Whites detectors EMI information

[Metamorphic]

Posting the below video for Ridge Runner!

I will let him explain whats going on to all those interested.

Over to you John

 

[Ridge Runner]

Thank you Meta,

What this Video shows is the new Whites TDI Pro's threshold running Flat out in the City with Cell Towers across the Road and an Underground Electric Subway Train system 8 feet under the Building I am in, This day I had constant rain and storms going over head along with Satalite Dishes on all the buildings etc etc, First off you will see The Pro Running and then the TDI SL and just to show you how bad the EMI is I fired up the MXT All Pro and turned it up to the Max also and you will see/ hear as I put my hand near it the MXT gets a big Spike of EMI, (not caused by me) and remember I am only about 3 miles from the City Centre,

As I said this is the worst the Pro runs in High or Low Con, I do have another Video filmed it the same spot where it makes no noise at all,

Thanks again Meta.

john

 

[ozziii]

Nice video. Good to see how well the Whites P.I machines handle bad EMI. I know the SPP does pretty well & should be better once I get more practice using it.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Nice video. Good to see how well the Whites P.I machines handle bad EMI. I know the SPP does pretty well & should be better once I get more practice using it.

Here is the other Video, This is how the machine runs Flat Out with High EMI Indoors with Cell Towers 60 yards away and SAT Dishes on the Buildings, and again 8 feet down is the Electric Under ground Subway system and 60 yards from the Main Road, (Without The Storm).
You will see that I did not Tune the TDI SL so you can see/hear how bad the EMI was/is. Oh and before I forget the power of the Pro is not the same either,

Good luck,,, John

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVLQ5Te_6pE&feature=youtu.be

 

[ozziii]

Hey all, need some help from you top blokes, & sheila's if there any using Whites detectors.

I've read all I can find, got help here & tried to get out bush & get a heap of practice with the SPP, got the conductivity switch, RB coil, some headphones, cable clips to make sure cable is secure & doesn't move, & using 1.5v Duracel alkaline batteries for better voltage & recently have been using a set of 1.5v Energizer Lithium batteries to see how they go, started at 14.7v, down to 13.3v after about 3 hours of use.

Anyway, one thing I seem to be having problems with is what seems like falseing, maybe EMI, I'm not sure.
I try to get the SPP running smooth as I can, ALL mode, threshold just audible, GB on arrow (8.5) & gain right up.
I then do the frequency by holding detector up & turning slowly & stopping each 1/4 turn to see where emi is coming from, then slowly adjust frequency a little at a time, maybe 2mm. I get it as good as I can & if having problems I turn gain down to 8, then 7,6 etc if needed. Once I have it running fairly smooth I do a GB, if I can't get good GB I lower gain a little, say from 8 to 6 etc, then recheck for emi & adjust frequency if needed. I normally only lower gain enough to allow me to ground balance properly & haven't taken it lower than the arrow at 5.
Once I think its all good I switch to LOW mode & start detecting, but I keep getting what seems like false signals, & signals when the coil is bumped or rubbed on sticks, stones, clumps of grass etc, & occasionally the tone changes like it might be emi, but don't know why.
Do I need to lower gain even more or is there something else I need to be doing.?
This is where I went today, a few kays from town but there is HV powerlines in the area, (top right of pic) but I have had similar problem in other area's as well so not sure whats going on & not sure what I'm doing wrong.

Thanks for any help.

