Petition to stop the proposed ban on sluicing in Victoria

[Nugget]

To be honest, this all could be just a storm in a tea cup...They want to legislate to ban something that is already banned from what I can gather...That is not to say that we shouldn't be endeavouring to enlighten them on their misconceptions in order to get them to concentrate their efforts in Government on issues that really will make a difference, rather than wasting our tax dollars on non-issues such as this.

The proposed ban is for sluicing in general, they're just using past methods to drive it. It may or may not happen but from what I can gather they're pushing pretty hard to make sure it does, all we can do is react on what we're hearing in the media etc and hope that we can make a difference.

 

[dwt]

To be honest, this all could be just a storm in a tea cup...They want to legislate to ban something that is already banned from what I can gather...That is not to say that we shouldn't be endeavouring to enlighten them on their misconceptions in order to get them to concentrate their efforts in Government on issues that really will make a difference, rather than wasting our tax dollars on non-issues such as this.

The proposed ban is for sluicing in general, they're just using past methods to drive it. It may or may not happen but from what I can gather they're pushing pretty hard to make sure it does, all we can do is react on what we're hearing in the media etc and hope that we can make a difference.

We'll said nugget

 

[Goldtarget]

To be honest, this all could be just a storm in a tea cup...They want to legislate to ban something that is already banned from what I can gather...That is not to say that we shouldn't be endeavouring to enlighten them on their misconceptions in order to get them to concentrate their efforts in Government on issues that really will make a difference, rather than wasting our tax dollars on non-issues such as this.

Just to recap for those that want a simple summation
1. The Vic government on recommendation from an independent report from the Veac is tabling legislation to allow additional areas in National parks in Victoria, but to ban the use of sluices in existing areas of the national parks we can currently prospect in. Hand tools, pans and detectors only. The amount of material that can be dug reduces to 1m cubed.
2. Misinformation on sluicing is being disseminated by various groups surrounding the use of sluices and methods of prospecting, and environmental impact, including falsifying evidence in their submissions and citing incorrect information.
3. The use of sluices in all other areas that currently are accessable outside the NPs are expected to continue. This is based on the fact it is beyond the scope of the terms of reference by the report and hopefully any legislation to be tabled in parliament.
4. The report did mention state parks and is not addressed in the government response.
5. If the legislation is passed it is subject to a review of the areas in a years time from the access being granted where further reports will be written assessing the impact on the additional areas opened up to prospecting.

So its not as dire as packing away the sluice or highbanker if it goes through, but it will take away the right to do it in places we already can. I would suggest this is the tip of the iceberg, especially in examining the Veacs position on recreational prospecting drawn from their reports conclusions. It may be a small change, but a significant one, it takes rights away that already exist, to sluice or highbank, and quantifying the amount that can be dug.

I personally can't see why they didn't just purpose to make the new areas open with the restrictions, and left the rest alone.

 

[dwt]

To be honest, this all could be just a storm in a tea cup...They want to legislate to ban something that is already banned from what I can gather...That is not to say that we shouldn't be endeavouring to enlighten them on their misconceptions in order to get them to concentrate their efforts in Government on issues that really will make a difference, rather than wasting our tax dollars on non-issues such as this.

Just to recap for those that want a simple summation
1. The Vic government on recommendation from an independent report from the Veac is tabling legislation to allow additional areas in National parks in Victoria, but to ban the use of sluices in existing areas of the national parks we can currently prospect in. Hand tools, pans and detectors only. The amount of material that can be dug reduces to 1m cubed.
2. Misinformation on sluicing is being disseminated by various groups surrounding the use of sluices and methods of prospecting.
3. The use of sluices in all other areas that currently are accessable outside the NPs are expected to continue. This is based on the fact it is beyond the scope of the terms of reference by the report and hopefully any legislation to be tabled in parliament.
4. The report did mention state parks and is not addressed in the government response.
5. If the legislation is passed it is subject to a review of the areas in a years time from the access being granted where further reports will be written assessing the impact on the additional areas opened up to prospecting.

So its not as dire as packing away the sluice or highbanker if it goes through, but it will take away the right to do it in places we already can. I would suggest this is the tip of the iceberg, especially in examining the Veacs position on recreational prospecting drawn from their reports conclusions. It may be a small change, but a significant one, it takes rights away that already exist, to sluice or highbank, and quantifying the amount that can be dug.

