Can a VLF work in Australia?

[Stevoggo]

I have a spot I have researched and am keen to go and scout around with a detector...

It is not convenient to hire a detector as i live far from somewhere that does that...

The geology is a reef running along the top of a hill....there are some 6 old mines in the area including one open

Because its a fair (strenuous!) walk in I am not expecting a ton of trash but there will be old timers trash and bullets etc..

of course I expect other people to have detected there before but probably not lots as it is a bit off the main tracks...

I planned to sniff around the mine sites, and up and down the creeks running from the hill....

my question is........ drumroll...

Whilst reading it would seem a good VLF detector (gold bug, GMT, Terra 705) would suit these conditions, where the gold is probably still wrapped in quartz....

But I constantly read that VLF's are no good here in OZ.....but there are many conditions here too.....the top of a NSW hill is different to Hillend, or Western Australian goldfields.....

I can afford a second hand VLF, but can also stretch to a used SD2000 or whites SPP.......which style do you think would give me most success hunting in this style of terrain.

Many thanks for all your opinions...

Steve

 

[Ben78]

Can't answer without knowing the individual mass of the gold. Most PI machines need at least 0.1g single mass gold pieces to detect. VLF needs a lot less but is also very susceptible to changes in the ground - including rocks.

I use a VLF gold machine over bedrock where you have a very consistent ground signal. Once you get onto normal earth the rocks and everything make it too hard to detect. On the other hand a PI machine mostly ignores the varying ground and only sounds off on metals.

Generally though for reef gold a VLF will work fine but it has a steep learning curve that many people fall off of and won't go back to (and happily tell any one that'll listen that VLF is no good)

 

[Ben78]

Which gold field is the area you are working? Others may have experience in the area and can let you know what works there.

 

[casper]

I have a spot I have researched and am keen to go and scout around with a detector...

It is not convenient to hire a detector as i live far from somewhere that does that...

The geology is a reef running along the top of a hill....there are some 6 old mines in the area including one open

Because its a fair (strenuous!) walk in I am not expecting a ton of trash but there will be old timers trash and bullets etc..

of course I expect other people to have detected there before but probably not lots as it is a bit off the main tracks...

I planned to sniff around the mine sites, and up and down the creeks running from the hill....

my question is........ drumroll...

Whilst reading it would seem a good VLF detector (gold bug, GMT, Terra 705) would suit these conditions, where the gold is probably still wrapped in quartz....

But I constantly read that VLF's are no good here in OZ.....but there are many conditions here too.....the top of a NSW hill is different to Hillend, or Western Australian goldfields.....

I can afford a second hand VLF, but can also stretch to a used SD2000 or whites SPP.......which style do you think would give me most success hunting in this style of terrain.

Many thanks for all your opinions...

Steve

A lot of gold was liberated by VLF dectors here in Australia before the advent of PI detectors including (i think?) the Hand of Faith nugget. So buy what fits your pocket and just get started...

casper

 

[Twapster]

Hi Steve, a VLF will find gold.....it will find it very well in particular speci and reef...

The problem I find with a VLF is sensitivity..... if you don't know how to use your machine very well it will squeal on a lot of other things. One method is to dumb it down, so you don't get as good a depth but it doesn't squeal on everything.

In highly mineralised areas a VLF can just chatter so much you cant hear anything discernible, a PI machine will be much quieter on the mineralised dirt and just make a noise when it hits a real target.

A good method of preparing yourself is to buy a nugget say half gram, and have this at all times when prospecting to "check" what gold will sound like. You can play with this at home in the yard or park just to get a feeling of what the target ID will read....lead is also very similar so you can use a flattened split shot if u don't want to buy a nugget.

Ofcourse you need to dig everything but lets say with an exterra70, in discrimination mode a -8 is going to be iron but a signal of 10 is exciting or a ring pull. Its all about learning your machine and knowing that the VLF in the gold fields can be as frustrating as the whining girlfriend you may have had in high school. Once you understand her a little better u know when to zone out and when to listen! Hope that makes sense.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I have a spot I have researched and am keen to go and scout around with a detector...

It is not convenient to hire a detector as i live far from somewhere that does that...

The geology is a reef running along the top of a hill....there are some 6 old mines in the area including one open

Because its a fair (strenuous!) walk in I am not expecting a ton of trash but there will be old timers trash and bullets etc..

of course I expect other people to have detected there before but probably not lots as it is a bit off the main tracks...

I planned to sniff around the mine sites, and up and down the creeks running from the hill....

my question is........ drumroll...

