Yep,, Fridges Again ??

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Tathradj said:
Ridge Runner, Can you keep me posted on the ARB please. ?
Still have a week to make up my mind.
40 litre to me is just too small.
47 May just tip the scales in favor of the ARB.
Apart from one post about an early version of this
fridge, I have not been able to find anything bad.
Click to expand...

Here ya go Mate, have a look at this,

Regarding the scores, The tests show how they perform but the Extra features is a major part of the outcome and another reason I decided to go with the ARB, In other tests that I have seen the Engel used 956 watts in 24 hours and the ARB used 403 watts But they were testing them beyond extreme and the fact is 3 other fridge/freezer would not start,

I love the fact that the controls are out of the way and the fact that it can hold 72 cans of coke or 2 slabs of ya favourite brew is a Bonus and that Extra 7 Litres is the difference as to what you leave behind, If you scroll down this Link they even have a radio controlled Monitor that keeps the Driver up to date with what the fridge is doing In the back of ya Truck and when you have your camp set up it can give you the info at over 30 meters away, And another thing to remember is the ARB is 17.5% Bigger inside which is almost a 5th extra space,
http://www.arb.com.au/products/fridges-camping-accessories/arb-fridge-freezers/

TESTS, http://www.arbusa.com/uploads/Newsletter/ARBmegaFridgeComparo.pdf

All Scores are out of a Possible ( 90 )

ARB 47L = 82
Bushman 35-42 = 80
Engel MT45 = 79
Explorer DC 50 = 74
National Luna Twin 50 = 78
Waeco CF 50 = 80

hope this helps, john
 
Penny just dropped. :)
The Bushman to me for power drain appears to
be the best not to mention practicality.
Decisions, decisions. :rolleyes:
 
Tathradj said:
Penny just dropped. :)
The Bushman to me for power drain appears to
be the best not to mention practicality.
Decisions, decisions. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Before you rush in to it let me find out which ones would not start in the extreme heat test and I will post it for you.

John
 
I just brings me cooler maate! :lol:" i don't need any ice fa 7day's".... ;) hehehehe :cool:
 
Ridge Runner, I'd love to know what the test conditions were, I've tested my Engel several times and always got similar results.

Fridge half full of drinks, ambient at 25C, fully charged serviceable AGM and the net average W/24hr = 600W.

Keep in mind this wasn't bench test, it was real world in situ, in the back of the 4x4 which was locked up in the Driveway, so the ambient inside was a bit over 30C. Night temp was around 15C.

Also, it was directly off the Aux battery, without solar, so the Start V was 12.8 and the next day at the end of test V = 12.4

I also tested it on a 10C (max) day and about zero C at night, the W/24 hr = <100W (just under).

The other test on a 40C day resulted in 600W from 8am to 4pm (1/3 of 24hr) I wasn't willing to run the thing without backup input for longer to maintain battery cycle life.

I've found that many published tests, done under controlled environments can be misleading, we don't used them in temperature controlled environments with stable power sources.

There are Pros and Cons with all brands re controls, internal light, battery protection, manufacturing materials, current draw, rugged design etc etc.

My first and most important criteria in any 12VDC fridge is; Is it working in the middle of nowhere, can I rely on it to keep doing that and long enough to get my monies worth from the investment.

The rest, is the semantics of personal preference.
 
Right the problem ones were Ironman ( RE- badged Waeco ) and Primus and the Powertech which is also a RE- Branded Waeco funny thing is all these machines use the same motor but it was the electronics that let them down,

john
 
condor22 said:
Ridge Runner, I'd love to know what the test conditions were, I've tested my Engel several times and always got similar results.

Fridge half full of drinks, ambient at 25C, fully charged serviceable AGM and the net average W/24hr = 600W.

Keep in mind this wasn't bench test, it was real world in situ, in the back of the 4x4 which was locked up in the Driveway, so the ambient inside was a bit over 30C. Night temp was around 15C.

