Loaming for Gold information and questions
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WalnLiz
Wal nLiz
Enough said about personal opinions and interpretations guys, lets all get back on track with the topic, :|
Cheers Wal.
Cheers Wal.
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Thanks Village, that is some useful info you posted above. I've got a few spots I want to check out and I think your advice is going to help me.
SWright
Steve Wright
G'Day all
Just throwing my bit in to say that both methods are correct. "Loaming for Gold" describes essentially the old timers method which is still hugely relevant in hilly country. Village described standard exploration practice of establishing a grid and taking a geochemical sample - that method can be used to search for pretty much any mineral or metal. When I was looking for copper or gold or even diamonds there are slight variations on sample size and depth of sample according to what you are looking for. The traditional loaming method will not work un-modified in flat country. Griding in hilly country is the best method, but you will end up taking more samples while the old timers methods requires more skill - there is more room to make mistakes but you will end up taking fewer sample.
Just my bit and not to outdo or show off - BSc (geology) MSc (mineral economics) Phd (structural geology and remote sensing) 30 year industry, four mine discoveries - but I can still and do learn more from experienced prospectors every time i am out there. They can show me stuff and have a knack of reading ground that no amount of sudy can replicate. On one of my earlier jobs I sampled a trench we put in in WA - gold results came back inconclusive. We were employing a local prospector. he said we did not know what we were doing. He took a pan, scaped along the trench wall and then panned it off in a 44 - result was a 3 cm tail of gold.
Araluen
Just throwing my bit in to say that both methods are correct. "Loaming for Gold" describes essentially the old timers method which is still hugely relevant in hilly country. Village described standard exploration practice of establishing a grid and taking a geochemical sample - that method can be used to search for pretty much any mineral or metal. When I was looking for copper or gold or even diamonds there are slight variations on sample size and depth of sample according to what you are looking for. The traditional loaming method will not work un-modified in flat country. Griding in hilly country is the best method, but you will end up taking more samples while the old timers methods requires more skill - there is more room to make mistakes but you will end up taking fewer sample.
Just my bit and not to outdo or show off - BSc (geology) MSc (mineral economics) Phd (structural geology and remote sensing) 30 year industry, four mine discoveries - but I can still and do learn more from experienced prospectors every time i am out there. They can show me stuff and have a knack of reading ground that no amount of sudy can replicate. On one of my earlier jobs I sampled a trench we put in in WA - gold results came back inconclusive. We were employing a local prospector. he said we did not know what we were doing. He took a pan, scaped along the trench wall and then panned it off in a 44 - result was a 3 cm tail of gold.
Araluen
BumbleB
Jason
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Mate if you have got that type/level of savvy in the Geological side of things, please share as much as you may wish to. I for one see my lack of Geological stuff as one of my greatest shortcomings in prospecting- I would love to be able to read the landscape & understand what I'm looking at. It would save me a hell of alot of time & effort. I'm all ears! 
I have been watching this post with interest for a while. I would like to say that I really appreciate people with village and swright knowledge to be present and engaging with us. Obviously you both have studied this subject in great detail and know what you are talking about. We can all learn from you so thank you for taking the time to discuss this subject. It certainly helps people like me with no formal training in geology.
Marked
Mark
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nuggetino said:
To be fair, Village was very blunt in his appraisal of the guy in the youtube vid...assuming the poster had something to do with the vid, I could see how such a response may have been made on the spur of the moment.
Regardless of various people stepping on other people's toes, there has been some excellent information shared here from which others will be able to decide on their own course of action if they so desire...thanks everyone for sharing.
Look Guys
it's up to you, you want to go about a process in a random way then accept the fact that you may just read it all wrong. The very simplified process I outlined was to provide you with a method that was systematic, which is science, to sequentially sample a larger area, refining this down, by results till you get to the area which has the highest concentration of mineral. When I say simplified, I mean simplified. The process was what less then a page. Field Method Statements for this whole process would fill a lever arch file. Prior to my retirement 12 months ago, this process in the field, I owned a Leica GPS system.
You can follow the youtube, its up to you. But ask yourself these questions.
1. Can I read strata and comprehend the processes involved.
2. Do I comprehend the likely geological time scale of the events that are evident.
3. Am I conversant with lithology.
If you can't confidently answer the questions, then the process in youtube, is a bit like getting a mystery bet at the tab.