 

[Ridge Runner]

G'day mate, What I do is turn the machine on and turn it right up then switch in to ALL, Then tune the frequency control, When you adjust it sometimes if you turn it more than a quarter of a mm that can be too much, When you use this control you need to sneak up on it, don't treat it like you do the other controls or you will miss the sweet spot by a mile, Once you have got it set you can GB the machine once that it done switch to Low or High if you wish (if your machine has the switch)

OR you can turn it right up and adjust the frequency roughly GB in ALL flick into Low?? and fine tune your frequency control, If it still chatters then back off the Gain by tiny amounts and try to adjust the frequency control again,

I don't under stand why it is being a pain?,, Maybe you are turn the control too far each time, Because you should be able to run that machine in the middle of the City and not have a problem,

Anyways give that ago and let us know how you get on, But remember TINY ADJUSTMENTS, ok

Good Luck,, John

 

[ozziii]

Thanks John.
It has the switch fitted, good addition that one, sounds like I'm doing most stuff pretty right apart from the frequency, I was turning the dial more when I first started but was told it only need to be turned a very small amount, I thought a small 2mm movement may have been alright but will try what you say & make smaller adjustments.
Apart from that I'm not sure what else to do.

 

[grubstake]

Is the coil cable secure against any possible movement? It might help if you could put up a pic showing the cable run.

[RR/John: I think I remember a pic you posted somewhere showing how to best secure the cable, with the first 300mm or so from the coil running straight up the shaft?)

 

[Ridge Runner]

Thanks John.
It has the switch fitted, good addition that one, sounds like I'm doing most stuff pretty right apart from the frequency, I was turning the dial more when I first started but was told it only need to be turned a very small amount, I thought a small 2mm movement may have been alright but will try what you say & make smaller adjustments.
Apart from that I'm not sure what else to do.

Remember its not like a radio dial, you must turn it a fraction and then wait for about 5 or 10 seconds and see if it settles down and keep doing that until it runs smooth or close to it and if it don't then get it as close as you can and then try dropping the gain small amounts and it sound be fine, I have never had to turn my SL Down here in the City so yours shouls work the same, ok

good luck,, John

 

[Ridge Runner]

Is the coil cable secure against any possible movement? It might help if you could put up a pic showing the cable run.

[RR/John: I think I remember a pic you posted somewhere showing how to best secure the cable, with the first 300mm or so from the coil running straight up the shaft?)

Yeah mate I did, here it is, hope this helps,

 

[Goldpick]

You will still get the odd pip coming through, though these signals are often not repeatable, hence are unlikely to be genuine targets

With my limited experience on the SPP so far, the only thing that comes to mind may be to do with the ground balancing side of things. Not sure whether your GB is being offset slightly low, which will result in high tones creeping through everytime you lift the coil and then lower it again, or maneuver over or touch objects on the ground.

One thing I did notice, as previously mentioned, is how easily the GB control can be knocked out of adjustment after intially setting everything up - really requires some rubber washers to stiffen up the control pot. Perfect ground balance is on a real knife edge on the SPP, and if the knob is even slightly moved, particularly below the perfect GB setting, it will cause the detector to sound off with occasional high tones in the all/low conductivity settings.

I had a couple of instances where I thought something was amiss, and surely enough it was a slight bump to the GB control that caused the issue. Maybe also have a play with slightly advancing the GB over the initial setting (as mentioned in the basalt topic), and see whether this improves things.

My MJ coils aren't touch sensitive when running over or hitting ground cover, hence why the GB came to mind. I could be wrong, just trying to discount some scenarios, as I certainly haven't had the same issues that you are currently experiencing.

Not sure whether you are over doing it with the frequency tuning. I was running my SPP only 300m away from a microwave/mobile tower with barely any interference, and that was without touching the frequency control. I did the 360 degree tuning, and quite frankly all I got was the odd pip from the detector, and that was pretty hard to pin down on what direction it was eminating from, even with the tower nearby. Whether the HT powerlines are a lot harder to tune out, maybe so, though you are a fair distance away

If you have what you think is a near perfect frequency tune when checking in the air, then I doubt the corresponding falsing you get on the ground would be related to EMI.

 

[ozziii]

Thanks John.
It has the switch fitted, good addition that one, sounds like I'm doing most stuff pretty right apart from the frequency, I was turning the dial more when I first started but was told it only need to be turned a very small amount, I thought a small 2mm movement may have been alright but will try what you say & make smaller adjustments.
Apart from that I'm not sure what else to do.

