Loaming for Gold information and questions

[Hare_Twigga]

Think of it this way. The gold bearing vein may be 20m up a steep slope from the creek. Taking samples 50m either side won't indicate much.

 

[Village]

Village,

In your experience with a sample distance of 100m what is the likelihood of missing a small lode? I'm new to this and to me 100m is a long way apart, though necessary when covering distances of 500m or more. Is there anything else you would be looking for in your pan or sample apart from gold which may indicate you are getting close?

For example:
Scenario 1
I were to take two samples 100m apart and find nothing then I would not investigate further.
Scenario 2
In the same area I were to take three samples 50m apart and only find gold in the middle sample I would then continue looking around this middle sample.

In scenario 1 I miss the gold, in 2 I find it. Does this happen or am I missing something obvious?

BTW thanks for sharing your knowledge, most appreciated!

G day Prospector B

I am thinking that a picture or two may be worth a thousand words here, I'll see what I can do later by using one of my previous prospects, if I can't get that to display by stage, I'll do it by hand and scan it. The process is dynamic, I have one in mind where it was on a fairly steep slope, if was testing, on my patience that is. Just hang a little and I see what I can do.

 

[Prospector B]

That would definitely happen especially in steep country.

Think of it this way. The gold bearing vein may be 20m up a steep slope from the creek. Taking samples 50m either side won't indicate much.

Hare_Twigga, They were my thoughts. Around where I'm prospecting it can get fairly steep.

G day Prospector B

I am thinking that a picture or two may be worth a thousand words here, I'll see what I can do later by using one of my previous prospects, if I can't get that to display by stage, I'll do it by hand and scan it. The process is dynamic, I have one in mind where it was on a fairly steep slope, if was testing, on my patience that is. Just hang a little and I see what I can do.

Village, thanks heaps, that would be most useful!

 

[kleinman98]

She is single trench fighter, strawberry blonde 24 years old, metallurgist, good job six figures cadetship out of uni, financial secure. Bloody works on a mine site, buggered if Iknow what the issue is

Yep go figure. Its amazing what young girls of today do for work and good on them I say. One of my nieces is in her mid twenties and was driving one of those big no HUGE dump trucks at the mines at Singleton but now pushes a pram instead. Go figure.

 

[Village]

Ok guys

Now don't expect this this week, and this is going to take a while, to convert. I originally did this one a few years ago, and at the time I was using magellan Vantagepoint. To get you a real scenario not a hypothetical I need to try to convert all the data, and superimpose it over the map. Falling that I will have to draw it, but I think you will benefit, and it will clear up the issues and the benefits and why.

I'll list it as a separate post, and to stop the conjecture I name it Mineral Matrix Testing, or MMT. Look for it in starting to appear somewhere in the next 2 weeks. I have to did out my field books which are achieved, just so you can see the process. When you see what and why I did, all the points I listed earlier, and some I negated to list should become clear.

Feel free to adapt or modify as you please, theres nothing hard and fast with it, but consider that each step has a reason, I 'll try to list these for you.

I trust that if you employ some or all of process it yields good results.

 

[rc62burke]

Most of these videos have nothing to do with loaming??
Bogie is an interesting bloke but being a geologist does not mean he knows how to mine. My missus is a geologist too, this does not mean she's an expert loamer, actually she has never even done it before.
Village has outlined a very detailed method of loaming from his own experiences and gladly shared his hard won knowledge. In my opinion you should show more respect to the people who are here and sharing there knowledge, rather then telling them they are wrong cause you seen something YouTube .

DD

Right on DiggerDude
There is virtually explanation of the process that he put in place other than to say he took some samples here & there & found the point of the source.

IMHO you can not learn the "Loaming" method from these vids, if you can you are a lot more switched on than me!!!

Man there has been some action on here since I spent 6 days in the bush.
cheers
Lee

 

[rc62burke]

Hi All
So lets "Talk' "Loaming"

"Loaming" is the term used to describe the systematic sampling of soil to determine if they carry gold values & to ultimately find the source of the gold shedding into the soil.