I personally can't see why they didn't just purpose to make the new areas open with the restrictions, and left the rest alone.

But you give them an inch!!!!!

 

[Goldtarget]

If you want to see the positive side the report did allow new areas. Unfortunately they will mostly be difficult to access, and opened seasonally as the management sees fit to do so.
Also greater access to maps that are up to date and accurate for all allowable prospecting areas is another recommendation that the government looks likely to adopt and implement, reducing the confusion that currently exists.
And lastly, my personal opinion only the report was pretty damn shaky in drawing its conclusions and the information it used. Clearly given the timeframe and available information they were pressed to provide a convincing negative assessment of prospecting activities, and could be well referenced in future disputes pertaining to restrictions on prospecting access and activities.

 

[Marked]

To be honest, this all could be just a storm in a tea cup...They want to legislate to ban something that is already banned from what I can gather...That is not to say that we shouldn't be endeavouring to enlighten them on their misconceptions in order to get them to concentrate their efforts in Government on issues that really will make a difference, rather than wasting our tax dollars on non-issues such as this.

The proposed ban is for sluicing in general, they're just using past methods to drive it. It may or may not happen but from what I can gather they're pushing pretty hard to make sure it does, all we can do is react on what we're hearing in the media etc and hope that we can make a difference.

Actually the proposed ban is for the very limited areas in National Parks that prospecting is currently allowed and any new areas that may be opened as a result of the VEAC report...Lets not get ourselves caught in a similar cycle of misinterpretation, misunderstanding and misrepresentation of the facts as the Greens seem to be doing...

I do agree that this could be the thin end of a wedge.

My point was more to suggest we need to stay calm, attempt to educate our opposition, and make a reasoned, plausible argument in our favour rather than jumping to conclusions, jumping up and down and looking like raving loonies and inviting derision onto the practiitioners of this fine hobby

I have spent the last hour or so catching up with everything that has been said on the forum on the matter, and there have been many excellent steps initiated by members, and I congratulate the majority for the level-headed fact based responses that have been made.

 

[20x]

I don't know anything bout polatics but...

Are national parks and state forests and exempted prospecting areas just labels designed to jack the costs charged to e.g big mining companys of the future...you can do what you want if you have enough money right?

As individual propectors we are just scratching the surface but are we actually stealing whats left of the gold that they want for themselves?

One day that gram a day will be a lot less but whats left will be worth a fortune.

Thinking way ahead here...maybe they are to?

tear me apart fella's :lol:

 

[Nugget]

To be honest, this all could be just a storm in a tea cup...They want to legislate to ban something that is already banned from what I can gather...That is not to say that we shouldn't be endeavouring to enlighten them on their misconceptions in order to get them to concentrate their efforts in Government on issues that really will make a difference, rather than wasting our tax dollars on non-issues such as this.

The proposed ban is for sluicing in general, they're just using past methods to drive it. It may or may not happen but from what I can gather they're pushing pretty hard to make sure it does, all we can do is react on what we're hearing in the media etc and hope that we can make a difference.

Actually the proposed ban is for the very limited areas in National Parks that prospecting is currently allowed and any new areas that may be opened as a result of the VEAC report...Lets not get ourselves caught in a similar cycle of misinterpretation, misunderstanding and misrepresentation of the facts as the Greens seem to be doing...

I do agree that this could be the thin end of a wedge.

My point was more to suggest we need to stay calm, attempt to educate our opposition, and make a reasoned, plausible argument in our favour rather than jumping to conclusions, jumping up and down and looking like raving loonies and inviting derision onto the practiitioners of this fine hobby

I have spent the last hour or so catching up with everything that has been said on the forum on the matter, and there have been many excellent steps initiated by members, and I congratulate the majority for the level-headed fact based responses that have been made.

You're right, perhaps I could have worded that better. What I was meant by that was "the proposed ban is for all forms of sluicing within National Parks". I just figured everyone already new that :lol:

On top of the proposed ban put forward by the Greens, the Victorian National Parks Association is also pushing to ban prospecting in National Parks altogether http://vnpa.org.au/page/nature-cons...p-keep-gold-prospecting-out-of-national-parks!, soon enough National Parks in Victoria could simply be off limits to prospectors.

