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#26

Goldtalk Leonora
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Joined: 15 July 2015
Posts: 115
Member
07 September 2020 10:29 am

Gregupnorth wrote:

Not looking at sediment tanks at the moment but looking at settling ponds with sand bun walls between them.
There is a few unknowns until we start operating.
Also looking at new flocking agents that are none toxic if necessary. ?

I agree that WA knelson has seen better days.?

Have you had some basic Metworks done?

#27

CreviceSucker
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Joined: 24 November 2013
Posts: 783
Member
07 September 2020 01:08 pm

Goldtalk Leonora wrote:
CreviceSucker wrote:
Gregupnorth wrote:
CreviceSucker wrote:
Goldtalk Leonora wrote:

I would look at this from the reverse.....what mesh size are you classifying to? What kind of water are you running? What size gold are you trying to capture? What sort of TPH are you running?

The answer will be pretty straight forward.....knudson if your running recirc water and if you have plenty of clean water and your chasing smalls then a Nelson will do the best job.

do you know who the bloke is in WA that is making the Knudson copies ?

Some people quote $ 35,000 for a genuine one

The bloke in WA that makes the knudson copies advertises them on the mining graveyard site under processing and then click Concentrators and jigs
l see them advertised for 9500 + gst ?

Yeah thanks Greg i saw their website and spoke to staff last week , Mining Graveyard couldnt tell me if the Knudson copies have air fluid bed or not so i was hoping to talk to the horse rather than the horse trader.

Reality is if the WA guy is not using fluid / hydraulic bed then he is making "Nelson Concentrators"

Knudsons dont use/have a pressurized fluid bed...it's simply the bowl with one or two 'scrapers" that run next to the edge of the bowl to keep things fluid. Nelsons and Falcons inject water. An origional Knudson from Mineral Technologies in QLD will set you back $18k. There are two aftermarket Knudon bowl builders...one in Perth and one in Kalgoorlie....both are actually well made. The key is to look at the 'wobble' at the top edge of the bowl. The 'truer' it runs the better the recovery. Yes, you need to clean them out several times a day.....who cares? if your catching gold then I would clean them out every hour!! $9500 for a knudson copy is a fair price....and they are well made. The other thing about knudsons Vs nelsons is that the knudsons RPM is around 105...so nice and slow. Nelsons are over 1000rpm so you really need to be onto your maintenance with regards to bearings etc. Knudsons are a much better and simpler 'bush' unit. The Kalgoorlie knudsons also run a variable speed drive which is important depending on the dirt your running.

Looks like we are both confusing our Knelsons Knudsons and Nelsons.

It is the Knelson bowls that use fluid bed and higher RPM for greater G force differentials to improve stratification. ( 120 RPM on a 24" bowl is about 5 G )

The Knelsons get much higher tonnage throughput for the same size bowl.

The Knudsons only use the paddles with no fluid bed injection.

pardon my confusement.

https://www.flsmidth.com/en-gb/products … ncentrator

https://www.savonaequipment.com/en/equi … 37?s=p&p=2

#28

Mike678
Member
Joined: 21 October 2019
Posts: 286
Member
07 September 2020 01:26 pm

I think the F.L. Smith website used to have more info. on the Knelson concentrators . The smallest was 3 inch for lab use . If you are interested send me an e-mail and I will scan and send the info .


Opal from my lease .

1 user likes this post: CreviceSucker

#29

Gregupnorth
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Joined: 18 May 2014
Posts: 141
Member
07 September 2020 07:32 pm

Goldtalk Leonora wrote:
Gregupnorth wrote:

Not looking at sediment tanks at the moment but looking at settling ponds with sand bun walls between them.
There is a few unknowns until we start operating.
Also looking at new flocking agents that are none toxic if necessary. ?

I agree that WA knelson has seen better days.?

Have you had some basic Metworks done?

G’day Goldtalk
Not sure what you are meaning by metworks
I have already a alluvial wash plant consisting on a hopper and shaker deck which would need to be converted to a twin deck with a finer screen to run the Concentrator with it. cool

#30

Mike678
Member
Joined: 21 October 2019
Posts: 286
Member
07 September 2020 11:01 pm

The 3 inch Knelson will take up to 3 m.m. material .

