Hi All. Im looking at putting a PV solar array on my house and was wondering what experiences others have had with the various makes of panels and inverters.
Grid connect Solar systems
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Electrical experience here,
Grid connected is a wise move as batteries can be very expensive and don,t last forever.
The worst thing about solar in Australia is the VERY LOW FEED IN TARRIF offered to people that have panels and are exporting back to the grid.
If your at home consuming electricity during the peak solar generation period you can lower your bills depending on your installations output and
your homes demand.
A lot of solar companies resort to telling lies to get sales, i have seen roofs full of panels amongst heavily shaded gardens etc. Solar companies could sell ice to eskimo,s.
I did the calculations for going solar at my home and the pay back period was about 10 years when i checked a little over two years ago. Did a recent check 3 months ago now down to 8 years, solar systems are coming down in price while electricity charges keep rising more than inflation? Staying on the grid will ensure you get slugged big time in service charges still if you are generating your entire consumption.
For the most part quality components probably last 10 years or more.
In Victoria around 4% of total electricity is generated from Solar, and few people realise the line losses due to resistance of the entire states power network would be far more than that. Another interesting fact is out of the Power generated from Loy Yang the Power station consumes around 6-8% of that just to run the station.
I personally think the Government should set a wholesale price for all energy producers then a home owner with solar would get paid the same rate as Loy Yang per kwh generated, only then would significant savings be available to the average home owner / power consumer. That is equivalent to asking the ATO to for go its taxation on petrol / diesel & LPG. The consumer is effectively screwed on every financial deal when it comes to essentials.
Grid connected is a wise move as batteries can be very expensive and don,t last forever.
The worst thing about solar in Australia is the VERY LOW FEED IN TARRIF offered to people that have panels and are exporting back to the grid.
If your at home consuming electricity during the peak solar generation period you can lower your bills depending on your installations output and
your homes demand.
A lot of solar companies resort to telling lies to get sales, i have seen roofs full of panels amongst heavily shaded gardens etc. Solar companies could sell ice to eskimo,s.
I did the calculations for going solar at my home and the pay back period was about 10 years when i checked a little over two years ago. Did a recent check 3 months ago now down to 8 years, solar systems are coming down in price while electricity charges keep rising more than inflation? Staying on the grid will ensure you get slugged big time in service charges still if you are generating your entire consumption.
For the most part quality components probably last 10 years or more.
In Victoria around 4% of total electricity is generated from Solar, and few people realise the line losses due to resistance of the entire states power network would be far more than that. Another interesting fact is out of the Power generated from Loy Yang the Power station consumes around 6-8% of that just to run the station.
I personally think the Government should set a wholesale price for all energy producers then a home owner with solar would get paid the same rate as Loy Yang per kwh generated, only then would significant savings be available to the average home owner / power consumer. That is equivalent to asking the ATO to for go its taxation on petrol / diesel & LPG. The consumer is effectively screwed on every financial deal when it comes to essentials.
Moneybox
Philip & Sandra Box
We just moved to Cue. A place where the summer temperatures will see the air conditioner on throughout the day every day. I decided that solar power would be a good choice because the time of our highest power consumption would usually be at the same time as our greatest solar power production.
However we cannot do it because Horizon Power state that our town has reached it's maximum allowed solar production. We cannot fit solar because then they don't get to sell as much power as they would like
However we cannot do it because Horizon Power state that our town has reached it's maximum allowed solar production. We cannot fit solar because then they don't get to sell as much power as they would like
Moneybox said:We just moved to Cue. A place where the summer temperatures will see the air conditioner on throughout the day every day. I decided that solar power would be a good choice because the time of our highest power consumption would usually be at the same time as our greatest solar power production.
However we cannot do it because Horizon Power state that our town has reached it's maximum allowed solar production. We cannot fit solar because then they don't get to sell as much power as they would like
When there a number of houses fitted with solar in an area it can cause upsets in the local lines with phase imbalance. The LV lines that supply houses are a three phase system and if for example one or two of the phases had a large number of grid connected solar systems it can cause a significant in balance in the network. ]
8.( 
We've had solar for years, a 5.2kw system and it has more than paid for itself. There are a few tricks to making it work; adding Solar Hot Water makes a massive difference, but you need to plan usage times... what I mean is if all the family shower in the evening you drain your tank then your off peak system will heat the water during the night, if you shower in the morning, then the solar heats your water through the day, first major saving!