 

[Hare_Twigga]

I think if they ban sluicing it will be similar to dredging. Google (prosecuted for dredging australia) Very little comes up.Maybe the best way to change laws is to get caught and then fight it in court? I believe most laws in this country can't really be enforced as they are most likely invalid laws to begin with. Knowledge is our greatest weapon. The first video is Definitely worth watching! so is the second one but you need a spare hour and a half...

[video=480,360]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCf0Z7cq1AY[/video]

[video=480,360]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wkMZWVAQulo[/video]

 

[Goldtarget]

As I've started in the other topic...convictions for prospectors in Vic, zero. On that issue let's keep it that way. I for one do not advocate any conduct that impedes the desired outcome or jeopardises our activity. Please do not see this as criticism, just remember we are on a public forum, Id rather as a group not be misinterpreted.

 

[Hare_Twigga]

I don't need to be reminded that this is a public forum.

 

[Hare_Twigga]

http://www.abc.net.au/news/image/2691092-3x2-940x627.jpg

Given they are claiming that flood damage in certain areas was caused by recreational prospectors I suppose the Greens would see this photo as clear and irrefutable evidence of damage done to the shoreline of Australia caused by recreational prospectors and their sluices....lol

That's almost on the scale of the damage done by the DEPI on the banks of Hawthorn Ck. I'll take some pics next time I'm out there and post them here.

 

[dwt]

To be honest, this all could be just a storm in a tea cup...They want to legislate to ban something that is already banned from what I can gather...That is not to say that we shouldn't be endeavouring to enlighten them on their misconceptions in order to get them to concentrate their efforts in Government on issues that really will make a difference, rather than wasting our tax dollars on non-issues such as this.

The proposed ban is for sluicing in general, they're just using past methods to drive it. It may or may not happen but from what I can gather they're pushing pretty hard to make sure it does, all we can do is react on what we're hearing in the media etc and hope that we can make a difference.

Actually the proposed ban is for the very limited areas in National Parks that prospecting is currently allowed and any new areas that may be opened as a result of the VEAC report...Lets not get ourselves caught in a similar cycle of misinterpretation, misunderstanding and misrepresentation of the facts as the Greens seem to be doing...

I do agree that this could be the thin end of a wedge.

My point was more to suggest we need to stay calm, attempt to educate our opposition, and make a reasoned, plausible argument in our favour rather than jumping to conclusions, jumping up and down and looking like raving loonies and inviting derision onto the practiitioners of this fine hobby

I have spent the last hour or so catching up with everything that has been said on the forum on the matter, and there have been many excellent steps initiated by members, and I congratulate the majority for the level-headed fact based responses that have been made.

You're right, perhaps I could have worded that better. What I was meant by that was "the proposed ban is for all forms of sluicing within National Parks". I just figured everyone already new that :lol:

On top of the proposed ban put forward by the Greens, the Victorian National Parks Association is also pushing to ban prospecting in National Parks altogether http://vnpa.org.au/page/nature-cons...p-keep-gold-prospecting-out-of-national-parks!, soon enough National Parks in Victoria could simply be off limits to prospectors.

I don't want every one to get caught up in the mere fact that this only relates to National Parks, from a friend on the inside of the greens ( that's right greenies we have watchers amongst you to) it is easier to ban prospecting/ recreational activities in national parks than state forests, HOWEVER it is very simple to turn a state forest into a national park, for all of those choosing to sit back and not stress about this, STOP and have a real hard think about it.....ITS ALREADY TAKING PLACE here around Bendigo with a proposed push for the WELSFORD state forest to go to a National Park, it featured a week or so ago in the Bendigo Advertiser......................the ball is rolling...... :|

 

[HeadsUp]

I don't want every one to get caught up in the mere fact that this only relates to National Parks, from a friend on the inside of the greens ( that's right greenies we have watchers amongst you to) it is easier to ban prospecting/ recreational activities in national parks than state forests, HOWEVER it is very simple to turn a state forest into a national park, for all of those choosing to sit back and not stress about this, STOP and have a real hard think about it.....ITS ALREADY TAKING PLACE here around Bendigo with a proposed push for the WELSFORD state forest to go to a National Park, it featured a week or so ago in the Bendigo Advertiser......................the ball is rolling...... :|

in case anyone missed this ........