Non toxic flocking agents have been around for ages , they are used in water treatment plants . But of course they are more expensive ...

Last edited by Mike678 (07 September 2020 11:04 pm)


Opal from my lease .

1 user likes this post: CreviceSucker

#31

Goldtalk Leonora
Member
Joined: 15 July 2015
Posts: 115
Member
08 September 2020 09:28 am

Gregupnorth wrote:
Goldtalk Leonora wrote:
Gregupnorth wrote:

Not looking at sediment tanks at the moment but looking at settling ponds with sand bun walls between them.
There is a few unknowns until we start operating.
Also looking at new flocking agents that are none toxic if necessary. ?

I agree that WA knelson has seen better days.?

Have you had some basic Metworks done?

G’day Goldtalk
Not sure what you are meaning by metworks
I have already a alluvial wash plant consisting on a hopper and shaker deck which would need to be converted to a twin deck with a finer screen to run the Concentrator with it. cool

Metallurgical works (not sure if my spelling is right?).... we run metworks particularly when dealing with ore so we can understand the best recovery methods and the grinding fractions required to release the gold to an economic barrier. Even with alluvials, we need to understand what it is we are chasing and that will determine how we catch it. If it's all coarse and no fines then that will be one style of plant....if there is no 'smalls' then you dont even need a concentrator....the prob with alluvial's is that they vary...but you can get an idea of the average your trying to capture and build your plant to suit. I see it regularly here in the West with dryblowers....using old units from the 80's that are economic on 2-3GPT dirt we had back then but fail miserably on the grades we run today. Setting up a plant is the easy part....it's the sampling and homework that will make or break a project in my opinion.Either way...it beats working for a living!!

#32

Gregupnorth
Member
Joined: 18 May 2014
Posts: 141
Member
08 September 2020 03:40 pm

Hi Goldtalk
You are 100% correct in saying you need to sample and do your homework.
Before applying for the lease l held the EPM over the area and taken many samples in a grid.
Then put them over a shaker table and with the help of a analytical laboratory determined the grade.
It is very fine but the gold is there.
Other miners and geo,s strongly recommend the knelson and a 12” would be ideal so I would be keen to have a chat about the one you have.
Anyway I appreciate your input and the knowledge you Crevice Sucker and Mike have

Cheers Greg cool

Last edited by Gregupnorth (08 September 2020 03:41 pm)

#33

Mike678
Member
Joined: 21 October 2019
Posts: 286
Member
08 September 2020 04:18 pm

I worked as a fitter for Metcon Labs. - Ammtec - ALS in Sydney .

We had a 3inch Knelson and a Falcon 4 inch ? The Falcon was not used much . The Knelson was used on samples so that the company could decide to buy larger ones for the plant .

Before that I worked for Warman R&D we were doing a lot of fire assay for gold .

If you send your cons. down a sluice or blue bowl you only have a g. force of one. If you put them in a spinning bowl , you have a lot more g. force. Think about it which is better ???
.

Last edited by Mike678 (08 September 2020 04:25 pm)


Opal from my lease .

#34

Goldtalk Leonora
Member
Joined: 15 July 2015
Posts: 115
Member
09 September 2020 10:24 am

Gregupnorth wrote:

Hi Goldtalk
You are 100% correct in saying you need to sample and do your homework.
Before applying for the lease l held the EPM over the area and taken many samples in a grid.
Then put them over a shaker table and with the help of a analytical laboratory determined the grade.
It is very fine but the gold is there.
Other miners and geo,s strongly recommend the knelson and a 12” would be ideal so I would be keen to have a chat about the one you have.
Anyway I appreciate your input and the knowledge you Crevice Sucker and Mike have

Cheers Greg cool

Fines are a pain in the arse.....smaller it is...harder it is....sounds like good classification will be an important factor? The good side of that is if you only need to run a small fraction through your concentrator then your actual through put increases through the roof. If it's fine gold your chasing then a concentrator will prob be the go.

