Saving Our History - Adventures, Historical Research and Finds Needing Identification Help

[Saving Our History]

Hi everyone,
Found this a while back when I went on a camping trip a year or so ago. Went into Robe for a day trip as it was nearby to where we were.

Went for a hunt on an open public patch of land which used to be the site of an old sailors pub/tavern, which had been demolished sometime ago, with remainders of building and bits strewn across the top soil of the area. I found some bits and pieces, including my first clay pipe stems and partially complete bowls, also my first glass bottle stopper and glass bottles pieces, not complete, but enough to identify them. Some medicine bottles, some purple and some blue glass, some Eucalyptus oil bottles, and some soda bottles.

I found some old coins here and there, some interesting bits like a few .577 Snider projectiles and musket balls. And I found this odd little brass or copper composition coin or token, about the size of an AU 5c. Not sure exactly what it is, it's stumped me for ages now...

I know it's a Young (bun head) Queen Victoria portrait on the obverse (early to mid 1800's period for that portrait style), and on the reverse, it has a royal shield of some sort.

A small chunk has been taken out of it which is how I found it when I dug it up, and it has a small hole in the top which I guess could've been where a chain or small ribbon or rope went through to attach it to a bracelet or necklace ??

I doubt it would've been a brothel token for the sailors due to the royal representation on it, maybe a memorial token, special coin or medallion of some sort ??

Is anyone able to help me with some research into it?
I'm so very stumped.. been researching it for ages and I myself have not found anything similar to it.

I also found another weird little thing, with the inscription of 'Letters' and on the other side it has '1874 Patent'. It appears to be made of thick aluminum or some sort of heavy non-rusting material, brass possibly?

Images provided below:
Obverse of item

Reverse of item

Item next to a 5c

Item on a 5c

Letters Patent Item (Image #1)

Letters Patent Item (Image #2)


Any help and/or suggestions is very much appreciated!

Thanks!

Saving Our History (Kato)

 

[Flash Jack]

Same size as a five cent piece. Haven't seen one of these before. Victoria Regina with a crude hole in it to make a necklace.
The second find reminds me of a stud. Don't know though.

 

[mbasko]

I think the first one is an imitation pendant of the Great Britain Victoria (young head) Half Sovereign. At 19mm it's roughly the same size as a 5c piece & what's left of it appears to match.
https://www.coinsanduk.com/coins-pr...ears=half-sovereign-1838-1901&cat=pre-decimalPity it wasn't the real thing.

 

[Saving Our History]

I think the first one is an imitation pendant of the Great Britain Victoria (young head) Half Sovereign. At 19mm it's roughly the same size as a 5c piece & what's left of it appears to match.
https://www.coinsanduk.com/coins-pr...ears=half-sovereign-1838-1901&cat=pre-decimalPity it wasn't the real thing.

I think you're right!

It's a close enough match for the moment to be honest.
Man, so close yet so far... that's as close as I will get for the time being I think, fingers crossed the real thing will turn up one day

Thanks so much for the help!

 

[Saving Our History]

Same size as a five cent piece. Haven't seen one of these before. Victoria Regina with a crude hole in it to make a necklace.
The second find reminds me of a stud. Don't know though.

Yeah, it baffled me a bit too, I've found a large amount of Victorian coins, even farthing's and silver threepence from the time, this one stumped me because of it's size, design and material. The last item is possibly a stud, but I'm not exactly sure either, it's not like it's from any jeans or anything, a wax seal stamp top maybe? I have no idea, never seen a stud with the year on it. Thanks for the help too by the way!

 

[grubstake]

I also found another weird little thing, with the inscription of 'Letters' and on the other side it has '1874 Patent'. It appears to be made of thick aluminum or some sort of heavy non-rusting material, brass possibly?

Any help and/or suggestions is very much appreciated!

A letters patent is a very high level official document, often from the reigning monarch, giving public notice of an edict of some sort. Since this document is intended for public information, the seal is not affixed to the original copy, but is attached separately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_patent
Here's the letters patent from federation, establishing the role of the Australian Governor-general:
https://www.naa.gov.au/learn/learni...tituting-office-governor-general-australia-uk
It appears that your item could be the metal backing plate that once contained a wax seal.

 

[Hawkear]

Thinking a Victorian era sixpence. Often coins were worn as pendants for safe keeping or as charms.
The Australian sixpence and later five cents were based on the English sixpence in size so the very near match is suggestive.

 

[grubstake]

But a Queen Vicky sixpence would be sterling silver, which certainly tarnishes after long burial, but would never corrode like Kato's find.

 

[mbasko]

But a Queen Vicky sixpence would be sterling silver, which certainly tarnishes after long burial, but would never corrode like Kato's find.