This is not to be confused with stream sediment sampling which is used to determine the values of "Gold" within the "Alluvial" gravels of a creek bed as the name suggests "Stream Sediment" Like I said in an earlier post there are a number of folks who have used the term "Loaming" to describe "Stream Sediment Sampling", they are 2 very different techniques & for the benifit of all should be reffered to in the correct context to promote a better understanding for all.

"Loaming" is generally conducted once you have determined a run of gold in your area either, that indicates rough gold, by using a detector, or by "Stream Sediment Sampling" or (SSS)
"Loaming is conducted at right angles to the slope of the ground, that is across the slope & is commenced out of the creek channel on the slope itself.

How to do it, I scrape of the grass & top 2" of dirt over a 600mm square area ( this is to prevent surface contamination of the sample) then I use a 200mm hand auger to dig a hole into the scraped area down 4 to 5 " I then scrape this spoil out & into a bag, I put a bit of masking tape around the top of the bag & assign it a number, I label my rows from A to Z up the slope & 1 to 100 across the slope, the most important thing is to keep records of what you are doing.

You may ask, What does this bloke know about "Loaming"?? Answer- Only what I have learnt from a local guy who has found many a reef & from applying that knowledge in the bush, Have I found a reef? no but I am getting closer, the spot I am working I have done 130 "Loam" samples it is showing a pattern so I will keep on following it.
I hope this sheds some light on the subject.

Then I proccess the samples at my leasure.
cheers
Lee

Hi Village, in my explanation above is there anything here that you would do different or change, keep in mind I only "Loam" once I have found a run of the right gold in a creek (then I move onto the slopes) so not on the scale of which you do it as it is way to time consuming, I bring all my samples home

Cheers
Lee

 

[rc62burke]

http://www.chartandmapshop.com.au/2803490/Loaming-for-Gold/9780859054317
Noticed that my first link no longer have it but it is available above. A good starting point IMO - Loaming for Gold by Sam Cash.
I can see that both methods above (Villages & rc62burkes) have merit. Would it be fair to say Village that yours may be better suited to larger search areas or operations?
I have followed some of rc62burkes posts closely on the topic before & can vouch for his passion + enthusiasm for loaming. I have also seen a willingness to learn & pass on information to others. Having only read about Sam Cash's methods & not put any great deal of effort into loaming its a topic that I am still interested in finding out more about even if only to put the basic ideas into practice whilst detecting.
If I remember correctly I believe I have read somewhere that even Sam Cash & others agreed to disagree on their methods so I guess it would be up to oneself to decide on a method to suit their own situation/area but the basics would still be fundamental in your success?

Hey Mate
Thanks for the kind words.
cheers
Lee

 

[rc62burke]

The point with loaming slowflow is to identify virgin ground and the viabilty of such. Ideally you utilise the process on a continual basis. So to put it in practice, you might be prospecting a site,and on your way home, you might stop and sample a prospective area. Your in NSW and they have excellent public access resources to help you along your way.

1. You do your desk top research, so utilise digs. a dpi database, you can look at an area, view past and current EL and ML reports, view physical recorded geology of the area and so on. Gives you idea what was found, how it was mined, and what the bigger guys are doing in the areas. Trust me on this, every area that has produced gold in the 150 years has had (in the last 10 years) or does have a current Exploration license over it. You will get some good information, annual reports on licenses virtually provide you with a good picture of whats happened or happening.