Next is lighting, halogens consume between 6 or more times the power of LED's, so change all your lights. Choosing LEDs is also important, a 6w warm white LED gives out less lumens that a 6w daylight LED (6000 deg Kelvin).
In Vic orientation will be critical so if you can't get the system facing North, your going to be battling unless you install a tracking system and they cost big time.
Buyback, we get 50c but it is very competitive up here so we shopped contracts. Most of the time we are $hundreds in credit and get a cheque every 6 months, recently our foray into faceting has killed this, running two electric motors for hours most nights sucks up a fair bit of power, but that said... I hate to think what the power bills would look like of we didn't have solar ] :skull:
Our panels are Canadian Solar and were the best around when we installed around 6yrs ago.
The Gold Coast is totally reliant on solar, with the level of development together with everyone wanting air-con, if we didn't have the volume of solar systems we have on the Goldie, the power system would collapse in summer as development has exceeded infrastructure upgrading.
Next is lighting, halogens consume between 6 or more times the power of LED's, so change all your lights. Choosing LEDs is also important, a 6w warm white LED gives out less lumens that a 6w daylight LED (6000 deg Kelvin).
In Vic orientation will be critical so if you can't get the system facing North, your going to be battling unless you install a tracking system and they cost big time.
Buyback, we get 50c but it is very competitive up here so we shopped contracts. Most of the time we are $hundreds in credit and get a cheque every 6 months, recently our foray into faceting has killed this, running two electric motors for hours most nights sucks up a fair bit of power, but that said... I hate to think what the power bills would look like of we didn't have solar ]
:skull: Our panels are Canadian Solar and were the best around when we installed around 6yrs ago.
The Gold Coast is totally reliant on solar, with the level of development together with everyone wanting air-con, if we didn't have the volume of solar systems we have on the Goldie, the power system would collapse in summer as development has exceeded infrastructure upgrading.
condor22
Mike
Some time in the near future, we will be building our, hopefully last, house. My wife will have a need for reliable A/C in summer for medical reasons. Another must is that we do not want an all electric house as past experience has shown in S.A. when the power goes off, it can be for extended periods and if all electric, nothing works or gets cooked.
So, I'm doing some research to give the best options, keeping in mind that where we move will not have town gas, but will have town water and power.
My initial thought is a design that provides options. I'm looking at maximum solar on the roof, including a solar hot water booster and a Tesla or similar battery backup. The system I've looked at uses ones own solar to power the house during the day, charges the battery and only feeds into the grid any surplus. But on occasions that is not enough, the grid is used as a backup supply. hot water would be instant heat LPG from the larger household cylinders as well as the kitchen oven. So gas is only used when cooking or the hot tap is turned on, the solar hot water booster would preheat the water also reducing gas usage.
As my wife will need summer air conditioning, a small split system in the main bedroom and a larger one in the living area. On these occasions, I believe grid supply will be needed. My backup will be a single outlet evaporative roof mounted cooler (about 1/2 kW) that can be run from solar/battery for several hours on the south facing part of the roof.
The old saying "you can't have your cake and eat it....." is what I'm looking at actually doing. So, in brief the criteria are;
1. Minimise grid usage
2. Maximise solar output for immediate use before giving the grid any surplus
3. Have the grid available if needed and be self reliant for a time if it's down.
4. Be able to cook and wash using another energy source.
As mentioned above, LED lighting, low voltage options for some appliances and lower load appliances will also factor etc etc.
After all, I power a 2kW diesel heater, TV, Satellite Box, Lights, charge phones WiFi and detectors all from a single 130AH AGM and 200W of solar in the caravan.
So, I'm doing some research to give the best options, keeping in mind that where we move will not have town gas, but will have town water and power.
My initial thought is a design that provides options. I'm looking at maximum solar on the roof, including a solar hot water booster and a Tesla or similar battery backup. The system I've looked at uses ones own solar to power the house during the day, charges the battery and only feeds into the grid any surplus. But on occasions that is not enough, the grid is used as a backup supply. hot water would be instant heat LPG from the larger household cylinders as well as the kitchen oven. So gas is only used when cooking or the hot tap is turned on, the solar hot water booster would preheat the water also reducing gas usage.