Also, it was directly off the Aux battery, without solar, so the Start V was 12.8 and the next day at the end of test V = 12.4

I also tested it on a 10C (max) day and about zero C at night, the W/24 hr = <100W (just under).

The other test on a 40C day resulted in 600W from 8am to 4pm (1/3 of 24hr) I wasn't willing to run the thing without backup input for longer to maintain battery cycle life.

I've found that many published tests, done under controlled environments can be misleading, we don't used them in temperature controlled environments with stable power sources.

There are Pros and Cons with all brands re controls, internal light, battery protection, manufacturing materials, current draw, rugged design etc etc.

My first and most important criteria in any 12VDC fridge is; Is it working in the middle of nowhere, can I rely on it to keep doing that and long enough to get my monies worth from the investment.

The rest, is the semantics of personal preference.
Click to expand...

I agree, They tested them in 35*c and 55*c,

but I pick the one that could do the job and that was made for the job and had the features that are useful, Personally Engel is the King of Fridges as far as I am concerned, But the ARB is just as good but it has a few modern Tweaks that are a real Bonus and the power (Amps) consumption is also what made me choose it and it has the Extra space. Because the Engel hold 58 cans of coke and the ARB holds 72, that's 14 more and I got a wicked deal as well, So I am going to order the 78 litre as well.

At one point I was going to buy the National Luna but they eat Power like crazy but they cost about $2000-$2500 and they perform worse,

John
 
I am now running 50/50 for either
an ARB 47 or Bushman.
Big factor for me is power usage.

Ridge Runner said:
Tathradj said:
Penny just dropped. :)
The Bushman to me for power drain appears to
be the best not to mention practicality.
Decisions, decisions. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Before you rush in to it let me find out which ones would not start in the extreme heat test and I will post it for you.

John
Click to expand...
 
Tathradj said:
I am now running 50/50 for either
an ARB 47 or Bushman.
Big factor for me is power usage.

Ridge Runner said:
Tathradj said:
Penny just dropped. :)
The Bushman to me for power drain appears to
be the best not to mention practicality.
Decisions, decisions. :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Before you rush in to it let me find out which ones would not start in the extreme heat test and I will post it for you.

John
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Well seeing a Electrolux is/was the mother of most of these companies, IE waeco etc I think that Bushman is like the older Electrolux fridges and it is similar to the Engel

In the other test I saw the ARB came up at the Top when the tested them under extreme conditions at 55*c

These are the figures in watts/Hr per day as in A 24 Hour period.
ARB 47L = 403 watts
Engel 40L= 956 watts
Ironman 50L= 502 watts
Primus 45L = 456 watts
Powertech 50L = 527 watts
waeco CFX50L = 363 watts,

John
 
I still dispute the Engel figures, that's about 80AH which has to be at least the 55C ambient rating. I would also suggest that to be fair across the board for all brands that any test should be done independently and not by one of the manufacturers. The test parameters should at least be;

  • To fill each fridge with food/drink to the same % of capacity, (realistic use)[/*]
  • Run from an identical fully charged battery,[/*]
  • Run at the same time and under the same conditions,[/*]
  • All either out of the box or all with their respective insulating bag,[/*]
  • Be of the same size, (the above have a 10lt size difference - 40 to 50 is a 25% increase, therefore different ratings to start with.)[/*]
  • Record Vmax, Vmin, Amax, Amin, AH for 24 hrs, Start V and End V, and[/*]
  • Most important - be precooled before testing and set to something like 3C (in the food safety range of 1-4C) and the temperature max min recorded to see if it holds temp.[/*]

Only then can any tests be valid. I don't know the above test parameters, but if for example the Engel held temp using 956W and the ARB did not hold temp using 403W, that information is important. I've yet to see any independent tests with sufficient data.

