You are not logged in.

  • Register to access all forum features  

#1

OldGT
Member
Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 525
Member
09 October 2018 11:31 pm

I'll cut right to the chase, out today with commander 11 mono in a place I'd usually go solely with the DD. Successfully picked up some deep lead but struggled with noise issues, regular culprits, orange domes, charcoal, and extra noisy ground (heavy ironstone and mineralisation).

In order of change what would you guys adjust? If it helps I usually detect in fixed and GB to one side but wondered if adjustments in tracking might be something else to consider. I've done it to death in DD and looking for something usable with the mono.

Cheers

#2

OldGT
Member
Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 525
Member
10 October 2018 08:37 am

Found what I was looking for. Will try specific GB and see how it goes.

#3

Dignit
Member
From: Melb Eastern Suburbs, VIC
Joined: 15 May 2015
Posts: 1,413
Member
10 October 2018 09:39 am

Hi OldGT
This is one of the biggest 'how to' questions in detecting in the highly mineralised Vic GT. I've spent many hours pondering the matter, re-reading the user manual over and over again, listening to others, and trialling different settings. This is what I've come up with to date, but I'm open to anyone offering up other suggestions. I'm still learning and no expert. But think it's a great topic and I'll look forward to seeing what others think.
I perceive this matter in terms of what to do as mineralisation gets worse. What settings do you change as it gets worse?

This is what I enable in stages and in order of increasing ground mineralisation.
Reduce Rx and Sensitivity set relative to Rx, 1 under where audio response starts to chatter
Quiet Audio
Sensitive Smooth
Reduce Target Volume and Reduce Signal level
Medium Tracking or in extreme situations fast
Lift the coil 10 to 20mm off the ground
All these things are discussed in the User Manual relative to high mineralised ground.
I've played with all these in different combinations. It's good to play with a buried test nugget so you get a better sense of what the impact is.
It's a matter of adjusting these things to suit the area.
In the most extreme mineralisation I find the combination of Sensitive Smooth, Quiet Audio, Reduced Target Volume, Reduced Signal and Fast Auto Tracking all together works very well but you loose some depth. I've been told not to use them together. However for me it works amazingly well on smaller shallow targets in extreme mineralised ground which you do come across in the Vic GT. I certainly wouldn't use this combo if looking for larger deeper gold. I restrict it for shallow small gold.
I suggest you or anyone test this staged process for yourself to confirm performance in your own mind.
Good luck and let us all know how it goes.
P.S Last time out I tried Specific Ground Balance but didn't notice a discernible difference. I'd by interested to hear how you find it.
Cheers Andy


GPX 4500, pick, Jeep Cherokee and gold fever

1 user likes this post: StoneTheCrows

#4

OldGT
Member
Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 525
Member
10 October 2018 10:34 am

Thanks Andy. It was your original specific question in an old thread that I read. I've just been out to a relatively quiet area I've had success on and tried this method. Although no discernible difference I did pick up 7 targets both shallow and deep (no gold) that I had missed before even with the overhead flight interference so it may be coincidental, or may be helping.

I'll be out for the next few hours and will report any significant improvement. I'm of the opinion that more difficult ground might be worth trying to conquer to add more to the tally. Cheers

1 user likes this post: Diablo

#5

Nuggetbuster
Member
Joined: 20 October 2014
Posts: 520
Member
10 October 2018 10:47 am

Probably most importantly, which timing were you in?

For mineralised ground with a mono coil, I'd want to be in "Enhance" or "Sensitive Smooth"

Just asking because as you've been running a DD, you've probably been in "Normal" timing

Last edited by Nuggetbuster (10 October 2018 10:49 am)

#6

OldGT
Member
Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 525
Member
10 October 2018 11:25 pm

Yeah cheers mate I had tried both. In the end I just conceded to switch to quiet which ran the most stable. in this area I just have to concede and find middle ground between stability and depth/target response.

If anything I felt specific GB made it more erratic rather than less.

For most of the day I found switching to quiet, sensitive smooth, med tracking and fixed got me through most of the ground I was working without giving too much away in performance and trialing a few small adjustments here and there. Just switching to quiet was at least 70% of the change needed to make the ground workable. Got a few targets I'd missed, but as is usual I lost interest after about 4 hours (2×2hrs) with the last half an hour with consistent emi interference.