As my wife will need summer air conditioning, a small split system in the main bedroom and a larger one in the living area. On these occasions, I believe grid supply will be needed. My backup will be a single outlet evaporative roof mounted cooler (about 1/2 kW) that can be run from solar/battery for several hours on the south facing part of the roof.
The old saying "you can't have your cake and eat it....." is what I'm looking at actually doing. So, in brief the criteria are;
1. Minimise grid usage
2. Maximise solar output for immediate use before giving the grid any surplus
3. Have the grid available if needed and be self reliant for a time if it's down.
4. Be able to cook and wash using another energy source.
As mentioned above, LED lighting, low voltage options for some appliances and lower load appliances will also factor etc etc.
After all, I power a 2kW diesel heater, TV, Satellite Box, Lights, charge phones WiFi and detectors all from a single 130AH AGM and 200W of solar in the caravan.
condor22
Mike
I've also looked at the possibility of fitting a diesel heater as a winter time backup in place of the split systems if power goes down. Another thought is to run low voltage lighting wiring similar to caravans of old for a 12V lighting system in the house as an independent backup.
Hi Jethro we got a 5kw system put on a bit over 2 years ago.jethro said:
It uses Phono Solar panels that have a 25 year performance warranty (basically they warranty the panels to still produce around ~80% of rated output after 25 years on a falling scale).
We went with an Enphase microinverter system basically meaning each panel has it's own microinverter (20) for better performance. I won't try to sell you on microinverter system benefits but if you're after a solar system then you should take a look at them. Plenty of info around.
This site has some good info www.solarquotes.com.au
We've had no problems with our panels or the Enphase microinverter system at all but it's still relatively new.
As said above the savings will be dependant on your individual usage. We notice very good savings in summer when we use the reverse cycle air conditioner more during the day using the solar power up but don't notice the savings as much in winter when we are obviously running it more during the night off the grid. We have never had a cheque in the mail & have always still had to pay something each quarter. We get about 12c feed in tariff which is about the best I could find in NSW. 50c would get us a return in some quarters but I haven't seen anyone in NSW offering anywhere near that now.
Based on our savings we are looking at a 10 year payback period but in saying that IMO it's a value add to your property these days so that offsets it too.
Once the solar battery prices settle down more I'll be weighing up whether it's worth getting some so we can store some winter daytime solar power to offset our winter nighttime use but we'll still be connected to the grid.
A mate of mine who lives out of town is now completely off the grid. He's got a big set up including back up diesel generator which cuts in to top up the batteries if needed. It has only cut in once during an extended winter wet period a few years ago.
Our Enphase public page: https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/pv/public_systems/Uggm956457/overview?preview=1
You can view production on here for our system.
You can view production on here for our system.
Araratgold
Rick
One thing that pisses me off is my 5.2kW system can be pumping like mad on a sunny day, but if there is a blackout, the inverter shuts down, meaning you can't use your own generated power during a blackout. Inverters need grid voltage to trigger them !
It's some sort of safety thing built into all systems apparently, doesn't help though when you lose grid power !
Rick
It's some sort of safety thing built into all systems apparently, doesn't help though when you lose grid power !
Rick
To all that replied. especially Dihusky and Mbasko Thanks. Yeah looking at a Catch power or ohm pilot controller to heat our hot water as this is the major consumer of electricity in our house. Micro inverters are the go if you have shading or multiple orientation issues. I have read just about everything on the solarquotes website and ive got to say Finn is a great asset to the solar community and those thet want to know more about what makes solar work.
My aim is to look at the solar PV system as an investment with better returns than I can currently get by investing in a similar amount in either a term deposit or the stock market. I think I can double the return per annum I receive on stocks like woodside petrolium or the big 4 banks by halving (or better) my average $450 odd dollar a quarter power bill by investing 10K over 10 years. :argh:
My aim is to look at the solar PV system as an investment with better returns than I can currently get by investing in a similar amount in either a term deposit or the stock market. I think I can double the return per annum I receive on stocks like woodside petrolium or the big 4 banks by halving (or better) my average $450 odd dollar a quarter power bill by investing 10K over 10 years. :argh:
I have solar power since 2018,I have mixed feeling towards it,
After 9 years the inverter packed and i enquired about having it fixed,how long have you had, 9 years well you have done well.
