out there.

 

[bend]

Well the second result for NSW parks uniform on google is this. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...s/news-story/176a50d9a0cbda8f3176cc01a80f6c8e so there's a good chance someone's trying their luck.
All the more reason to kick up a storm I reckon, if they're not rangers then you want the rangers/cops on their toes an figuring who they are before they try and pull the same thing with someone else. If they are rangers then they need to understand that this sort of thing isn't on, and they need to their jobs right and not hassle people who are doing the right thing

 

[AussieChris]

I'm pretty sure they were the real deal, they were just choosing to be punks. I was surprised when the more aggressive one said he didn't have a card I could have so at least when I do call their regional office I have someones name to refer to. He seemed a bit uninformed when he kept referring to the Mineral Resources Act, not Section 12 of the Mining Act 1992. He then carried on that my tailings wash would disturb the river and that local farmers will be calling them complaining the river was muddy! and also any workings that I did near the river, including panning was making too much muddy water. The Turon has just dropped about 4 or 5 inches in the last couple of weeks at that spot that's all, there is not a great deal of flow there. It only took about 15 mins to clear after I had shutdown. The highbanker was probably about 5 metres from the water, it made a little tail but nothing drastic. It's not Tony Beets dredge......and even standing down in the river panning made a mud wash, but it cleared fast.

When I questioned what part of the act says that pumps and highbankers are prohibited because they are a mechanical means to extract gold? He shut me down and told me not to argue that they have always been illegal and then told me to call the Dubbo regional office and talk to them. So I'm guessing he was talking about the Office of Environment and Heritage (OEH) in Dubbo. I did't realise that National Parks and OEH are combined? They definitely were not in National Parks uniform.

 

[HarryHoudini]

Its the law the officers must identify themselves and offer ID.
The real officers should not show aggression and know the definitions of offenses.

 

[bend]

If I understand what I've heard around the traps then highbankers are a bit of a grey area in NSW, so it may also be worth getting some advice from NAPFA on how to proceed before going farther. You don't want to interfere with their efforts on behalf of prospecting etc, and it's quite possible they can direct you to the appropriate person/department to chase the issue up with.
The website ( http://www.nationalparks.nsw.gov.au/visit-a-park/parks/Turon-National-Park ) for Turon river says the contact is the blue mountains heritage centre, I'd start there if you want to find out who was in the area on the day in an official capacity, then take that to the Dubbo office with a complaint of of refusing to provide ID, obstructing lawful behaviour etc. If you don't get any action it may be worth pushing higher, or making the situation public. I can guarantee they don't want it publicised when they're employees are doing the wrong thing, but as I said before you go that far talking to NAPFA is probably well advised.

 

[AussieChris]

Thanks for the advice bend. I'm just thinking if they harassed me yesterday, how many other have they in the past or will do in the future?

 

[7.62marksman]

I have checked and by law they must produce id on request
The ones you incounted if reported will be disciplined (yea right)

 

[AussieChris]

Just spoke to Stephen Dangaard President of The NSW & ACT Prospectors and Fossickers Association Inc (NAPFA) had a good chat, very informative person to talk to. He suggested they were overzealous Fisheries Officers pulling me up as he has had several reports of it on the Turon, a river that has 10 metre floods that roll 10 tonne boulders round like marbles.

Their main concern is water quality, they are very pedantic about turbidity, so I guess that's why they were very insistent that I was dredging. Even to the extent that panning caused water turbidity.

Might need to invest in a ghillie suit and spray my highbanker camo next time I'm back there. I have some geotextile fabric in the shed, I'll take it next time and run my tailings through it...might keep them happy, I dunno.

http://www.napfa.net/upload/NAPFA%20Sluicing%20Final%20Report%201.2.pdf

 

[bend]

Keep Stephen Dangaard in the loop as to anything you pursue then, but I'd be talking to fisheries as well if that's the case. Overzealous or not they were out of line in not meeting even the basic legal requirement to produce ID on request, let alone using an appropriate approach in dealing with a member of the public or knowing anything at all about the activity they're attempting to police.

There has to be a someone in a supervisorial position for that area who'd be very worried about their people behaving in a manner which could put the department or it's employees in the line of fire, regardless of whether or not you were contributing to water turbidity. Especially if you intend to follow through on their concerns and implement appropriate controls on your potential impact like using geo-textile fabrics.

 

[mbasko]

The Turon National Park has only a small section of the Upper Turon running through it & fossicking isn't allowed in there or other NP's in NSW at all. Don't get confused - the majority of the Turon River isn't under National Parks so they have no jurisdiction. Coles Bridge is well away from it.
You should contact the regional NSW industries office/s & let them know what happened. Theres an office in Orange & one in Dubbo. Sounds like their Rangers need some education/clarification on how to deal with the public & what different fossicking equipment is! Maybe the department does too?
Unfortunately with "significant" turbidity it isn't prescribed in NSW. The NSW Fossicking Guidelines state:

You should avoid disturbing mud, clay or fine silt that causes significant turbidity in a waterway, as this could lead to a breach of the Protection of the Environment Operations Act 1997.

In Queensland significant turbidity is prescribed as turbidity that travels more than 300m downstream of fossicking activities. That seems reasonable but in NSW it's open to the Rangers interpretation of what "significant" is.

 

[AussieChris]

Maybe 10m of wash from the banker that completely cleared in 10-15 mins as the river was a bit slow over the weekend, my missus was making more by panning.

Yeah the Natonial Park is about 30km away, over near Palmers Oaky, these guys were not National Parks, turns out they were Fisheries Officers beating their stick.

 

[bend]

Ah sorry for the misinformation then :8 , that was just the first link I found for Turon river management after a quick google (I'm in vic and don't have full knowledge of the geography of NSW). I assumed he wasn't working in an NP in any case, just the simplest starting point I could find for potentially IDing the officers in question via figuring out/approaching whoever's in charge of them.
As to the issue of turbidity I'd think that laws from other states could probably be used as a precedent when the legislation is unclear, at least as the basis for a complaint. Mind you, I'm in no way a lawyer but If I were looking to approach their supervisor with a complaint about the behaviour then I'd be trying to do it with both a precedent regarding turbidity levels and a plan to mitigate the issue at my end if possible, as this addresses the issue they've raised and focuses the spotlight on the way they've approached AussieChris.

 

[ballarat_gold]

I woulda told em to munch a fat one and kept banking. You werent doing anything wrong, wtf coulda they done. Pussies couldnt even come face to face to discuss anything, as if theyd try taking your gear.....and even then, if they had tried, and i knew i was in the right, they'd have buckleys of getting any of it.!

 

[bend]

And ended up with an assault charge, levelled by a couple of officials doing what they saw as their job?? or in court, being made an example of for people who think they can get away with working the wrong spot/wrong equipment (whether or not you were)?? They've got much deeper pockets for a court case than we do, regardless of whether or not you're in the right they can and will make your life very difficult if they think they have a reason to do so.

On the other hand, you can hit back just as hard if you do it right. be civil and pack up your shit, then go take advantage of the system they've put in place to get them reprimanded/suspended/ fired for their actions. If they look like getting away with it, you take it to civil court or you take it to the media eg.
ON CURRENT AFFAIRS TONIGHT
" NSW fisheries trying to destroy the Aussie prospecting tradition."
or
"Ballarat_gold was breaking no laws, so why are these fisheries officers stealing thousands of dollars of equipment"

The system works both ways, but only if you can hold off from decking someone.