No luck on the gold front but work has been delayed for another day so I'm heading out fresh in the morning to try elsewhere.

Last edited by OldGT (10 October 2018 11:26 pm)

#7

Dignit
Member
From: Melb Eastern Suburbs, VIC
Joined: 15 May 2015
Posts: 1,413
Member
10 October 2018 11:46 pm

Good luck tomorrow.


GPX 4500, pick, Jeep Cherokee and gold fever

#8

Baldy
Member
Joined: 09 July 2015
Posts: 485
Member
11 October 2018 09:35 pm

Just remember if you numb it right down just check it on a test piece to see if it still picks up gold..? It might be running nice and quiet, but it still has to find the yellow..Good luck..


Swinging a 4500 , 2300 .Digging a Keen 140 Dry blower, Smashing dolly pot, Laying back in a Chair..

#9

OldGT
Member
Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 525
Member
12 October 2018 06:44 pm

All good gents and thanks for all the the tips. Spent the day liberating the Bush of junk again and on heading back to the car with one pocket of fuggets and a couple small rattles. Came over a nice whisper on the way back to the car but the ground below 6 inches is like concrete. Taking a mate out to finish the dig tomorrow and see what else is around. Pulled multiple leadshot deep in places I definitely worked hard so there's steps in the right direction right there. Keeps the inspiration alive.

Still have a lot to learn but beginning to get a better hold on how to manipulate the 45 with a mono on difficult ground.

It's all ground I ran my older GP over with DDs which I did try with a large 15x12 DD and then a 14 elite, but the elite was just too unworkable no matter what I tried. The new machine is a vast improvement in performance but a steeper learning curve. Just time and confidence before I jag something worth bragging about.

Cheers again.

5 users like this post: RM Outback, mbasko, Chuky boy, ProspectorPete, Retirement Stone

#10

Dignit
Member
From: Melb Eastern Suburbs, VIC
Joined: 15 May 2015
Posts: 1,413
Member
12 October 2018 07:46 pm

The target at 6" in 'like concrete' sounds exciting. I presume the whisper is increasing in volume. Let us know how you go.
Glad you're getting the hang of it. Some days it can be a continuous battle with noise and fear of sacrificing depth for stability. I tend to oscillate on bad days ........ run quiet for a while, then noisy for fear of loss of depth, then quiet again because I just can't stand the noise, etc. I can never make up my mind. It's just a confidence thing and a preference to run smooth, but then the thought of what am I missing kicks in. I'm sure if I hit a patch, either way, I'd clean it out and then go over it the other way. But to date not had such fortune.
I wonder if other people cycle between quiet and noisy like me?
Cheers


GPX 4500, pick, Jeep Cherokee and gold fever

1 user likes this post: RM Outback

#11

RM Outback
Member
Joined: 10 March 2016
Posts: 2,729
Member
12 October 2018 09:53 pm

Yep Andy I do the same, happy to put up with a bit of noise and then tire of it and adjust to a quiet setting. Rather than operate with the thought of loosing depth I've wondered if my hearing has caused me to miss a faint signal. It seems there's always an opposite thought when we question ourselves. For me it's a confidence thing that's my problem only bought about from questioning myself due to the limited and infrequent time I'm able to spend when I get the chance. One day I will have more time and I'll keep going until I'm satisfied I've mastered the machine.

#12

OzzieAu
Member
From: Adelaide
Joined: 04 November 2014
Posts: 700
Member
12 October 2018 10:49 pm

Interesting topic here....I’m interested to know how to limit emi noise on a bad day. Does dumbing down the machine help with emi like it does with noisy ground. What adjustments would you try other than trying to find the quietest channel.

Last edited by OzzieAu (12 October 2018 10:52 pm)


Whites SPP, 12" mono and Razorback 5x10 TDI mono. Propointer, Makro Gold Racer. Gpx 5000

#13

Dignit
Member
From: Melb Eastern Suburbs, VIC
Joined: 15 May 2015
Posts: 1,413
Member
12 October 2018 11:08 pm

RM Outback wrote:

Yep Andy I do the same, happy to put up with a bit of noise and then tire of it and adjust to a quiet setting. Rather than operate with the thought of loosing depth I've wondered if my hearing has caused me to miss a faint signal. It seems there's always an opposite thought when we question ourselves. For me it's a confidence thing that's my problem only bought about from questioning myself due to the limited and infrequent time I'm able to spend when I get the chance. One day I will have more time and I'll keep going until I'm satisfied I've mastered the machine.