2. If it looks good, you might define a couple of prospects, a gps is good. Garmin units come with base camp, which allows you to plug your device into the computer, then you can access the topo maps on the computer, so good, that you can roll the map to get a 3D view of your area. If you want for about $30 year you can get birdseye, which allows you to download satellite imagery of an area, so that you have a hybrid map, comprises of sat images and all the topo information, which you can 3d roll also. You can mark your prospective area by waypoint. Sat imagery is very useful. Years ago before it was available we use to do desktop, then once I remember we spent 3 days doing resections cause when we got into the field, we found a dairy farmer had built a bloody great hay barn right over the area we wanted to drill, which unbeknown to him, he had built over the collapsed entrance to a drive that was dug back in the 50's. Couldn't believe it at the time, he used the area cause it was now flat, cause they bulldozered the area into the entrance and finished it off flat, go figure.

3. Ideally you engage the process continually, give you some idea I have at the moment 17 different areas under appraisal at the moment. Does it work on flat ground, well I would disagree with swright on that, works extremely well. I use my truck rather then walk on flat ground, and my initial search area say in the NT, would be 5kms by 5kms, with 100 or 200m intervals, cover more ground, and rule out areas quickly. Say if I was going to go down around camp ground or area close to you, I would probably drop down to an area of say 500m x 500m for initial sampling at 75 to 100m intervals.

Oh just a couple of key points,

1. if you get concentrations in your perimeter samples, immediately go back and expand your search area. The results of your perimeter samples should be a zero return, especially if the sample is on the highest elevation. Otherwise you may in fact miss the lode that is producing the mineral.

2. Don't get tunnelled vision by geological features, stay methodical. The lithology of area can tend to shadow the best spots, so stick to your plan, no matter how well you can read it.

3. Record your results, a pocket spiral notebook from officeworks costs a dollar or so, thats all you need, have a separate one for each area, and record your results no matter how disappointing or good they may be. You will refer back to these notes. A5 is best it allows you to make field sketches of your observations to support any notes you make. Might seem a little technical at first, but when you get a couple of areas on the go, it does ensure you don't mix results, from different sites.

4. A good trick that I always do, is to take sample of the soil separately, now I like Always Fresh or 333, glass jars, place a sample of the soil in the jar about 30 to 40% of its volume, the sample should ideally come from about 10 to 12" down, as this will not contain humus ( the fourth element of soil, which is only found in the top 8", and is what makes topsoil) when you get home or back to camp, fill the jar to about 90% with water, place the cap on and shake the crap out of it, till you have thoroughly mixed and suspend the sample in the water. Place the jar where it won't be disturbed for about 12 hours or overnight usually. Siphon the water from the jar without disturbing it, and leave the lid off in the sun to allow it to dry. This can take days. But when the time comes to actually getting down to the money side of things, extraction, what you have is a rudamentary soil sample segregated, most of the elements will separate into layers by the specific gravity( density). This will tell you roughly what you will expect to process, and allow you to decipher the best process for extraction. Arid areas that are dry may contain excessive levels of clay, which if you travel back to start processing after rain, may not be viable on your chosen process. Soil is comprised of three elements, clay, sand and silt. The process you utilise during extraction, largely depends on its composition. No point trying to dry blow clumped clay.

The aim of the game, is find to find your claim, the cheapest way, without expending any more cash or sweat then you have too, save that for extraction.

Hey Village
Are you able to tell me if what you mentioned above with the mapping would work effectively in the area of "Forsayth" North Queensland???
I am very interested in learning more about this side of things if it shows enough detail to be of use in my area.
cheers
And thanks for your input in this discussion!!!!
Lee

 

[Village]

The point with loaming slowflow is to identify virgin ground and the viabilty of such. Ideally you utilise the process on a continual basis. So to put it in practice, you might be prospecting a site,and on your way home, you might stop and sample a prospective area. Your in NSW and they have excellent public access resources to help you along your way.

1. You do your desk top research, so utilise digs. a dpi database, you can look at an area, view past and current EL and ML reports, view physical recorded geology of the area and so on. Gives you idea what was found, how it was mined, and what the bigger guys are doing in the areas. Trust me on this, every area that has produced gold in the 150 years has had (in the last 10 years) or does have a current Exploration license over it. You will get some good information, annual reports on licenses virtually provide you with a good picture of whats happened or happening.