You can and most likely will miss the best zone if you employed his methods. Want to do it, be my guest, want to be sure that your sweat is well spent, you may want to reconsider.
I'm not about to delve into resources or resumes any further. Has this process worked for me. Well I'm 48 and retired. That should just about sum it up. Have I had my own mines yes, two in fact, the second one, completed and demobilised from site in May 2011, commenced rehabilitation in September and is in it's final 6 months of it's rehabilitation plan, which in late August will be inspected by DPI and our consulting ecologists at which point the DPI will relinquish our environment bond.
You have to ask yourself this about the youtube video, if our friend is in fact a geologist and it's knowledge is working for him, would you not think that his methods and resources might be a little better if they were paying so well. Now not that he needs to be driving a Merc around the site, but unfortunately what I seen doesn't really does' t make an equation. This is not meant to be rhetorical, just a question that you might want to ask yourself before putting too higher a confidence level behind it. Not that all that glitters is gold, and I will point out, my truck is 1985 vintage Toyota, but appraise the background infrastructure and it surely must raise some questions on the success of his methods, rocky or not.
Food for thought.
it's up to you, you want to go about a process in a random way then accept the fact that you may just read it all wrong. The very simplified process I outlined was to provide you with a method that was systematic, which is science, to sequentially sample a larger area, refining this down, by results till you get to the area which has the highest concentration of mineral. When I say simplified, I mean simplified. The process was what less then a page. Field Method Statements for this whole process would fill a lever arch file. Prior to my retirement 12 months ago, this process in the field, I owned a Leica GPS system.
You can follow the youtube, its up to you. But ask yourself these questions.
1. Can I read strata and comprehend the processes involved.
2. Do I comprehend the likely geological time scale of the events that are evident.
3. Am I conversant with lithology.
If you can't confidently answer the questions, then the process in youtube, is a bit like getting a mystery bet at the tab.
You can and most likely will miss the best zone if you employed his methods. Want to do it, be my guest, want to be sure that your sweat is well spent, you may want to reconsider.
I'm not about to delve into resources or resumes any further. Has this process worked for me. Well I'm 48 and retired. That should just about sum it up. Have I had my own mines yes, two in fact, the second one, completed and demobilised from site in May 2011, commenced rehabilitation in September and is in it's final 6 months of it's rehabilitation plan, which in late August will be inspected by DPI and our consulting ecologists at which point the DPI will relinquish our environment bond.
You have to ask yourself this about the youtube video, if our friend is in fact a geologist and it's knowledge is working for him, would you not think that his methods and resources might be a little better if they were paying so well. Now not that he needs to be driving a Merc around the site, but unfortunately what I seen doesn't really does' t make an equation. This is not meant to be rhetorical, just a question that you might want to ask yourself before putting too higher a confidence level behind it. Not that all that glitters is gold, and I will point out, my truck is 1985 vintage Toyota, but appraise the background infrastructure and it surely must raise some questions on the success of his methods, rocky or not.
Food for thought.
Goldtarget
(AKA OldGT)
Personally i thank you for sharing village and much of what you have shared seems consistent to me and we all are better to have shared it. Not to cause an argument but to highlight this I've seen a similar thing happen on the gold fields once over detecting methods, in reference to ground balancing. Eventually the disagreement was settled with diagrams and a thorough explanation of techniques that had taken years to develop. Point being neither party was wrong, but one was more right. Each side probably got results but the end result varies because of the approach. Regards Gt.
slowflow
Barry
Thanks Village & SWright.
Can't answer even 1 of your questions, but will learn.
It is difficult to sort cow dunn & clay without knowledge & sometimes technically correct evades me. So much for novices.
Like the grid & was going to use tent pegs, GPS on the wish list with rod socks.
Can't answer even 1 of your questions, but will learn.
It is difficult to sort cow dunn & clay without knowledge & sometimes technically correct evades me. So much for novices.
Like the grid & was going to use tent pegs, GPS on the wish list with rod socks.
slowflow
Barry
Once samples are collected is there a best method to refine in arid areas?