Remember its not like a radio dial, you must turn it a fraction and then wait for about 5 or 10 seconds and see if it settles down and keep doing that until it runs smooth or close to it and if it don't then get it as close as you can and then try dropping the gain small amounts and it sound be fine, I have never had to turn my SL Down here in the City so yours shouls work the same, ok

good luck,, John

Yep I normally wait 5-10 seconds or so before moving or making more adjustments, was just moving the dial a bit to far still, I'll try making even smaller changes tomorrow when I go back to the same area.

Thanks also Grubstake, I did have my cable wound around shaft from coil to control box but got some clips last week & now have cable running straight up the shaft to the join, then wound a few times & plugged in. The cable can't move, I have 5 clips on the bottom section with velcro & another clip & velcro holding the top section.

 

[ozziii]

You will still get the odd pip coming through, though these signals are often not repeatable, hence are unlikely to be genuine targets

With my limited experience on the SPP so far, the only thing that comes to mind may be to do with the ground balancing side of things. Not sure whether your GB is being offset slightly low, which will result in high tones creeping through everytime you lift the coil and then lower it again, or maneuver over or touch objects on the ground.

One thing I did notice, as previously mentioned, is how easily the GB control can be knocked out of adjustment after intially setting everything up - really requires some rubber washers to stiffen up the control pot. Perfect ground balance is on a real knife edge on the SPP, and if the knob is even slightly moved, particularly below the perfect GB setting, it will cause the detector to sound off with occasional high tones in the all/low conductivity settings.

I had a couple of instances where I thought something was amiss, and surely enough it was a slight bump to the GB control that caused the issue. Maybe also have a play with slightly advancing the GB over the initial setting (as mentioned in the basalt topic), and see whether this improves things.

My MJ coils aren't touch sensitive when running over or hitting ground cover, hence why the GB came to mind. I could be wrong, just trying to discount some scenarios, as I certainly haven't had the same issues that you are currently experiencing.

Not sure whether you are over doing it with the frequency tuning. I was running my SPP only 300m away from a microwave/mobile tower with barely any interference, and that was without touching the frequency control. I did the 360 degree tuning, and quite frankly all I got was the odd pip from the detector, and that was pretty hard to pin down on what direction it was eminating from, even with the tower nearby. Whether the HT powerlines are a lot harder to tune out, maybe so, though you are a fair distance away

If you have what you think is a near perfect frequency tune when checking in the air, then I doubt the corresponding falsing you get on the ground would be related to EMI.

Thanks, I'll give it another try & spend a bit more time with the GB & frequency & see how I go, I think you might be right about the frequency & GB tuning though, I'm not being careful enough & need to make smaller/finer adjustments to be more accurate.
I've been slowly trying to eliminate reasons as to why these things were happening as I thought I was tuning it alright, but like Grubstake said about the cable & with your tuning tips, the only problem really has to be me, more practice needed I think & if need be I'll drop the gain a little more as well.
Thanks again RR & Grub.

 

[ozziii]

Here's how the cable is done, I got the clips & ran it straight up the shaft after speaking to Brian from Bairnsdale Prospecting.
I ran the cable up the back of the shaft to protect it from getting hit by bushes & branches etc when in tight places.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Here's how the cable is done, I got the clips & ran it straight up the shaft after speaking to Brian from Bairnsdale Prospecting.
I ran the cable up the back of the shaft to protect it from getting hit by bushes & branches etc when in tight places.
http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii524/ozziii4/Detecting%20Stuff/12308382_10208269728523653_306473427604857871_n_zps7pkbqroq.jpg

Well that seems safe, it's good to see it done right, you would not believe some of the pictures I have seen,lol.