Well what is the solution,refurbished $650.00 6months warranty or a new one $1350.00 couple years.
As being a electrian I installed it my self, the wiring had to altered,unit purched at cost price,and saved a lot by installing.
I recently spoke to another electrician who replaced the inverters,his comment was a great business.
I have vacum tube hot water unit on the roof,very tiny motor to move the water around,and all say, a great unit,which tops up the hot water during the day,saving the boost element from coming during the evening ,which would be using day rate charges for power,that bangs up your bill.
I notice so many hot water units stuck out in the weather,put your hands on the pipes,loosing so much heat,well guess what you have too pay fo more electricy to replace that heat.
The boost element is about 3kw,which is if runs for 1 hour to boost your hot water could cost $1.00 hour plus to top up your hot water.
When we had our house built back 14years,I said the plumber what about the lagging of the hot water lines,do not worry about it just let the hot water run it longer to get what you want.Well here at Ballarat that can mean a lot more hot water,that is the problem.Well I lagged it triple,with silver foil,because it is a long run to our bathrooms at the end of the house,and glad we did.
Covered unit with a small steel garden shed to stop those cold winds from cooling the unit.
This my 2 cents worth :sunny: .
After 9 years the inverter packed and i enquired about having it fixed,how long have you had, 9 years well you have done well.
Well what is the solution,refurbished $650.00 6months warranty or a new one $1350.00 couple years.
As being a electrian I installed it my self, the wiring had to altered,unit purched at cost price,and saved a lot by installing.
I recently spoke to another electrician who replaced the inverters,his comment was a great business.
I have vacum tube hot water unit on the roof,very tiny motor to move the water around,and all say, a great unit,which tops up the hot water during the day,saving the boost element from coming during the evening ,which would be using day rate charges for power,that bangs up your bill.
I notice so many hot water units stuck out in the weather,put your hands on the pipes,loosing so much heat,well guess what you have too pay fo more electricy to replace that heat.
The boost element is about 3kw,which is if runs for 1 hour to boost your hot water could cost $1.00 hour plus to top up your hot water.
When we had our house built back 14years,I said the plumber what about the lagging of the hot water lines,do not worry about it just let the hot water run it longer to get what you want.Well here at Ballarat that can mean a lot more hot water,that is the problem.Well I lagged it triple,with silver foil,because it is a long run to our bathrooms at the end of the house,and glad we did.
Covered unit with a small steel garden shed to stop those cold winds from cooling the unit.
This my 2 cents worth :sunny: .
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Im getting gridded , 6.5 kw system - string inverter , 20cent feed in tariff with agl for 24 months 24 array solar system , German made , 6909 dollars after Queensland government grant. Annual electricity bill 2190 , solar rebate from feed in tariff 250 per quarter , pay off time 2.5 years . Im happy doing it electricity bill after fit 0, plus 250 per quarter credit.
Ok i have to ask this question
If i get a house in the middle of town (nsw)
Can said house be taken off the grid totally and run solar only
If i get a house in the middle of town (nsw)
Can said house be taken off the grid totally and run solar only
Today 6:25 am
Gem in I wrote:
I worked on a fellas property 2 weeks ago - semi rural and he was totally off grid. 24 panels for 24 batteries locked in a reinforced cage linked to a large control board automated by a laptop with programs installed knowing what was coming and going with input of energy and output of each appliance. The batteries are expected to have a 20 year life span and his son had to have minimal relevant training with the system a bit like when learning to drive a car but easier as was explained to me.
His son lives on the property with wife and 2 kids as does the owner (father) with his wife and they are building a third smaller house currently.
The cost was $35 000 he said, the whole setup came from Germany and the only thing he kept his eye on was a series of about 6 blinking lights which had to do with battery storage and the lowest it has hit was 4 lights on cloudy weeks but topped up again within a sunny day. Sorry not a lot of technical jargon for you but from what I see I am totally impressed. However we still need our grids and supply for the majority of population to function, the more solar panels put up the higher the bill for everyone else.