Whilst reading it would seem a good VLF detector (gold bug, GMT, Terra 705) would suit these conditions, where the gold is probably still wrapped in quartz....

But I constantly read that VLF's are no good here in OZ.....but there are many conditions here too.....the top of a NSW hill is different to Hillend, or Western Australian goldfields.....

I can afford a second hand VLF, but can also stretch to a used SD2000 or whites SPP.......which style do you think would give me most success hunting in this style of terrain.

Many thanks for all your opinions...

Steve

Steve they will work there, But If I was going to buy one I would buy the MXT and my second choice would be the GMT,

The reason I say the MXT is because it has the same ground tacking and Prospecting program and the GMT was Built on The research that went into the MXT, Also it has a Lower frequency than the GMT, So by having a lower frequency it wont be bothered by the Ground as much, And It is the Best all round nugget machine, There are over 16 coils available for it, And the manual says the Batteries last for up to 40 hours that's Not Right, I never Got Less than 57 Hours out of mine and they still had enough power to go another day, And you are walking that far then you need that type of performance,

If the ground is Hot then go with the SPP and use the whites 7.5 Coil or if you can get one of the RazorBack coils/Miner John Folded Mono coils, NF make some real Great Coils Too, But these are the only Machines I would consider seeing as you are only investigating the Area and they will serve you well for many years until your needs Grow, then you can move up to the TDI Pro, Garrett ATX and of Coarse MineLab Machines,

Hope This Helps, John

 

[GaryO]

Pretty much what the others have said , I used a Fisher Goldbug for years , yes it did get noisey at times but because I knew it so well I could always tweak the settings and ground balance to make it pur along a bit smoother. I went on to an SD2000 and I was useless with it and never fully mastered it.
So pros and cons with both types of early machines. If u can stretch it I would go for at least an SD2200d rather than the 2000, a good stable machine which is easy to learn and has auto ground balance and discrimination.
But yes a vlf is fine , but research the best one for you , and be patient learning .

 

[Stevoggo]

Wow .... Great quick replies guys... I only posted this around 11 last night! Ha ha

Thanks for the advice, will take it all on board.... I get the picture that all machines require practice and skill, I am prepared to put in the time. I am also reasonably young (42?!) so I feel as long as I buy a solid machine of either style I will have it for a long time and can always add to my arsenal later.

I love the comment about your old girlfriend! .."you will know when to zone out and when to listen" it cracked me up."

I also appreciate the time you guys took to write your replies... im glad it's more complex than "you live in Australia can't use vlf"

Thanks again

 

[20x]

a few weeks ago i was detecting some heavily mineralise ground with an x-terror, what i found really interesting was the strong hot rock signals i was getting from the granite. i had panned the decomposed granite fines previously and was also amazed by the average of 2 table spoons of black sand i was getting per shovel.
there is ironstone present to but im just wondering what exactly was making the granite so hot?

 

[mbasko]

Are you sure that it was granite? Granite is low in iron content but other igneous rocks, like basalt, are high in iron & magnesium.
Basalt can/will play havoc with any detector - PI or VLF. There are a couple of spots around my "local" area with basalt making detecting harder (but not impossible). Trying to use my old Whites GMT VLF there was very difficult as it was extremely sensitive to the basalt & other pockets of hot ground. Did get a few little bits there but higher up away from the low lying area where the basalt sits. Have pinged a nugget in amongst it with the SDC but the SDC also loves these rocks whereas it is usually no problem in "hot" rock areas.

 

[old hand]

When I started detecting VLF were the only detectors on the market many oz of gold were found with them Australia wide what have you got to loose ,some VLF were good on small gold and others on larger pieces depending on the frequency yes they do have trouble with mineralization and lack of real depth but the modern VLF detector must be a big improvement on what we were using regards john

 

[Ridge Runner]

When I started detecting VLF were the only detectors on the market many oz of gold were found with them Australia wide what have you got to loose ,some VLF were good on small gold and others on larger pieces depending on the frequency yes they do have trouble with mineralization and lack of real depth but the modern VLF detector must be a big improvement on what we were using regards john

Absolutely, A PI is not the be all and end all of detecting, It's just that we Know that they exist So we just have to have that Power, The MXT is a Killer of a Machine and has been since 1998 +/- a year or Two and so much so Minelab explored it's Potential, and it has found more Gold in Alaska than any other Detector made, and then there is the Lobo that's held its own for many years, So baring in mind these Detectors are still made today They must have something special up their sleeve's, If I had to have one detector that would be one of the new MXT's, I must admit I have found more with those machines than any other that's for sure.