FYI - For each test on my Engel, I had 12 cans, it was precooled on 240VAC to 3C (stable), the Aux battery was fully charged before the Engel was switched on, the transit bag is always fitted and I also recorded all of the electrical and temp data start to finish. (due to seasonal temps the 3 tests were over a span of 6 months :) ) In other words, I wanted as much repeatability as possible and something that was correct to compare. I did not alter the setting during the tests. The colder ambient got to -2C overnight, the 25C amb. was fairly stable and the 40C amb got up to 6.4C.

Re fridge temp - I noted on near zero nights, I could turn it off, but on 40C days, it needed turning up in the day and a bit lower at night. They can be as automatic as is available, but they also still need to be checked as the weather changes.
 
Well those figures where done by Australia's Governing body Vipacs NATA and all the fridges were tested at the same time using Data Logging machines/Computers so the figure are correct,
Where other fridge switch on and off during their cycle Engel fridges are running all the time because that is the Principal how the Sawafuji motor works because it does not have a Crank/piston, they have electro-magnets which is why the numbers are so high.

John
 
condor22 said:
I still dispute the Engel figures, that's about 80AH which has to be at least the 55C ambient rating. I would also suggest that to be fair across the board for all brands that any test should be done independently and not by one of the manufacturers. The test parameters should at least be;

  • To fill each fridge with food/drink to the same % of capacity, (realistic use)[/*]
  • Run from an identical fully charged battery,[/*]
  • Run at the same time and under the same conditions,[/*]
  • All either out of the box or all with their respective insulating bag,[/*]
  • Be of the same size, (the above have a 10lt size difference - 40 to 50 is a 25% increase, therefore different ratings to start with.)[/*]
  • Record Vmax, Vmin, Amax, Amin, AH for 24 hrs, Start V and End V, and[/*]
  • Most important - be precooled before testing and set to something like 3C (in the food safety range of 1-4C) and the temperature max min recorded to see if it holds temp.[/*]

Only then can any tests be valid. I don't know the above test parameters, but if for example the Engel held temp using 956W and the ARB did not hold temp using 403W, that information is important. I've yet to see any independent tests with sufficient data.

FYI - For each test on my Engel, I had 12 cans, it was precooled on 240VAC to 3C (stable), the Aux battery was fully charged before the Engel was switched on, the transit bag is always fitted and I also recorded all of the electrical and temp data start to finish. (due to seasonal temps the 3 tests were over a span of 6 months :) ) In other words, I wanted as much repeatability as possible and something that was correct to compare. I did not alter the setting during the tests. The colder ambient got to -2C overnight, the 25C amb. was fairly stable and the 40C amb got up to 6.4C.

Re fridge temp - I noted on near zero nights, I could turn it off, but on 40C days, it needed turning up in the day and a bit lower at night. They can be as automatic as is available, but they also still need to be checked as the weather changes.
Click to expand...

Their test was a lot more Complex than what you suggest and the fridges where set up in a room where it was 55*c and a Bottle of water was bought up to room Tempreture ( @55*c ) and then the sensors were placed in the water and the bottle was placed in to the fridge and the Fridge was set to 5*c and they were all set at the same time and they measured the power that each fridge used to get the water back down to 5*c.

The reason they chose 55*c was to emulate the conditions that your fridge has to endure when in is placed in the back of your Car.

It's not me taking a pop at Engel, The Testers where pretty cruel about every fridge they tested and they deducted point all over the place for the most stupid things, so between their tests and the one I posted earlier I have learned to take them with a pinch of salt because, The thing is the Engel and the ARB are about the best of the bunch even the $2500 National Luna came short yet NASA specify National Luna yet they are very power hungry yet they are over priced and fell short even though they have a lot of insulation,

The Engel was first made as a beat all Aussie Fridge, where as the ARB fridge was bought out as an Extreme off road 4x4 fridge and modified from the lessons learned by what people did not like about the other fridges that were on the market and the only other fridge that also has some of its features is the Waeco CFX-50 yet a few folks have had issues with the waeco's, Personally I am glad I got this one now because of the extra features it has and the modern design and the fact that it use's next to nothing power wise.

john.
 