Glad I'm not the only one RM. Cheers


GPX 4500, pick, Jeep Cherokee and gold fever

1 user likes this post: RM Outback

#14

Dignit
Member
From: Melb Eastern Suburbs, VIC
Joined: 15 May 2015
Posts: 1,413
Member
12 October 2018 11:17 pm

OzzieAu wrote:

Interesting topic here....I’m interested to know how to limit emi noise on a bad day. Does dumbing down the machine help with emi like it does with noisy ground. What adjustments would you try other than trying to find the quietest channel.

Ozi
Other than the quietest channel as you say, the only other things I know is the smaller the coil the better for less EMI (smaller antenna), or switch to a DD and even use Cancel Mode on a DD. I look forward to also hearing any other ways to cut EMI. Cheers


GPX 4500, pick, Jeep Cherokee and gold fever

1 user likes this post: OzzieAu

#15

old hand
Member
From: golden triangle
Joined: 26 July 2014
Posts: 1,216
Member
13 October 2018 07:09 am

The stab, gb, target vol all can make the detector noisier on certain ground ,But the way some people swing the coil does not help ,I often take people out to help them with their detectors, at times I have noticed there detector will be noise when where we are detecting the detector should relatively stable,do not take to big a sweep with the coil a big sweep can alter the coil height at the ends of the sweep altering the ground balance you do not have to lift the coil much to alter the ground balance. When sweeping low just toughing the ground [not like a rake]and a slow steady swing regards john big_smile


golden triangle

4 users like this post: RM Outback, ProspectorPete, OzzieAu, OldGT

#16

rockdev
Member
Joined: 05 December 2017
Posts: 74
Member
13 October 2018 12:19 pm

I was doing the same changing the settings around willy nilly, making it hotter than it should have been... I am now convinced I have found a happy medium with my 45 as I found a little .35 with the stock 11 mono using the settings below.

Coil: 11 standard mono coil.

Front Cap:
DD
Fixed
Enhance
Normal
Threshold : 1-1.30

Back Cap:
Motion: Very Slow
Rx Gain : 7
Audio : Quiet
Stabilzer : 11
Signal : 19
Target Volume : 12

Last edited by rockdev (13 October 2018 12:20 pm)


Gpx-4500, X-Terra 705, Equinox 800, Tesoro Cibola.

1 user likes this post: ProspectorPete

#17

OldGT
Member
Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 525
Member
13 October 2018 04:21 pm

No joy today, pulled a large bent iron spike from over a foot and a half deep, probably a relic from the old times. More than a little disappointment from the 2 of us digging, feels a bit like dirt fishing, that same sense of loss when you fail to land the big one. How some of these things get so deep in such difficult soils I can only guess.

2 users like this post: Retirement Stone, Dignit

#18

PhaseTech
Phase Technical
From: Adelaide, SA
Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 1,710
Phase Technical
14 October 2018 08:40 pm

OldGT wrote:

If anything I felt specific GB made it more erratic rather than less.

Specific Ground Balance is a special setting which is reserved for non-linear ground. It is not designed to remove false signals, but rather a last resort when you are having trouble performing the initial ground balance. If you have ever been in a spot where you start to ground balance and when it is almost settled, you lower the coil to the last 5mm above the ground and it goes off. You try to re-balance and the same thing happens. On the 5000, if using Fine Gold timing, the first thing I'd try is a lower Rx. If that doesn't help, then you could go back to Enhance, but if you want to try and stay in Fine Gold, this is where Specific GB should be tried.

Specific GB sets a very very precise ground balance for the spot you are balancing the coil over, so it is a lot more sensitive to ground changes, which is a bit of a negative. Depending on how variable the ground is, leaving the balance switch in Tracking can work well.

In all my time swing a 4500 and 5000, I have probably come across 6 or so areas where I have used Specific GB with success. So it's something you very rarely need to use, but once you experience how it can help things, it is a good trick to have up your sleeve.


Agent for Minelab, Nugget Finder, Nokta & Makro, Quest, Detech, SteelPhase - Phase Technical Website

3 users like this post: RM Outback, Dignit, Ded Driver

Contact Us - Privacy Policy - Terms Of Service

View Desktop Site

Top