Are we being watched?

[shivan]

G'day all, another subject I wanted to touch on and get peoples thoughts.
On a few forums I have been a member of often debates about dredging and a few other topics got shut down with people saying to be careful as greenies read the forums looking for ammunition to shut us down.
Now iam not saying this would not be true, but I can not see in any way how "speculation" and "debate" on an internet forum could be used against us, (iam talking about debating topics not boasting about preforming illegal activity's).
So what do you guys think? Are people overly paranoid or should we be scared about what we wright?

 

[Nugget]

I can't see the Greenies using an Internet discussion board as grounds for taking legal action against a prospector or using it as ammunition for a change in law.

90% or more (at a guess) of what is posted online is made up or dramatised anyway, so for anything posted on the forum to be used in the court room would be highly unlikely. (That is just my personal opinion, I could be wrong though and it probably wouldn't be the first time or the last )

I don't mind members discussing the process of dredging and the equipment that is used as long its not "oh, so I dredged my local creek over the weekend". This will continue to acceptable until such time when / if we start receiving take down notices, then it might become a problem.

Great topic for discussion by the way

Disclaimer: If anyone is worried that what they are doing might be considered illegal, my advice is to stop and double check with the relevant authorities. And if in doubt of whether or not your post might breach any rules or laws, it's probably best not to write it. You could also send me a PM and we can look into it.

 

[shivan]

Yes it just seem's funny to me that people believe there are spy's out there hanging on our every word or that the government would implement policy based on discussion from online forums.
Just my personal opinion though

 

[Gold miner]

I've been a mod on a site for many years, its a satellite site, and it is a site whereby members in the sth Pacific, monitor satellites, regularily scanning them for any new activity.
Many years ago, I was moving the dish, (electronically, motors, actuators etc..) I was watching the spectrum analyser as the dish moved across the arc...
Now I had done this hundreds, if not thousands of times before... I know what the spectrograh of each satellite looks like, and its kinda boring really waiting for a big dish to labour its way across the sky.
Anyway, a spike of activity popped up on the analyser... Huh? I thinks.... I stopped the dish and sent it back the other way, homing in on this 'new?' signal..
Once locked on it, I hit scan on one of the satellite receivers....
A few minutes later I had a picture of some sort of ground station control room...
It was simply a camera pointing into the room, transmitted by satellite.... bloody expensive webcam eh?
So, I posted it up because it was not in an orbital slot that should have an active sat in it....
Over the weeks, many others would move their dishes over and moniter this strange bird... many arguments and strong debate was had as to what this bird was.. it was temporarily named after me!!!
One day, the camera was taken down and Star movies was transmitted (The indonesian version of Foxtel movie channel!)
What a score!!! Free movies 24/7!
Anyway, Christian Lyngmark of Lyngsat (reknown satellite logging/info website) emailed me from Switzerland (or maybe Sweden) and asked me to advise on the parameters of this bird as he had to get it confirmed before it could go on his database...
A day later, the camera came back...movies gone!!!
The camera was trained on a white board with a scribbled message in Indonesian!!!
Basically is was "thanks for nothing" and a message that no more movies would be aired!!!!
We worked out what satellite it was, it was a disused Palapa bird that every one was waiting to powerdown and drift off.....but some smarty decided to fire it back up for a play!!
So someone was reading the site, someone that knew about that bird, and had it stopped!!

We have had this very same dicussion on that forum too!

 

[joe]

Shivan, you've got nothing to worry about mate,historical archive of more than 100 billion posts and each ISP's crawler collects more than 16 million new posts every hour. Saying that I agree with Nuggets Disclaimer.

 

[Nugget]

Interesting read GM.

Public forums are just that, public... and so I always advise people to execute caution when posting anything online no matter what the site.

I think in a legal sense the information posted on discussion boards such as ours is as good as useless.... UNLESS it directly implicates yourself in an illegal act, in which case it would probably provide grounds for further investigation. I can't say for sure though.

 

[joe]

Shivan, (your topics aren't on the list)
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/btl/top-374-keywords-the-u-s-government-monitors/78417

 

[Ditherer and Son]

Well, now I am too scared to publish my expose on Bunga Bunga parties with underage chickens....

 

[Gold miner]

Interesting read GM.

Yeah, brought back a memory! I just re-read all 14 pages of that thread...2005!!!! wow time flies when yer gettin' old!!
Here's a piccy!

Control room

wonder if that fella knew he was being watchd....literally!!

And this was on the white board...

(Written on whiteboard)

TV ACEH : 16.00 17.30 EVERYDAY - F4

PERHATIAN!

UNTUF INCLINED JGH DI KASIH GAMBAR FILM
CUKUP DARI CAMERA SAJI.




(On bottom of screen from signal generator)

 

[WalnLiz]

G'day all, another subject I wanted to touch on and get peoples thoughts.
On a few forums I have been a member of often debates about dredging and a few other topics got shut down with people saying to be careful as greenies read the forums looking for ammunition to shut us down.
Now iam not saying this would not be true, but I can not see in any way how "speculation" and "debate" on an internet forum could be used against us, (iam talking about debating topics not boasting about preforming illegal activity's).
So what do you guys think? Are people overly paranoid or should we be scared about what we wright?

In Australia we have a fundamental right,..and it's called "freedom of speech " :| .This entitles us to publicly voice our opinion and this is in no way against the law. Defamation and Freedom of Speech are two different issues with a fine line dividing them. Common sense will usually tell you when you're crossing that line.Cheers Wal.

 

[shivan]

Some interesting thoughts.
Remember I never said the site's were not being monitered 8)
I guess I just hate seeing a good debate (not argument) shut down with people worried about who will see these handful of opinions.