He was forced to look at this as an option 3 yrs ago because his 2 neighbours were prepared to put up a fight of accessing their mains also at a cost to him of $60 000 so he may have had to put a small sub station out the front of his property at an additional $30 000.
Hope this helps the general sense of things and don't get me wrong I loved Adelaide when I lived there but is there still more hydroponic shops than servos, no wonder theirs power problems roll roll tongue
Last edited by Gem in I (Today 6:27 am)
Patience is a learnt thing. Learnt it, sold it. Bought DETERMINATION.
sdc 2300, Willoughby's, sieves and a Zombie 7000
Gem in I wrote:
I worked on a fellas property 2 weeks ago - semi rural and he was totally off grid. 24 panels for 24 batteries locked in a reinforced cage linked to a large control board automated by a laptop with programs installed knowing what was coming and going with input of energy and output of each appliance. The batteries are expected to have a 20 year life span and his son had to have minimal relevant training with the system a bit like when learning to drive a car but easier as was explained to me.
His son lives on the property with wife and 2 kids as does the owner (father) with his wife and they are building a third smaller house currently.
The cost was $35 000 he said, the whole setup came from Germany and the only thing he kept his eye on was a series of about 6 blinking lights which had to do with battery storage and the lowest it has hit was 4 lights on cloudy weeks but topped up again within a sunny day. Sorry not a lot of technical jargon for you but from what I see I am totally impressed. However we still need our grids and supply for the majority of population to function, the more solar panels put up the higher the bill for everyone else.
He was forced to look at this as an option 3 yrs ago because his 2 neighbours were prepared to put up a fight of accessing their mains also at a cost to him of $60 000 so he may have had to put a small sub station out the front of his property at an additional $30 000.
Hope this helps the general sense of things and don't get me wrong I loved Adelaide when I lived there but is there still more hydroponic shops than servos, no wonder theirs power problems roll roll tongue
Last edited by Gem in I (Today 6:27 am)
Patience is a learnt thing. Learnt it, sold it. Bought DETERMINATION.
sdc 2300, Willoughby's, sieves and a Zombie 7000
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Cheers Jaros :8 short answer marksman theoreticly yes rural connection to grid can cost $90000 (transformers/substations/lines ) need to be added. Closer proximity in towns etc cheaper connection costs. $35000 off grid supplied from germany company this guy from tweed valley was able to build his house plus his sons with wife and two kids on the property without any disruption. He did have (BFB) BIG FALCON BATTERIES :lol: locked in cage all managed input/output via laptop program.
Down here in Victoria during winter,we have very small generation from the panels during winter.
The other thing is the panels need cleaning,that will drop your generation.
I have them on my shed,and another problem is the water coming of the panels attacks the roof zincalume.
These are the things that I noticed.
The other thing is the panels need cleaning,that will drop your generation.
I have them on my shed,and another problem is the water coming of the panels attacks the roof zincalume.
These are the things that I noticed.
I'm no expert but can pass on what I learnt & was told when exploring options in NSW.7.62marksman said:
Going totally off grid is possible but also dependant on a number of factors:
- available roof space & how much of that is optimally orientated. You need to get as close as possible to 10kw (40 panels) I believe to safely go off grid with enough power to run an average house + provide excess for the batteries (if you are a low usage house then you may get away with less). If you need to reconnect to the grid you may face problems as most networks will only allow 5kw single phase systems (up to 30kw for 3 phase though).
- lifestyle & power usage. Would only really suit relatively low-mid power users that can adjust or change lifestyle to suit if required I.e. you may be limited by the amount of appliances you can run at once, you may not be able to cater for one off/temporary higher usage for parties, more people etc.
Edit: if you use electricity for heating/cooling that might be out too.
- as a rule of thumb you should have 3-5 days of battery storage as a back up generator in town may not be possible, practical or allowed. The batteries are still expensive & pay back can be longer than just the on grid solar systems.
- it may sound like you are getting free electricity but you are essentially paying up front for a long period. Unless you plan to be in the house for a long time it may not be cost effective. You also need to consider maintenance costs, system/supply faults & out of warranty repairs/replacement down the track.