******** if people sit back and do nothing our hobby will end up banned and every decent bit of land we currently prospect on will be locked out to us ********

This Angry Elephant will be fighting all the way to have fair rights of access and equipment priveledges retained or improved.

 

[johnb]

I have contacted Rita Bentley, President of the PMAV, they have approximately 3000 members and they will support this petition. Hopefully, this will get our numbers up

 

[Nugget]

Fantastic work johnb, that should help greatly.

 

[Goldtarget]

I don't want every one to get caught up in the mere fact that this only relates to National Parks, from a friend on the inside of the greens ( that's right greenies we have watchers amongst you to) it is easier to ban prospecting/ recreational activities in national parks than state forests, HOWEVER it is very simple to turn a state forest into a national park, for all of those choosing to sit back and not stress about this, STOP and have a real hard think about it.....ITS ALREADY TAKING PLACE here around Bendigo with a proposed push for the WELSFORD state forest to go to a National Park, it featured a week or so ago in the Bendigo Advertiser......................the ball is rolling...... :|

in case anyone missed this ........

******** if people sit back and do nothing our hobby will end up banned and every decent bit of land we currently prospect on will be locked out to us ********

This Angry Elephant will be fighting all the way to have fair rights of access and equipment priveledges retained or improved.

Excellent point mate and exactly why we must fight. As with most modern warfare it is often fought on many fronts simultaneously. We are blessed with such broad access and ability to prospect, and we must continue to pressure and examine the motives of those that are determined to undermine our efforts.
Drastic and emotive responses generally are unhelpful, clear concise reasoned opposition, lobbying and action directed appropriately will be the best way to demonstrate our point of view. The best thing to come from this encroach upon our rights is the fact we have been shown w can neither be complacent or rely upon things to continue as they have just because it always have. Our opposition shows their hand and thankfully we get an opportunity to respond. I sincerely hope the state government is listening.

 

[dwt]

Good work one and all, let's make sure we stand together, skepticism from some forum members is welcome, if you have a doubt or need more clarity on what is happening, by all means ask and we can debate/clarify it here as a united group.
I'm going to be off coms from tomorrow on for the next few weeks with work, I'll do my best to access the bosses computer when I can but it will be far and few between. If anyone needs to get in contact me don't hesitate to PM me, limited access to a computer will mean I will only be checking key sites on the forum whilst we are fighting the good fight.
Thanks again one and all......

 

[aushunter]

(Victorian Greens leader Greg Barber said the process could be very damaging to river banks and could cause untold damage to archaeological, Aboriginal and historical remains.)
Well if I understand that if any such places of interest would of been destroyed by the original diggers long ago and even if there was some so called archaeological, Aboriginal and historical remains they certainly wouldn't be within the limits of any creek where constant flooding would occur, how could one even have known such a site existed given the fact that creeks and rivers change throughout the coarse of time.
Greens please get a grip on reality, you are one party, we are many that will always pull you up on the so called crap that dribbles from ones mouth.
Get the facts right first and do your homework, most importantly wake and smell the roses.
Not happy Brad.....

 

[Guest]

I do agree that we shouldn't over react but we shouldn't be complacent either. This statement by the coalition worries me:
A Coalition spokeswoman toldThe Agethat in a bid to strike the right balance between environmental concerns and gold hunting, the state government was opening up a further eight areas to recreational prospecting. The banning of sluicing and other mechanical devices had been placed on the legislative agenda and was not yet a law, she said.

''None of that has happened yet - the bill has only been proposed and will be out in the coming months,'' she said.

Firstly the wording "other mechanical devices" leaves itself very open to interpretation. Any bill change needs to be more prescriptive in its wording. Also even if the bill only seeks to ban sluicing in these 8 new areas it will still set a precedence for blanket bans in all National/State Parks etc. To have an amendment made for 8 new areas though would also go against current Government efforts to "streamline" legislation. Seeing as though the bill hasn't been tabled for parliamentary discussion yet it will remain to be seen exactly what is in it. For mine I expect that there will be a push to include any changes as wholesale changes i.e. rather than further complicate legislation any change would possibly be pushed through to include all areas. This is why we need to be on the front foot now & not be trying to get it fixed after any bill is passed in Parliament.
The worrying thing is without those media reports this bill may have been pushed through Parliament with barely a murmur. At least now the pollies may at least have a decent look & think about it?