Engel every time,lower energy consumption than the rest, better built, better quality, on ALL components, better warranty,and the best 4wds use the them and always have ect ect
There is no comparison hence the price,
as MOLLY said "do yourself a favor"................................................................................... :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
 
Ryan1981 said:
Engel every time,lower energy consumption than the rest, better built, better quality, on ALL components, better warranty,and the best 4wds use the them and always have ect ect
There is no comparison hence the price,
as MOLLY said "do yourself a favor"................................................................................... :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Click to expand...

Not According to The Australian Standards Testing Department, :eek: :eek:
 
Ridge Runner said:
Ryan1981 said:
Engel every time,lower energy consumption than the rest, better built, better quality, on ALL components, better warranty,and the best 4wds use the them and always have ect ect
There is no comparison hence the price,
as MOLLY said "do yourself a favor"................................................................................... :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Click to expand...

Not According to The Australian Standards Testing Department, :eek: :eek:
Click to expand...

BLAH BLAH
I use MY Engel >>EVERY DAY.
Its never faulted/FROZEN/STUFFED UP/or drained my battery,and yet every one i now that went the other way/s. have had problems.
That is all.
ENGEL ENGEL
THAT IS ALL.................................................................... :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
 
Ryan1981 said:
Ridge Runner said:
Ryan1981 said:
Engel every time,lower energy consumption than the rest, better built, better quality, on ALL components, better warranty,and the best 4wds use the them and always have ect ect
There is no comparison hence the price,
as MOLLY said "do yourself a favor"................................................................................... :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Click to expand...

Not According to The Australian Standards Testing Department, :eek: :eek:
Click to expand...

BLAH BLAH
I use MY Engel >>EVERY DAY.
Its never faulted/FROZEN/STUFFED UP/or drained my battery,and yet every one i now that went the other way/s. have had problems.
That is all.
ENGEL ENGEL
THAT IS ALL.................................................................... :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :) :)
Click to expand...

I agree, Before ARB came along Engel was always number One, I don't think ARB are any better they are just different that's all and a bit bigger But between the TWO it is impossible to pick one over the other because they both are as good as they can be, Like I said I always wanted the Engel but the size and the features made me pick the ARB plus they are a bit more modern in their design, Personally I think the two of them are streets above the rest even the National Luna at $2500.

john
 
Time will tell.John.
My Engel is a few years old now,but if and when it bites the dust, ill let you know,{if the forums still going}
Cheers
Ryan
 
Ryan1981 said:
Time will tell.John.
My Engel is a few years old now,but if and when it bites the dust, ill let you know,{if the forums still going}
Cheers
Ryan
Click to expand...

I hope I last as long, I hope you didn't just buy it coz then I'm in with a chance of seeing the out come,lol
I'm not 21 any more :eek:

With the ARB's I have only seen one that was a problem and it had a faulty mains lead/plug, but when there is more of them out there then we will know how durable they are If I could of got one of the new Engels with the 2 push pads on the control panel I most likely would have bought it in stead but the more I looked in to the ARB the more I realized that it had the things I like, but put me in a room and ask me to choose one and I would have to walk away or buy both.

John.
 
Bought my arb 60L in 2011 and its been running faultlessly every day since new, either in the back of the truck when camping or bouncing around hills and tracks 4wdriving, then brought into the house serving as my beer fridge.. the 60L design layout is low in height and longer in length holding 3 slabs of cans comfortably which is ideal for my needs. A mate bought himself a 50L engel which is taller in height, so the contents are stacked/piled in and finds he has to constantly move the top layer of food etc to access everything at the bottom..
At the end of the day i think buying a fridge comes down to personal prefence and what suits your needs, size and power cosumption being at the top of the list when making the decsion. No matter what brand fridge it is tho i highly recommend fitting a cover/insulating bag as it definitely helps them run more efficiently.
Congrats on your new fridge mate, thats a good price you paid and im sure it will serve you well :)

Husky
 

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