Thanks
Thanks
slowflow said:
G day slow flow
That depends on your sample size and the area or number of samples, me personally
My first stage of sampling an area, is by sausage, so for each sampling point I take a sample of soil that is about a 300 x 100 x 100, good size for a pan. You can refine this down where every you have a water source. To be honest I always carry three or four sausage rolls in the truck. When I have done my desk top research for an area, I might be there somewhere close doing something else, even did it once on the way back from a wedding. I stop off and away I go, to do a 500m x 500m area at 100 m intervals, taking 25 samples takes about 90 mins. I take them home, sit down and pan them out, record the results.
If your results show colour, I would then go pack with 20l buckets and sample the same spots but take a larger sample size. The reason being that a ball park assay can be made, 20 x 20l buckets makes a yard, which you can approximate the mineral yield. 20l bucket sample I definitely take home, or where you have a large more efficient processing plant to do it, say you could use a high banker at a nearby river. just remember you need to clean the mat after each bucket.
As your samples show greater concentrations, you would want to take a larger sample size from those particular points, so much so, that you get into taking multiple samples, say 2 to 6 20l buckets from the one point. Its at this point if your in an arid zone, I would take the keene 151 dry blower with me, and process each sample point on site. Heres a tip so you don't breach laws, if you can borrow or buy a pair of spoons and take your samples from depth. Spoons make it easier to get a depth sample without moving metres of soil.
When your starting out $500 blue wheels are a lot of outlay, so hey they only achieve what a pan does but a lot quicker, but personally, nothing quiet beats the serentiy of panning with a couple of sherbets. Priceless.
hey slow flow, tent pegs, a tape and some cord, still in use today by palaeontologists, just it can limit the size of your initial search area. On the GPS johnnyappleseed.com.au has a deal going on the rhino 650, great gps, and 80 channel 5 watt uhf radio, all for what works out to be $300 per unit. great saving great unit. If you can't find someone you know who wants a good unit, to go you halves in the deal, pm, I pretty sure I want a third unit for the young bloke. The deal is two units for $599.00
WalnLiz
Wal nLiz
Hi guys, been watching this thread with interest and can't help myself but give my two bobs worth. Got to ask yourself before you get involved with all the technical side of loaming / soil sampling...." am i looking at trying to find a gold source to begin a commercial mining operation????".
This in many cases requires extensive digging and registering a claim, (not as simple as many may think), OR , am i looking at covering a small area to get the best amount of easily attainable gold from it. 99% of us on the forum are after the latter and the technical differences, in the long run, are only academic, and in my opinion not worth losing any sleep over.
Personally, I sample using both methods and couldn't give a hoot as to which is the technically correct term. I sample to get a pattern of where the gold is shedding from, with amateur prospecting in mind.....not to potentially fire up a "Tod Hoffman" operation.
In over 50 years of prospecting all over the country, have come across only three small reefs the old timers missed.....and
they didn't warrant setting up a mining claim.
Got to keep this "Loaming" in some sort of perspective....use whatever you want to call it, and concentrate on enjoying the hobby. We won't be tested on what we've "technically" achieved, and we now live in an era where nobody really cares about being politically correct.....enjoy the hunt and keep the dream alive,
Cheers Wal.
This in many cases requires extensive digging and registering a claim, (not as simple as many may think), OR , am i looking at covering a small area to get the best amount of easily attainable gold from it. 99% of us on the forum are after the latter and the technical differences, in the long run, are only academic, and in my opinion not worth losing any sleep over.
Personally, I sample using both methods and couldn't give a hoot as to which is the technically correct term. I sample to get a pattern of where the gold is shedding from, with amateur prospecting in mind.....not to potentially fire up a "Tod Hoffman" operation.
In over 50 years of prospecting all over the country, have come across only three small reefs the old timers missed.....and
they didn't warrant setting up a mining claim.
Got to keep this "Loaming" in some sort of perspective....use whatever you want to call it, and concentrate on enjoying the hobby. We won't be tested on what we've "technically" achieved, and we now live in an era where nobody really cares about being politically correct.....enjoy the hunt and keep the dream alive,
Cheers Wal.
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Most of these videos have nothing to do with loaming??
Bogie is an interesting bloke but being a geologist does not mean he knows how to mine. My missus is a geologist too, this does not mean she's an expert loamer, actually she has never even done it before.