John

 

[silver]

Which country do you hail from Stevoggo ?

 

[PhaseTech]

Posted this by accident as well in the Eureka Gold thread.

In my opinion a gold VLF is best used as a tool for three different scenarios:
1. Trashy areas
2. Bedrock sniping
3. On reefy/porous gold

The problem is, no single VLF will excel at all those tasks.

The X-terra 70/705 and MXT would be the most versatile all-rounders but both have an Achilles heel when it comes to satisfying scenario 3. An operating freq under 20 khz is not going to be any better on specimen or porous gold than a good modern PI is (especially the SDC). Maybe in non-mineralised soils where you can really crank up the Sensitivity the 15-20 kHz VLF's can still do okay, but I'd put my money on a Goldmaster's 50 kHz or Eureka's 60 kHz any day of the week.
But to try and answer your question Steve, I think a VLF may work okay, but it is just too limiting. Even in spots where they may appear to be working okay they are not punching into the ground.

For your budget I'd say snap up a SD2100 (preferably an "e" or V2 version as they are newer). Put on a good set of headphones and a 10x5" mono and you will be running smoother and deeper than most VLF's and will still get very good sensitivity.
If your budget can extend to a GP extreme, than even better. But if you'd rather buy new, the only PI in that price range is the Whites SPP. I haven't used one so can't comment on how it will perform.

 

[LC76]

I'm sure it's my lack of experience but I only ever found lead and rusty iron with my 705 the moment I changed to the SDC 2300 I started finding gold.
So based on that I would recommend a pulse induction machine like the SPP.

 

[20x]

Are you sure that it was granite? Granite is low in iron content but other igneous rocks, like basalt, are high in iron & magnesium.
Basalt can/will play havoc with any detector - PI or VLF. There are a couple of spots around my "local" area with basalt making detecting harder (but not impossible). Trying to use my old Whites GMT VLF there was very difficult as it was extremely sensitive to the basalt & other pockets of hot ground. Did get a few little bits there but higher up away from the low lying area where the basalt sits. Have pinged a nugget in amongst it with the SDC but the SDC also loves these rocks whereas it is usually no problem in "hot" rock areas.

larger boulders top left of pic, no foliation, fine conglomerant, definately granite? mermering hot rock signal if i went closer than approx 700mm...is this common?

the basalt bedrock is a long way down at this spot!

has the black sand and gold at eldorado possibly come from the decomposition of the granite?

 

[mbasko]

I've never had boulders like that signal so not common for me? Could be gabbro? Maybe one for the geos.
The black sand could be black mica from the granite? The granite might host gold bearing quartz but it's probably unlikely to come from the granite itself.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Posted this by accident as well in the Eureka Gold thread.

In my opinion a gold VLF is best used as a tool for three different scenarios:
1. Trashy areas
2. Bedrock sniping
3. On reefy/porous gold

The problem is, no single VLF will excel at all those tasks.

The X-terra 70/705 and MXT would be the most versatile all-rounders but both have an Achilles heel when it comes to satisfying scenario 3. An operating freq under 20 khz is not going to be any better on specimen or porous gold than a good modern PI is (especially the SDC). Maybe in non-mineralised soils where you can really crank up the Sensitivity the 15-20 kHz VLF's can still do okay, but I'd put my money on a Goldmaster's 50 kHz or Eureka's 60 kHz any day of the week.
But to try and answer your question Steve, I think a VLF may work okay, but it is just too limiting. Even in spots where they may appear to be working okay they are not punching into the ground.

For your budget I'd say snap up a SD2100 (preferably an "e" or V2 version as they are newer). Put on a good set of headphones and a 10x5" mono and you will be running smoother and deeper than most VLF's and will still get very good sensitivity.
If your budget can extend to a GP extreme, than even better. But if you'd rather buy new, the only PI in that price range is the Whites SPP. I haven't used one so can't comment on how it will perform.

I read your test on the Eureka Gold back in 2005/6 and I have wanted one ever since, But the Dealers kept making excuses not to get it, I had all ML's VLFs and that was the only one missing, And I still think it is a ground breaking Machine.
And of Coarse (The Golden Hawk)

john

 

[PhaseTech]

The Golden Hawk is the smoothest VLF ever made!

 

[Ridge Runner]

The Golden Hawk is the smoothest VLF ever made!

I would love to have one of those and I would pay the freight for it to get here,

John