2. If it looks good, you might define a couple of prospects, a gps is good. Garmin units come with base camp, which allows you to plug your device into the computer, then you can access the topo maps on the computer, so good, that you can roll the map to get a 3D view of your area. If you want for about $30 year you can get birdseye, which allows you to download satellite imagery of an area, so that you have a hybrid map, comprises of sat images and all the topo information, which you can 3d roll also. You can mark your prospective area by waypoint. Sat imagery is very useful. Years ago before it was available we use to do desktop, then once I remember we spent 3 days doing resections cause when we got into the field, we found a dairy farmer had built a bloody great hay barn right over the area we wanted to drill, which unbeknown to him, he had built over the collapsed entrance to a drive that was dug back in the 50's. Couldn't believe it at the time, he used the area cause it was now flat, cause they bulldozered the area into the entrance and finished it off flat, go figure.

3. Ideally you engage the process continually, give you some idea I have at the moment 17 different areas under appraisal at the moment. Does it work on flat ground, well I would disagree with swright on that, works extremely well. I use my truck rather then walk on flat ground, and my initial search area say in the NT, would be 5kms by 5kms, with 100 or 200m intervals, cover more ground, and rule out areas quickly. Say if I was going to go down around camp ground or area close to you, I would probably drop down to an area of say 500m x 500m for initial sampling at 75 to 100m intervals.

Oh just a couple of key points,

1. if you get concentrations in your perimeter samples, immediately go back and expand your search area. The results of your perimeter samples should be a zero return, especially if the sample is on the highest elevation. Otherwise you may in fact miss the lode that is producing the mineral.

2. Don't get tunnelled vision by geological features, stay methodical. The lithology of area can tend to shadow the best spots, so stick to your plan, no matter how well you can read it.

3. Record your results, a pocket spiral notebook from officeworks costs a dollar or so, thats all you need, have a separate one for each area, and record your results no matter how disappointing or good they may be. You will refer back to these notes. A5 is best it allows you to make field sketches of your observations to support any notes you make. Might seem a little technical at first, but when you get a couple of areas on the go, it does ensure you don't mix results, from different sites.

4. A good trick that I always do, is to take sample of the soil separately, now I like Always Fresh or 333, glass jars, place a sample of the soil in the jar about 30 to 40% of its volume, the sample should ideally come from about 10 to 12" down, as this will not contain humus ( the fourth element of soil, which is only found in the top 8", and is what makes topsoil) when you get home or back to camp, fill the jar to about 90% with water, place the cap on and shake the crap out of it, till you have thoroughly mixed and suspend the sample in the water. Place the jar where it won't be disturbed for about 12 hours or overnight usually. Siphon the water from the jar without disturbing it, and leave the lid off in the sun to allow it to dry. This can take days. But when the time comes to actually getting down to the money side of things, extraction, what you have is a rudamentary soil sample segregated, most of the elements will separate into layers by the specific gravity( density). This will tell you roughly what you will expect to process, and allow you to decipher the best process for extraction. Arid areas that are dry may contain excessive levels of clay, which if you travel back to start processing after rain, may not be viable on your chosen process. Soil is comprised of three elements, clay, sand and silt. The process you utilise during extraction, largely depends on its composition. No point trying to dry blow clumped clay.

The aim of the game, is find to find your claim, the cheapest way, without expending any more cash or sweat then you have too, save that for extraction.

Hey Village
Are you able to tell me if what you mentioned above with the mapping would work effectively in the area of "Forsayth" North Queensland???
I am very interested in learning more about this side of things if it shows enough detail to be of use in my area.
cheers
And thanks for your input in this discussion!!!!
Lee

Hi Lee

check out general chat, look for the post that says"For slowflow, gives you all the detail and yes works around the globe.