I have a ridgy didge 12" Nelson...it needs to be rebuilt...nothing too hard as far as I can see....I intend doing it myself but time is my enemy! Bowl looks ok...it needs to be stripped down...sand blasted.....metal work....new motor/electrics...new bearings etc...prob an ounce of parts and labour. I would sell it for 5k firm....then you would have freight from WA....if I rebuild it its 10-15k easy.
Have you asked around your area to see if anyone will hire one to you? A fella over here has hired out Knudsons for a couple of hundred a week...that could be a good way to run you bulk samples???

#35

Gregupnorth
Member
Joined: 18 May 2014
Posts: 141
Member
09 September 2020 03:09 pm

Hi Goldtalk
The sampling’s phase is done. Have all the approvals But now just trying to get passed native title and pastoral lease compensations.
I will be keen to talk to you about the knelson.. I will send you a PM ?

#36

Goldtalk Leonora
Member
Joined: 15 July 2015
Posts: 115
Member
09 September 2020 03:33 pm

Gregupnorth wrote:

Hi Goldtalk
The sampling’s phase is done. Have all the approvals But now just trying to get passed native title and pastoral lease compensations.
I will be keen to talk to you about the knelson.. I will send you a PM ?

Just send me an email Greg...google Goldtalk Leonora......and I can send you some pics etc...dont you just love it when it's nothing but dollars going out the door!

Then....if you do get going...people only see the clean ups!!

#37

Nightjar
Member
From: Waikiki, WA
Joined: 26 September 2013
Posts: 1,780
Member
09 September 2020 07:48 pm

Does anyone know of any company using an Electrostatic Gold Separator in their process plant.
Worked a number of years with a Mineral Sands processing plant where Rutile & Zircon was extracted with these machines.
Did a google and there has been a patent taken out for a gold separator.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3013662A/en


Happy Hunting, Nightjar.

#38

CreviceSucker
Member
Joined: 24 November 2013
Posts: 783
Member
09 September 2020 10:48 pm

Nightjar wrote:

Does anyone know of any company using an Electrostatic Gold Separator in their process plant.
Worked a number of years with a Mineral Sands processing plant where Rutile & Zircon was extracted with these machines.
Did a google and there has been a patent taken out for a gold separator.

https://patents.google.com/patent/US3013662A/en

I didn’t see electrostatics used with Gold but if anyone does Mineral Technologies would be the first ones to ask.

Your mineral sands job wasn’t at Tomago NSW by any chance ?

#39

Nightjar
Member
From: Waikiki, WA
Joined: 26 September 2013
Posts: 1,780
Member
09 September 2020 11:24 pm

CS, There is a mention:
3,013,662 ELECTRGSTATIC SEPARATGR Charies A. Phillips, Delia, Alberta, Canada Filed June 12, 1959, Ser. No. 81?,862 Gaines priority, application Canada Apr. 16, 1959 6 Claims. (Cl. 209-429) This invention relates to a method and a device for separating the components of a mixture of solid materials. In particular, the invention relates to an electrostatic method device for separating finely divided gold from the sand and gravel of placer deposits.

Did visit the Mineral Sands companies along the NSW coast. My time was Maintenance Supervisor with Jennings Mining (early 70's) at the process plant in Geraldton, the mine was at Eneabba.


Happy Hunting, Nightjar.

2 users like this post: CreviceSucker, EVIE/BEE

#40

Mike678
Member
Joined: 21 October 2019
Posts: 286
Member
10 September 2020 11:03 am

Warman used to make them under license from Carpco ? USA. They were mainly lab sized units . There is a lab in Gosford NSW that might have one for test purposes . I can find more details if you want .

I am still in contact with my old boss , he knows all about those machines .

Last edited by Mike678 (10 September 2020 11:04 am)


Opal from my lease .

#41

Goldtalk Leonora
Member
Joined: 15 July 2015
Posts: 115
Member
10 September 2020 11:54 am

Mike678 wrote:

Warman used to make them under license from Carpco ? USA. They were mainly lab sized units . There is a lab in Gosford NSW that might have one for test purposes . I can find more details if you want .

I am still in contact with my old boss , he knows all about those machines .

That would be very interesting.....only heard of electrostatic be used in a dry plant.....material was run over a 'charged' belt that grabbed a hold of the gold....interesting concept....dont know if it worked?