- self supply faults in town may mean time without any power at all.
IMO total off grid systems are better for semi rural/rural areas where a good back up generator can be used if/when required.
The advice to me in town was to remain on grid & try to use as much of the solar generated power as possible during the day & avoid using appliances like washing machines, dryers, dish washers etc. at night - not always practical or easy. Down the track when batteries become more affordable then I was advised to look at getting something then to store any excess daytime generation for night use & become as close as possible to being independent from the grid but still connected to it as my "back up" power source.
Of course depending on your own factors the advice given may differ but it made sense to me.
Hi Jethro,
I noticed that you are in Vic so I cant really comment on what your electricity suppliers will offer for power that you feed back into the grid. Do your research in this area first and then do your sums. I had a system installed in 2010. 3.78kw sun tech panels with a Fronius inverter. The system has not been touched in 8 years. Other people I know use SMA inverters (both are German). The SMA is more efficient than the Fronius but they both do a good job. I think that technology has improved considerably over the past 8 years and there are now a lot of manufacturers in this field. Sorry, cant help you with the newer products. I paid $17k for my system but was also getting 60c for each kw of power put back into the grid. The system paid itself off in March 2016 and made a good profit until the feed in tariff finished at the end of that year. Ended up making a 2% return on my investment. I was in credit for all of 2017 and paid my first electricity bill in 8 years the other day. (56 cents) Looks like I will be up for a bill of about $110 per quarter from now on. Wish Id gone to 5 or 6wk on the roof. This would then keep my bills very small. At the moment my feed in tariff is 15 cents which is OK. My house uses solar during the day and grid supplied power at night. Looked at batteries but they would end up costing me considerably more than what Im paying at the moment (cost broken down over the life of the batteries) Every persons aims, electricity usage and feed in tariff will vary. I would suggest researching all options and then make a decision based on what gives you the best outcome. Running swimming pools, electric hot water and air con can impact on which way you go. If you can obtain a feed in tariff of over 10c per kWh I would put as much money as I could afford into panels and a good inverter (assuming you have a good aspect) and then use as much of that power as you can during the day by setting timers on hot water systems, pool pumps etc to operate during sunlight hours. Best luck with it all.
Cheers
Les
I noticed that you are in Vic so I cant really comment on what your electricity suppliers will offer for power that you feed back into the grid. Do your research in this area first and then do your sums. I had a system installed in 2010. 3.78kw sun tech panels with a Fronius inverter. The system has not been touched in 8 years. Other people I know use SMA inverters (both are German). The SMA is more efficient than the Fronius but they both do a good job. I think that technology has improved considerably over the past 8 years and there are now a lot of manufacturers in this field. Sorry, cant help you with the newer products. I paid $17k for my system but was also getting 60c for each kw of power put back into the grid. The system paid itself off in March 2016 and made a good profit until the feed in tariff finished at the end of that year. Ended up making a 2% return on my investment. I was in credit for all of 2017 and paid my first electricity bill in 8 years the other day. (56 cents) Looks like I will be up for a bill of about $110 per quarter from now on. Wish Id gone to 5 or 6wk on the roof. This would then keep my bills very small. At the moment my feed in tariff is 15 cents which is OK. My house uses solar during the day and grid supplied power at night. Looked at batteries but they would end up costing me considerably more than what Im paying at the moment (cost broken down over the life of the batteries) Every persons aims, electricity usage and feed in tariff will vary. I would suggest researching all options and then make a decision based on what gives you the best outcome. Running swimming pools, electric hot water and air con can impact on which way you go. If you can obtain a feed in tariff of over 10c per kWh I would put as much money as I could afford into panels and a good inverter (assuming you have a good aspect) and then use as much of that power as you can during the day by setting timers on hot water systems, pool pumps etc to operate during sunlight hours. Best luck with it all.
Cheers
Les
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thedigger said:
Most of the time it's just the fets that blow, they do all the work, sometimes $30 in parts will bring them back to life.
Solar is great. I know a fellow who built his own inverter and runs the whole house off grid by powering it with a big forklift battery.
8KW of panels in Melb will power a small house.
To answer the question about grid connect, it's a complete waste of time unless you use a lot of power you make during the day.
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