John

 

[Village]

Hi lee

Look I'm not wanting to get into a fight about nomenclature or history on the issue of looming. When I did my studies in the field, when they start a lecture about something they generally provide history and background to how it was developed. As far as I know, Loaming as technique for sampling was originally derived or had it's first origins he in Australia, back in the 1920's, or lets say earlier 1900's in WA. That it was a process primarily used in the detection of gold by prospectors which, now as it was explained to me, was the process of traversing a ridge, spur or feature, sampling at consistent interval, and in they case, dry panning the results.

It later developed as process, where and hey I'm not taking credit, that they used fabric tubes and twine, to capture a sample, and as many as they could carry. Then proceed to a point whereby they could test the samples. Modern technique's have their origins in this method, multiple names, largely dependant on the industry that employs them. An interesting fact that came out of this in this background, was that Lang Hancock, employed the method largely, and in certain circles it is believed that it was his success with the method, that was reason for it's accent.

To me, any process, undertaken by whether it be amateur or a professional, or the multiple levels in-between should be comprehensive and methodical and employ the best practises to ensure, that people don't waste their time. I am trying to find my field notes from a typical example and post it so that any questions can be enlightened. as I ve said before it's up to the individual applying it, as to how thorough they wish to be, expand it, shrink it, add, remove, don't agree, agree. It's a process, not a lotto ticket.

What I explained was just a simplified process that I was taught in mineral research, that I have no doubt, personalised in some way. Having done my dissertion in sedimentology, stream sediment sampling, again is a 20 page process. Like most things in life people may see similarities, but in fact the process is vastly different. Someone may have , at some point, taken a few steps from the SSS process, but in no means should it be applied outside the stream bed. Soil and sediment characteristics and behaviours are different, it is not two in the same. In fact get a geologist from Australia and one from South Africa together things can get out of hand to be honest, not that it involved me, but jesus.

I have as mentioned earlier, we should refer,and I am happy to do so, refer to what I described as Sequential Matrix Sampling, SMS, you could call it a dog with flees, doesn't matter. Today I think that you can call it cheesecake, my wife made a beauty last night but I 'm not allowed till after dinner, what matters is that covenants of a process be explained, and the reasons why, so far we have got to a process, with serious debate on history, origins and alike, even had someone discussing BL and atomic methods, we should focusing on explaining a process, who cares where it comes from, the reasons why we do certain steps, and hopefully be a hell of lot more constructive then we have been.

So to answer you question, or in fact not answer your question Lee, I don't really know, and to be honest I think in amateur prospecting there are many terrain dependant variations, based on the locality of the author.

 

[WalnLiz]

Hi All
So lets "Talk' "Loaming"

"Loaming" is the term used to describe the systematic sampling of soil to determine if they carry gold values & to ultimately find the source of the gold shedding into the soil.

This is not to be confused with stream sediment sampling which is used to determine the values of "Gold" within the "Alluvial" gravels of a creek bed as the name suggests "Stream Sediment" Like I said in an earlier post there are a number of folks who have used the term "Loaming" to describe "Stream Sediment Sampling", they are 2 very different techniques & for the benifit of all should be reffered to in the correct context to promote a better understanding for all.

"Loaming" is generally conducted once you have determined a run of gold in your area either, that indicates rough gold, by using a detector, or by "Stream Sediment Sampling" or (SSS)
"Loaming is conducted at right angles to the slope of the ground, that is across the slope & is commenced out of the creek channel on the slope itself.

How to do it, I scrape of the grass & top 2" of dirt over a 600mm square area ( this is to prevent surface contamination of the sample) then I use a 200mm hand auger to dig a hole into the scraped area down 4 to 5 " I then scrape this spoil out & into a bag, I put a bit of masking tape around the top of the bag & assign it a number, I label my rows from A to Z up the slope & 1 to 100 across the slope, the most important thing is to keep records of what you are doing.