#42

CreviceSucker
Member
Joined: 24 November 2013
Posts: 783
Member
10 September 2020 11:59 pm

Goldtalk Leonora wrote:
Mike678 wrote:

Warman used to make them under license from Carpco ? USA. They were mainly lab sized units . There is a lab in Gosford NSW that might have one for test purposes . I can find more details if you want .

I am still in contact with my old boss , he knows all about those machines .

That would be very interesting.....only heard of electrostatic be used in a dry plant.....material was run over a 'charged' belt that grabbed a hold of the gold....interesting concept....dont know if it worked?

I worked on the first pilot plant which used 4 mature women wearing fishnet stockings who sat on nylon upholstered bondage chairs we rented from an S & M club up the cross.

They had to rub their asss back and forth on the chair while keeping one finger touched lightly on the particulate collection belt.

It worked okay except when the sparks from the belt set fire to Amber’s nail polish one day during testing and we could never get rid of the smell of burnt fingernails afterwards.

In hindsight I know where we went wrong , we should have used an odd number of women because the even number probably caused harmonic resonance to increase beyond the ability of the moisture in the air to dissipate the electrostatic charge.

Simple really

angel

Last edited by CreviceSucker (11 September 2020 12:00 am)

4 users like this post: Goldtalk Leonora, wiley coyote, jethro, Gregupnorth

#43

mrjunkalot
Newbie
Joined: 29 March 2019
Posts: 3
Newbie
28 September 2020 06:53 pm

Hi Greg up north,
I have owned and used a cvd100 Flexicone for several years and think very highly of the products albeit a bit roughly made in parts.
I process spent alluvial gold concentrates and get gold so fine that my Gemini table won’t even concentrate it. My guess on size -74 micron. I’ve also used it on our beach black sands with some success and in fact own the next model up cvd 170 which I’ve used for a comparison study vs traditional black sand tables and increased recovery by approx 40%I use the cvd models as playing with other valuable heavy mineral recovery.
One should not see them as a panacea for all recovery or one size fits all but part of your gold recovery Arsenal.
Hope this helps.
Ps. I screen to 1.5mm for these machines and use a simple sluice for the larger fraction.

#44

EVIE/BEE
Member
From: 6383, WA
Joined: 16 November 2018
Posts: 548
Member
02 October 2020 04:14 pm

I have always liked these cones, have seen much bigger ones set up on small operations.

https://bunburyplastics.com.au/the-mineralgold-cone/

#45

Gregupnorth
Member
Joined: 18 May 2014
Posts: 141
Member
14 October 2020 11:29 am

mrjunkalot wrote:

Hi Greg up north,
I have owned and used a cvd100 Flexicone for several years and think very highly of the products albeit a bit roughly made in parts.
I process spent alluvial gold concentrates and get gold so fine that my Gemini table won’t even concentrate it. My guess on size -74 micron. I’ve also used it on our beach black sands with some success and in fact own the next model up cvd 170 which I’ve used for a comparison study vs traditional black sand tables and increased recovery by approx 40%I use the cvd models as playing with other valuable heavy mineral recovery.
One should not see them as a panacea for all recovery or one size fits all but part of your gold recovery Arsenal.
Hope this helps.
Ps. I screen to 1.5mm for these machines and use a simple sluice for the larger fraction.

Hi Mrjunkalot
What you have written is very interesting as your the first to say you are using one with good success.
When you stop and think about how they work to keep a fluid bed is quite a good idea and should work.
The idea of a spinning flexible cone with riffles with rollers would make a pulsating effect thus keeping the bottom of the riffle fluid and not pack up .
The knelson, falcon and icon Concentrators use a method by having a water jacket behind the cone and through small holes inject water to make a counter pressure against the g forces on the spinning cone creating a fluid bed and stopping the riffles packing up.
The Knelson ect new are more them five times the price of a flexicone and the flexicone claims to have a better finer gold recovery rate.
So that’s why I asked if anyone has used one as I could not get much information from the dealer that sells them.
It would be good to see if anyone is using one on a commercial wash plant
.
Cheers Greg cool


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