Village has outlined a very detailed method of loaming from his own experiences and gladly shared his hard won knowledge. In my opinion you should show more respect to the people who are here and sharing there knowledge, rather then telling them they are wrong cause you seen something YouTube .
DD
Bogie is an interesting bloke but being a geologist does not mean he knows how to mine. My missus is a geologist too, this does not mean she's an expert loamer, actually she has never even done it before.
Village has outlined a very detailed method of loaming from his own experiences and gladly shared his hard won knowledge. In my opinion you should show more respect to the people who are here and sharing there knowledge, rather then telling them they are wrong cause you seen something YouTube
.DD
The point with loaming slowflow is to identify virgin ground and the viabilty of such. Ideally you utilise the process on a continual basis. So to put it in practice, you might be prospecting a site,and on your way home, you might stop and sample a prospective area. Your in NSW and they have excellent public access resources to help you along your way.
1. You do your desk top research, so utilise digs. a dpi database, you can look at an area, view past and current EL and ML reports, view physical recorded geology of the area and so on. Gives you idea what was found, how it was mined, and what the bigger guys are doing in the areas. Trust me on this, every area that has produced gold in the 150 years has had (in the last 10 years) or does have a current Exploration license over it. You will get some good information, annual reports on licenses virtually provide you with a good picture of whats happened or happening.
2. If it looks good, you might define a couple of prospects, a gps is good. Garmin units come with base camp, which allows you to plug your device into the computer, then you can access the topo maps on the computer, so good, that you can roll the map to get a 3D view of your area. If you want for about $30 year you can get birdseye, which allows you to download satellite imagery of an area, so that you have a hybrid map, comprises of sat images and all the topo information, which you can 3d roll also. You can mark your prospective area by waypoint. Sat imagery is very useful. Years ago before it was available we use to do desktop, then once I remember we spent 3 days doing resections cause when we got into the field, we found a dairy farmer had built a bloody great hay barn right over the area we wanted to drill, which unbeknown to him, he had built over the collapsed entrance to a drive that was dug back in the 50's. Couldn't believe it at the time, he used the area cause it was now flat, cause they bulldozered the area into the entrance and finished it off flat, go figure.
3. Ideally you engage the process continually, give you some idea I have at the moment 17 different areas under appraisal at the moment. Does it work on flat ground, well I would disagree with swright on that, works extremely well. I use my truck rather then walk on flat ground, and my initial search area say in the NT, would be 5kms by 5kms, with 100 or 200m intervals, cover more ground, and rule out areas quickly. Say if I was going to go down around camp ground or area close to you, I would probably drop down to an area of say 500m x 500m for initial sampling at 75 to 100m intervals.
Oh just a couple of key points,
1. if you get concentrations in your perimeter samples, immediately go back and expand your search area. The results of your perimeter samples should be a zero return, especially if the sample is on the highest elevation. Otherwise you may in fact miss the lode that is producing the mineral.
2. Don't get tunnelled vision by geological features, stay methodical. The lithology of area can tend to shadow the best spots, so stick to your plan, no matter how well you can read it.
3. Record your results, a pocket spiral notebook from officeworks costs a dollar or so, thats all you need, have a separate one for each area, and record your results no matter how disappointing or good they may be. You will refer back to these notes. A5 is best it allows you to make field sketches of your observations to support any notes you make. Might seem a little technical at first, but when you get a couple of areas on the go, it does ensure you don't mix results, from different sites.
4. A good trick that I always do, is to take sample of the soil separately, now I like Always Fresh or 333, glass jars, place a sample of the soil in the jar about 30 to 40% of its volume, the sample should ideally come from about 10 to 12" down, as this will not contain humus ( the fourth element of soil, which is only found in the top 8", and is what makes topsoil) when you get home or back to camp, fill the jar to about 90% with water, place the cap on and shake the crap out of it, till you have thoroughly mixed and suspend the sample in the water. Place the jar where it won't be disturbed for about 12 hours or overnight usually. Siphon the water from the jar without disturbing it, and leave the lid off in the sun to allow it to dry. This can take days. But when the time comes to actually getting down to the money side of things, extraction, what you have is a rudamentary soil sample segregated, most of the elements will separate into layers by the specific gravity( density). This will tell you roughly what you will expect to process, and allow you to decipher the best process for extraction. Arid areas that are dry may contain excessive levels of clay, which if you travel back to start processing after rain, may not be viable on your chosen process. Soil is comprised of three elements, clay, sand and silt. The process you utilise during extraction, largely depends on its composition. No point trying to dry blow clumped clay.
