Lead vs Gold

[Havinago]

I see a lot of people compare a metal detectors capability of detecting lead to gold, and through my very limited experience i have found that this is not something that is a good comparison. Since starting detecting i have found a shite load of lead (but no gold) and can say from my limited experience that lead does not give the same tone/TID as Gold does, I.E Lead is a high tone/TID and GOLD is a mid tone/low to mid TID depending on purity. What are your thougths/experience on this subject seeing as though it gets quoted often that because a detector can find split shot it can find gold the same size at same depth. Personally I say call mythbusters 'Thats you lot' :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[SCROUNGER]

Every time i go out and get a signal with the sdc i call what it is before i dig it Havinago and i reckon i'm no closer to getting it correct yetwhen it comes to the screamers. I normally call those well defined higher pitched signals as being lead shot but even today two of those higher pitched signals were gold. I'm pretty confident the mellow signals are gold for sure, but as i say, i'm nowhere near confident enough (or silly enough) not to dig those higher pitched signals.

 

[Ramjet]

Firstly... there is way more lead in the ground than gold.
Lead, like gold can give off many different tones depending on size, shape, depth etc etc. I have had lead ringing up anywhere from low 40s to in the 80s.
Just my thoughts on it. Most of the lead I found in 2015. You can't see the split shot and other small pieces but the are in there.

 

[DAN77]

I think it might be more aimed at "gold detectors" that don't have a TID, it is purely up to the operator to detect the sounds that just disturb the threshold hum.So I can only assume that lead and gold "sound" very similar. Just my very inexperienced 2 bob.

 

[Havinago]

:lol: :lol: :lol: I like my sinker collection saving me heaps :lol: :lol: :lol: , But is it actually "comparable" or are we just modern alchemists with over imaginative and optimistic thoughts, Because i could easily say that my detector picks up the smallest bit of canslaw at depth so it will easily pick up the smallest bit of gold, they are what they are, they detect metal, but can it really be compared? especially when someone is trying to evaluate what they want to buy or trying to sell their particular brand

 

[yobskin]

My crap detector...zinc has same sound as gold...lead is a heart stopper...Bamp Bamp bamp....

 

[mbasko]

With PI's at least tones can be deceptive. Lead does sound similar to gold in a lot of cases. Personally I couldn't tell much if any difference on the SDC at all.
I even had a broken, warbly sound that to me was sounding like a rusty old nail or boot tack. It ended up being gold. I wouldn't trust PI tones 100% ever but there are some definitely different iron tones but like the example even they can't be trusted.
When I had a GMT I found that a very porous, prickly bit of gold could make it "grunt" like it was iron so PI's aren't the only type that can be tricked to give off incorrect tones on gold.

 

[Heatho]

Gold can be any TID on a detector, for instance from all the gold I've tested on the CTX it always has a ferrous ID of 11, 12 or 13, nearly always 12 though. The conductive numbers have ranged from 02 for a 22k gold chain all the way through to 44, 45, 46 (depending on orientation) for a high purity gold ring I found recently and any number in between. Depends on the alloy, size and shape in my opinion.

 

[Havinago]

So you think it is comparable to say my detector picks up lead shot so therefore it will pick up gold at same size and depth? I should mention that I am mainly talking about VLF's and that it is only food for thought as i noticed this gets tossed around a bit

 

[Heatho]

So you think it is comparable to say my detector picks up lead shot so therefore it will pick up gold at same size and depth? I should mention that I am mainly talking about VLF's and that it is only food for thought as i noticed this gets tossed around a bit

You bet it will. Though only in mildly mineralised ground for the small stuff.

 

[fatbellied expert]

Only reason gold sounds more mellow is because it tends to sit slightly deeper than lead.

 

[BigWave]

I can't tell the difference between shot and gold on my 4500. Recently dug a weird signal which I thought would be junk, (although no double-dip), but it was 1.7g Au in the shape of a near perfect question mark. Taught me not to assume too much. If it's a double dip and I can move it with my boot, then I leave. All else I dig!