Also the latin "REGINA:FID: DEF" is on the obverse of the sixpence not the reverse & it's further abbreviated to "REG: F: D".

Only a guess but appears to be a "costume" piece (likely gold tone brass) made & worn to emulate being wealthy/successful?
It's an interesting find regardless

 

[Saving Our History]

A letters patent is a very high level official document, often from the reigning monarch, giving public notice of an edict of some sort. Since this document is intended for public information, the seal is not affixed to the original copy, but is attached separately.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letters_patent
Here's the letters patent from federation, establishing the role of the Australian Governor-general:
https://www.naa.gov.au/learn/learni...tituting-office-governor-general-australia-uk
It appears that your item could be the metal backing plate that once contained a wax seal.

That's actually something I didn't consider, thought it's possible to be a wax seal stamp piece but didn't think it could be related to official documentation considering it was just a sailors inn once upon a time.

Anything is possible, thanks!

 

[Saving Our History]

Also the latin "REGINA:FID: DEF" is on the obverse of the sixpence not the reverse & it's further abbreviated to "REG: F: D".

Only a guess but appears to be a "costume" piece (likely gold tone brass) made & worn to emulate being wealthy/successful?
It's an interesting find regardless

Fair point, I think that sounds about right, especially for the period the inn would've been there. The Young Bun Head Queen Vic on the obverse makes me think it would've been produced around the 1840-1850's, and possibly, if you're right, worn as a costume piece for however long, appears to be more of a women's piece maybe?

 

[Hawkear]

The type of metal will be the key. Suggest you rub down the small fragment with fine sand paper to expose a fresh metal surface.
Then with either vinegar or bleach dab a little on the fresh surface.
If it is silver it will blacken quite quickly after 48 hours or so.

 

[grubstake]

That's actually something I didn't consider, thought it's possible to be a wax seal stamp piece but didn't think it could be related to official documentation considering it was just a sailors inn once upon a time.

Anything is possible, thanks!

Don't forget that in the horse and coach days, travel would have been much less predictable than we are used to. If the horses couldn't go any further, a coach had to stop over wherever there was shelter.

Even a sailors' inn would probably have had stabling, feed and water out the back and overnight accommodation for a government official or perhaps just a messenger carrying important documents, might have been a practical necessity from time to time.

 

[Saving Our History]

The type of metal will be the key. Suggest you rub down the small fragment with fine sand paper to expose a fresh metal surface.
Then with either vinegar or bleach dab a little on the fresh surface.
If it is silver it will blacken quite quickly after 48 hours or so.

I could try that, I'm pretty sure it's brass or some sort of that composition but I can give it a shot

 

[Saving Our History]

Don't forget that in the horse and coach days, travel would have been much less predictable than we are used to. If the horses couldn't go any further, a coach had to stop over wherever there was shelter.

Even a sailors' inn would probably have had stabling, feed and water out the back and overnight accommodation for a government official or perhaps just a messenger carrying important documents, might have been a practical necessity from time to time.

That's valid, there is still a standing heritage listed part of the inn, very nice garden's and well maintained by the owner's. I think it's privately owned and the area I was searching could've been either the smaller hut/inn or stables area, maybe even the original part of the pub, or a competitor business. It would be very cool if it was an official document stamp or something of the like

 

[Saving Our History]

Hi everyone,
Thought I may as well continue with this thread.

I have been sorting through some of my stuff today, and I have found this coin within my collection.

I've done so much research on this coin and I have absolutely no idea what it could be as it is very worn and faded.

I know for sure it is a foreign coin (not Australian), possibly French or Spanish and possibly dating back to the to early 1700's or maybe earlier ??

(Apologies for the quality of the pictures, I've tried to get the best angles and light on the coin. It's about just over the size of an AU 10c coin)

Images are below :
Side profile of the thickness of the coin.


Obverse of the coin.


Reverse of the coin.


Any help and/or suggestions is very much appreciated!

Thanks!

Saving Our History (Kato)

 

[Greg_wilson]

Have you tried a rubbing?

 

[Saving Our History]

Have you tried a rubbing?

As in rubbing a pencil over the top of it on paper? Yes I have tried that. However, it was just a mess of lead pencil as it is very smooth with no stand out details raised above the surface of the coin.

I also know it is a copper material, but as I do not know it's age and what it is, I don't really want to scratch it either. Just by the weight in my hand and corrosive material it is I have a gut feeling it is copper.

 

[Flash Jack]

If you put the photos of the coin into Photoshop and play with the light/dark/colour/etc controls it may show up some detail that Google Lens can latch onto. I tried the photos as is but Google's suggestions were nowhere near it.

 

[Norman182]

hi it’s a italian 1Grano coin of Charles II can’t make out the date but looking at 1699-1700 area