The aim of the game, is find to find your claim, the cheapest way, without expending any more cash or sweat then you have too, save that for extraction.
1. You do your desk top research, so utilise digs. a dpi database, you can look at an area, view past and current EL and ML reports, view physical recorded geology of the area and so on. Gives you idea what was found, how it was mined, and what the bigger guys are doing in the areas. Trust me on this, every area that has produced gold in the 150 years has had (in the last 10 years) or does have a current Exploration license over it. You will get some good information, annual reports on licenses virtually provide you with a good picture of whats happened or happening.
2. If it looks good, you might define a couple of prospects, a gps is good. Garmin units come with base camp, which allows you to plug your device into the computer, then you can access the topo maps on the computer, so good, that you can roll the map to get a 3D view of your area. If you want for about $30 year you can get birdseye, which allows you to download satellite imagery of an area, so that you have a hybrid map, comprises of sat images and all the topo information, which you can 3d roll also. You can mark your prospective area by waypoint. Sat imagery is very useful. Years ago before it was available we use to do desktop, then once I remember we spent 3 days doing resections cause when we got into the field, we found a dairy farmer had built a bloody great hay barn right over the area we wanted to drill, which unbeknown to him, he had built over the collapsed entrance to a drive that was dug back in the 50's. Couldn't believe it at the time, he used the area cause it was now flat, cause they bulldozered the area into the entrance and finished it off flat, go figure.
3. Ideally you engage the process continually, give you some idea I have at the moment 17 different areas under appraisal at the moment. Does it work on flat ground, well I would disagree with swright on that, works extremely well. I use my truck rather then walk on flat ground, and my initial search area say in the NT, would be 5kms by 5kms, with 100 or 200m intervals, cover more ground, and rule out areas quickly. Say if I was going to go down around camp ground or area close to you, I would probably drop down to an area of say 500m x 500m for initial sampling at 75 to 100m intervals.
Oh just a couple of key points,
1. if you get concentrations in your perimeter samples, immediately go back and expand your search area. The results of your perimeter samples should be a zero return, especially if the sample is on the highest elevation. Otherwise you may in fact miss the lode that is producing the mineral.
2. Don't get tunnelled vision by geological features, stay methodical. The lithology of area can tend to shadow the best spots, so stick to your plan, no matter how well you can read it.
3. Record your results, a pocket spiral notebook from officeworks costs a dollar or so, thats all you need, have a separate one for each area, and record your results no matter how disappointing or good they may be. You will refer back to these notes. A5 is best it allows you to make field sketches of your observations to support any notes you make. Might seem a little technical at first, but when you get a couple of areas on the go, it does ensure you don't mix results, from different sites.
4. A good trick that I always do, is to take sample of the soil separately, now I like Always Fresh or 333, glass jars, place a sample of the soil in the jar about 30 to 40% of its volume, the sample should ideally come from about 10 to 12" down, as this will not contain humus ( the fourth element of soil, which is only found in the top 8", and is what makes topsoil) when you get home or back to camp, fill the jar to about 90% with water, place the cap on and shake the crap out of it, till you have thoroughly mixed and suspend the sample in the water. Place the jar where it won't be disturbed for about 12 hours or overnight usually. Siphon the water from the jar without disturbing it, and leave the lid off in the sun to allow it to dry. This can take days. But when the time comes to actually getting down to the money side of things, extraction, what you have is a rudamentary soil sample segregated, most of the elements will separate into layers by the specific gravity( density). This will tell you roughly what you will expect to process, and allow you to decipher the best process for extraction. Arid areas that are dry may contain excessive levels of clay, which if you travel back to start processing after rain, may not be viable on your chosen process. Soil is comprised of three elements, clay, sand and silt. The process you utilise during extraction, largely depends on its composition. No point trying to dry blow clumped clay.
The aim of the game, is find to find your claim, the cheapest way, without expending any more cash or sweat then you have too, save that for extraction.
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