 

[goldtruck59]

You sort of get told that if you can find / detect lead you will find gold. At least have a good chance. That's what all the pundits say.
I'll stick to that theory. I'd like a dollar for every piece of lead that I said " Its gotta be gold !!" You know that sound that makes you get a woody LOL, then Doh !!
With me its about 1 in 50 is gold to lead. I am a good lead hunter on a mission to clean up our great land !!
GT

 

[GaryO]

So you think it is comparable to say my detector picks up lead shot so therefore it will pick up gold at same size and depth? I should mention that I am mainly talking about VLF's and that it is only food for thought as i noticed this gets tossed around a bit

Also keep in mind that lead will corrode a bit and possibly give off a halo effect which will make the detector see a bigger target than what you actually dig , so a piece of gold the same actual size without a halo may not be detectable.

Gaz.

 

[Havinago]

I think this is a great discussion and is very informative, I'd like to know more about the science behind it so if there are any scientists that could chime in that would be great . So does conductivity, resistance, density and magnetic properties have anything to do with it? because as far as i can see the only similarities between the two that come close is Density and Magnetic properties. I understand that metal detectors use the change in magnetic field to determine the presence of metal but how does conductivity play a role?

 

[GaryO]

With out going right into it atm .. my understanding is the detector senses what signal it sends out compared to what is returned , so the conductivity of differant metals can change the return signal . Depending on what type of detector these diffences can be used to "try" determine the target material and size etc.

So yes conductivity does plays a part.

 

[SteelPat]

With the 7000 it also depends on the shape of the lead or gold.

Rounded gold (ie water worn) tends to be more of a 'rounded' distinct tone which is very similar to lead shot.

Whereas gold that is flat or has pointy bits on it tends to have a bit of a warble in the tone. Funny thing though is that flattened lead still is more of a solid tone.

Brass shell casings give a bit of a warble tone as well but its a more solid tone and sounds different to gold.

Also the deeper the targets, the less difference there is in tone but as you dig closer to the target you can sort of guess what it will be.

Regardless I always dig every target (unless its late in the day and the signal is small. Then I leave the small stuff for Scrounger )

 

[SteelPat]

I think this is a great discussion and is very informative, I'd like to know more about the science behind it so if there are any scientists that could chime in that would be great . So does conductivity, resistance, density and magnetic properties have anything to do with it? because as far as i can see the only similarities between the two that come close is Density and Magnetic properties. I understand that metal detectors use the change in magnetic field to determine the presence of metal but how does conductivity play a role?

This all depends on the type of detector.

Basically VLF machines have a transmit coil and a receive coil. The transmit coil sends an alternating signal into the ground. If it finds anything metallic, it induces a current in that object. The receive coil detects changes in the magnetic field caused by the electric current in that metallic object. These changes are whats used not only for basic detection but also to discriminate.

A PI machine can have both a mono coil (transmit and receive) or separate coils within the one shell. It sends a pulsed signal into the ground (this can vary in amplitude, frequency and pulse width) . The receive coil then looks for the current decay in any metallic objects in the ground. It is this decay signal that is then amplified into a tone. Unfortunately it is virtually impossible to discriminate using these decay signals. The reason PI machines excel in the goldfields is that the complex pulse train that is transmitted contains information of the ground (information that is saved when you do a ground balance) which is then removed from the received signal, therefore cancelling out the effects of ground. The same thing with EMI.

This is a pretty basic explanation but hopefully it helps you understand a little more.

 

[Havinago]

So you think it is comparable to say my detector picks up lead shot so therefore it will pick up gold at same size and depth? I should mention that I am mainly talking about VLF's and that it is only food for thought as i noticed this gets tossed around a bit

You bet it will. Though only in mildly mineralised ground for the small stuff.

Do you think there would be a point where you would pick up one deeper than the other if they were actually the same volume and shape? and if the ground was mildly mineralised?

Its just that my way of thinking is that if you would pick up one and not the other at a certain depth or mineralisation then the two metals shouldn't be compared

Edit: I sort of see some yes and no's for is it comparable

 

[GaryO]

I see your point , it would be a good experiment to try as long as the 2 items were identical .