Good Luck.

john

 

[KarlS]

Ozie some EMI is broadband and can not be tuned out. I use 7.5 inch mono coil and 5 x 10 DD coil and both are immune to falsing when bumped. The 7 x 11 DD MJ coil gives sometimes pip when bumped hard. If the falsing happen only with RB coil and not with standart coil then the coil or cable or conect or is faulty.
I find the Ground balance adjustment easy and quick after the mods. But I must admit that I don't know if the factory mods are same as the one that Reg come up with. I have agree with Goldpick that GB knob is easy to knock out of its setting, but except reduced sensitivity it does not make any difference. I use SPP often with GB 3.5 to 4 regales of ground mineralization to detect goldies.
Karl

 

[ozziii]

Here's how the cable is done, I got the clips & ran it straight up the shaft after speaking to Brian from Bairnsdale Prospecting.
I ran the cable up the back of the shaft to protect it from getting hit by bushes & branches etc when in tight places.
http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/ii524/ozziii4/Detecting%20Stuff/12308382_10208269728523653_306473427604857871_n_zps7pkbqroq.jpg

Well that seems safe, it's good to see it done right, you would not believe some of the pictures I have seen,lol.

Good Luck.

john

Yeah I've seen a couple bad ones, lucky to be wound around the shaft twice & just hanging swaying in the breeze, but probably complete newbies with no knowledge of detector at all. I done some research well before even picking up a detector just to get us started when we got it.

 

[ozziii]

Ozie some EMI is broadband and can not be tuned out. I use 7.5 inch mono coil and 5 x 10 DD coil and both are immune to falsing when bumped. The 7 x 11 DD MJ coil gives sometimes pip when bumped hard. If the falsing happen only with RB coil and not with standart coil then the coil or cable or conect or is faulty.
I find the Ground balance adjustment easy and quick after the mods. But I must admit that I don't know if the factory mods are same as the one that Reg come up with. I have agree with Goldpick that GB knob is easy to knock out of its setting, but except reduced sensitivity it does not make any difference. I use SPP often with GB 3.5 to 4 regales of ground mineralization to detect goldies.
Karl

Thanks Karl, how do the DD coils go on the SPP compared to the mono's, from what I was told DD coils were'nt really suited to the SPP.
Talking about broadband, made me think of my phone, always have it in top shirt pocket turned on, didn't think it would effect detector because its not transmitting anything & data/internet is turned off, but would there be a chance the phone could cause problems. Will turn it off & see if anything changes.
What mods do you have done Karl, the one we have was made with the changes to fix the hiccup issue of the early versions so the only thing I done was to fit the switch.
I read the thread about basalt & the SPP with ground balance but haven't tried anything yet, will have to re-read it & give the gb a go to suit smaller gold.
When I tested the old 12" coil on the nugget we purchased, we could get a signal at 6" deep, tried with the RB coil & got a little less, although soil & weather was different so need to test them together.
Thanks for the help, its given me a bit to think about.

 

[grubstake]

Talking about broadband, made me think of my phone, always have it in top shirt pocket turned on, didn't think it would effect detector because its not transmitting anything & data/internet is turned off, but would there be a chance the phone could cause problems. Will turn it off & see if anything changes.

My understanding is that when your mobile phone is turned on it is always periodically handshaking with the network so that the the two can link immediately a call comes through for you. The network needs to know where you are for the system to work and as you move around, the network senses your change of location via the handshaking and as necessary/possible, switches to the nearest applicable transmit/receive tower to keep up with your movements.

Mobile phones are not passive devices - they chat with the network in this way unbeknownst to their owners, so this may have a bearing on your issues, Ozzii. Switching off altogether will show whether this could be causing a problem for you.

Re my earlier suggestion, that's a very secure looking cable arrangement you're using - I don't see any possible problem with it.

 

[ozziii]

Thanks for pointing that out Karl, it never crossed my mind that there would still be some type of communication between phone & network but what you say makes sense, I just had it on incase someone was trying to contact me but I'll turn it off from now on, even if the phone communication isn't causing a problem just the electrical field around it may have an effect, if someone wants me they can call back later.
& Yes, the cable should be ok, I probably went a bit overboard but thought it better to have it too secure than not secure enough.

Should be able to get out this afternoon hopefully so will try all above tips & see how it goes.

Thanks fellas,
Paul.