You may ask, What does this bloke know about "Loaming"?? Answer- Only what I have learnt from a local guy who has found many a reef & from applying that knowledge in the bush, Have I found a reef? no but I am getting closer, the spot I am working I have done 130 "Loam" samples it is showing a pattern so I will keep on following it.
I hope this sheds some light on the subject.

Then I proccess the samples at my leasure.
cheers
Lee

Hi Village, in my explanation above is there anything here that you would do different or change, keep in mind I only "Loam" once I have found a run of the right gold in a creek (then I move onto the slopes) so not on the scale of which you do it as it is way to time consuming, I bring all my samples home

Cheers
Lee

Don't know if I'm the only one on here who thinks he's been listening to a broken record for ages...... 8.(

Cheers Wal.

 

[Village]

Ok Wal' I''l play, am I missing something?

 

[rc62burke]

Hey Wal
With great respect! please explain as you have lost me!!!
cheers
Lee

 

[G0lddigg@]

you trying to get your post count up rc62burke

 

[rc62burke]

Hi Wal
The reason I asked the question again was due to the fact that Village had copped a bit of flak when I origionally put it up & looked like he took a little break from proceedings, I saw him post more stuff so I asked as I am all about learning & perfecting what I am doing so that I can use my time more effectively when I am in the bush. As a result of my sampleing if it all turns out good I will explore all avenues to exploit the resource, lease, claim, just dig, joint venture what ever it may be you only live once, but at the moment I am soaking up the experience & doing things the way the old boys did it.

I will & can take any sort of positive advice when it is offered.
cheers
Lee

 

[Hare_Twigga]

Would this green in the quartz be indicative it could be gold bearing? This vein has no visible gold but has heavy silver metallic flakes in it when crushed. There's a parallel laminated vein 2 mtrs away from it with visible gold.

 

[Village]

Ok Now remember this is an isolated photo I am working of here, I have no idea of the surrounding lithology, but what you have in photo appears blue/violet

My Observations

Colour: Blue/Violet

Lustre: Vitereous

Without hardness or streak testing it, nor seeing it in it's natural environment, I would say what you have there is known as pseudomorph, that is the SiO2 Quartz has been replaced by another mineral, but retained the crystal like structure. Most commonly the the mineral would have been reibeckite, also be mistaken for blue asbestos.I would say that you have found the specimen in a sedimentary formation most likely or lamprophyres.

Whilst, from memory these do appear a lot in gold country, they are fairly common and the result of hydrothermal activity adjunct to quartz veins. It can occur in both bearing and barren quartz and today as far as I am aware there has never been any documented relationship between the two.

Up side, it does indicate that the area has been subject to or most likely hydrothermal activity around the extremes of the quartz dykes, which means intrusions and heat and given the relatively low melt point of Au in comparison, heat leads to pressure, which leads to fractures, molten material takes the least path of resistance. What I would say is that is is a very good indicator for all the geological activity that is favourable for what you want.

If the crystals are large enough, in some countries they are carved and are referred to cabochons, and are of some value.

Remember though, Without hardness or streak testing it, nor seeing it in it's natural environment.

Ever called a doctor and said, Doc I got red spots and I'm feeling a little hot and what their reply is. Without seeing you I can't diagnose you. My doc says ever time I walk into his office, "Jesus Aren't you dead yet." We have a loving relationship.

 

[Hare_Twigga]

Village your knowledge is amazing! I have some other rocks with interesting things about them that I'd love to have identified but it would have to be under a rock identification topic. I don't want to go off topic. Is there one on here? I couldn't find it.

 

[WalnLiz]

Hey Wal
With great respect! please explain as you have lost me!!!
cheers
Lee

Been following the thread with interest, and there's been some great input by quite a few. The thread has unfortunately turned more into a debate amongst a few, and much of the thread seems to be going around in never ending circles, with not much additional info coming to light.

I personally don't mind listening to constructive advice....but when it's all about oneself it tends to lose its impact. My opinion only.....and if I've still lost you then we're on a different railway line :/

Cheers Wal.