Not everyone is going to agree with each other, I find it very interesting on the subject of dredging the amount of prospectors against it, and getting people to talk about the pro's and con's nicely can be hard. But I still don't see how things like that could be used against us.

 

[shivan]

In Australia we have a fundamental right,..and it's called "freedom of speech " neutral .This entitles us to publicly voice our opinion and this is in no way against the law. Defamation and Freedom of Speech are two different issues with a fine line dividing them. Common sense will usually tell you when you're crossing that line.Cheers Wal. smile

Wal, apart from freedom of speech we do have to look out for things like forum rules. One site has banned any talk of any form on dredging. I can understand them not wanting idiots boasting about illegal activities but I think stopping any sort of debate about it by banning the topic alltogeather is just silly.
Another thing I guess about freedom of speech is that everyone has it.... and unfortunately there seem to be a number of people who use this to voice unfounded and sometimes just stupid opinions to try and stir things up either out of ignorance or for a laugh.
Better say after that iam not refering to this site in any way and not pointing fingers anywhere, just a few things been on my mind of late.

 

[Mystyk59]

In Australia we have a fundamental right,..and it's called "freedom of speech " neutral .This entitles us to publicly voice our opinion and this is in no way against the law. Defamation and Freedom of Speech are two different issues with a fine line dividing them. Common sense will usually tell you when you're crossing that line.Cheers Wal. smile

Wal, apart from freedom of speech we do have to look out for things like forum rules. One site has banned any talk of any form on dredging. I can understand them not wanting idiots boasting about illegal activities but I think stopping any sort of debate about it by banning the topic alltogeather is just silly.
Another thing I guess about freedom of speech is that everyone has it.... and unfortunately there seem to be a number of people who use this to voice unfounded and sometimes just stupid opinions to try and stir things up either out of ignorance or for a laugh.
Better say after that iam not refering to this site in any way and not pointing fingers anywhere, just a few things been on my mind of late.

Thankfully mate this forum is made up of sensible people who use their commonsense and Nugget and the others will maintain that standard for us. None of us want idiots or troublemakers on here and they wont be tolerated , which is why myself and the rest of us stick with this forum. When ever i log on there is always at least one of the regulars on here so anything untoward will i am sure be stamped on quickly

 

[WalnLiz]

Agree with you Ian....I'm talking about the "Greens" debate. Talking and debating on Illegal activities such as dredging is a lose / lose debate. Bit like debating a speeding ticket. Not worth wasting your breath as the outcome has already been decided. The day "will" however come when we will all have to debate the pros and cons of Hi-banking, as this is right on the edge of heading down the same path as the dredges. Then after that we will be fighting to find a stream where we can use our Gold Pans . Debating whether i should remain a prospector or studying to become a "Ranger"...Cheers Wal.

 

[Ditherer and Son]

Power Ranger Wal? There's an outfit I have just got to see on a 22g detector dig vid.

 

[Ag Man]

Forums do get visited & watched by groups not interested in prospecting(in the way we are...).
Hear about it from time to time. Sometimes it's a good thing. Eg: on a trailbike forum I used to frequent, there was a DSE Vic employee who openly admitted he was surfing the forums. Not to keep check on us but how to work better together. That was part of his job.

Only thing to be carefull talking about is actual meeting times & places.
We would organise a ride, say where we'd meet, what time we would ride off & estemate how long a ride it would be.
Little did we know thiefs also watched our forum & knew their window of oppertunity to go thu our cars & toolboxes.

Other times in the most remote place we'd have police turn up for licence, rego checks - 10 minutes after our stated meeting time... No probs with that coz we all had rego & licences but the must have read the forum to find us where they did.

Meeting spots & times/vehicle safety would be simmilar with prospecting. You got a pump going or headphones on, away from your car, camp etc. Usually out of sight from your camp/cars...

Just saying not to give too much of your location/times away.

 

[WalnLiz]

Totally agree with you Marty in respect of giving away too much info. If you want to find me out in the field your first name would have to be "Shirlock". As for political parties and the such, visitation to forums can sometimes be an eye opener to them as they get a few different sides to what is a sometimes a one sided story. So long as it's kept in the best interests of our hobby and in a non biased content, then i can see more good than harm coming from it. Cheers Wal.

 

[sluice_goose]

Im on a few forums that have been the subject of the media over the past few years. Not the forum its self but the subject matter.

The anti's supposedly have a way of spinning photo's or posts around and using them against us. They have no rational thoughts and a spun story in the right area sows a seed that can't be undone.
As an example, they could take a photo of a hole that has been dug into the side of a bank with a highbanker in the backgroud and run a story about erosion and destroying habitats.
Now we know thats not the case because the next major flood is going to totally change the whole area like it has for the last million years but the anti's wont mention that and all the followers will stick to the erosion story.

I have in the past seen photo's that have been used by the anti's and are totally unrelated to their claims about the photo but has been portrayed as a negative image.
A positive point is most are posted on some unknown blog site and never makes main stream media.

 

[Croc]

there is an upside to the forums being monitored in that hopefully it will show that we are a sensible, ecologically responsible group who self regulate for a sustainable hobby. it may also help regain access to ares currently closed, if we can prove through continuing posts that we do look after the bush.

 

[sluice_goose]

Only bad thing is people only remember the bad stories.

Our positive well behaved manner is normal so its over looked becasue nothing stands out. Something negative stands out like a 3 oz nugget in a gold pan.

To put it into perspective. I Dad and I can shoe 1000 horses and do a bird of a job on each and every one but If one of us prick the one of those horses, we're the worst in the world.

The 1000 good horses were shod to the best of our ability but no one comments because that's what is expected.