Quick Newspaper Poll on Victorian Great Forest National Park

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Sometimes I wonder if we do more harm than good with Forums open to all and sundry to see. I voted no, and we are a ways behind on the no vote. Our enemies out there can read every move we make trying to make a united stand.

I know Harri would be reluctant to agree on locking the forum away from prying eyes but deep down I think being almost 100% public and very loose membership threshold translates into poor outcomes at times.
 
There would be many more "REFERENCE AREAS" where you can only look at the trees from a distance. Then it will only be arrogant ar$eholes that will get to see these areas, you know the people that don't fill in their holes and don't give a damn about what damage they do, and the rubbish they leave. I don't believe that the majority of prospectors fit into this category but nobody will be there (prohibited areas) to help promote responsible eco friendly recreational activities. Ken.
 
I wasn't going to bother writing something about this but you have spurred me into it Old GT (in a good way).

For the prying eyes that are watching I can see that you will see some hard line views in this forum. But in all arenas of life you will find extreme views about gay marriage, logging, animal welfare, politics, religion, etc and so it is on this forum. There will be those that are for and against but the majority are probably somewhere in between. And 'somewhere in between' is where I am on this issue.

I have voted no but...probably because I am worried about the people in the "lock everything up" camp that have the extreme views. I would also be just as worried about the extreme 'lets bulldoze the lot, log every tree, find every bit of gold' camp as well but legislation these days has pretty much put a stop to those practices. There will always be some that push the boundaries (a recent thread about dredging for example) but for the main part the people of the prospecting world are reasonable, courteous and law abiding.

The actual matter at hand:
I guess my main point (or question) in this debate is 'what is the point' of the National Park? In state forest presently I cannot cut down a tree, I can cut firewood but only if it is a directly sanctioned firewood collection area within the allowed season, I am limited by CFA fire danger ratings as to when I can have camp fires and encouraged to use provided fire pits, I am required to remain on roads/tracks, I must have a road registered vehicle, I can prospect but only within the confines of a miners right and they are fairly restrictive (e.g hand tools).
As far as I can see the only difference between that and what I can't do in the Bendigo National Park is that in a state forest I can shoot feral animals, take my dog in there and there is probably different legislation as to areas that may 'potentially' be logged by the State Forests Dept (or whatever they are called).

So what will a National Park do? It will stop me taking my dog for a walk and will allow foxes, pigs, deer, goats to breed unabated. Is that a win? Maybe it will stop me from detecting although there are about 6 national/historic parks where this is still allowed and I would hope this would be the case if this proposed national park was to proceed.

The big hallaballoo that was made over the mountain cattle was seen as a massive win for the high country by well meaning city folk who don't really have any idea what they are doing. How many cattle have been kept out?? Maybe 5,000?? There is now estimated to be over 1,000,000 breeding age female sambar deer in Victoria. Add in young females and all the males and potentially you have 2.5 million sambar deer running wild in Victoria. And a good portion of them are in the high country. And the suggestion is that fallow deer are going to be the next item on the 'population explosion' agenda. Have you seen what deer do to young trees, established trees, waterways (with their wallows) and moss areas with their hard hooves? But we stopped those pesky cattle that ate some grass and were only there for about 6 months of the year :rolleyes: I'm not saying the cattle didn't do any damage but why aren't these same people now up in arms about the deer?? Do they think they are native?? It's exasperating!!

I may have got off topic there :/

My point is, that is just one example of why honest, normal people who actually use the bush and have a vested interest in looking after the bush have a hard time voting 'yes' to something like National parks. We can just see that although the intentions may be good there is usually a fair few flaws in the final outcome. And those flaws usually result in those that love the bush, use the bush and care for the bush being the ones locked out.

"It will mean more tourists" is one of the things I have heard from some councils. What a load of deer droppings! Incredibly, the bush is actually there right now and anyone can use it - bush walkers, bird watchers, horse riders, families, old people, detectorists, etc, etc. Is it being used by all those groups? Proclaiming a National Park doesn't make it any more beautiful or appealing does it? It is already there - perhaps advertise that fact and see if it makes a difference to tourist levels first. Did making the Greater Bendigo National Park a national park do anything significant for tourism??? The only people I see out there are those with a detector in their hand or local horse riders.

A state forest is there for all to use and if the un-thinking, un-caring, littering, bush bashing, fire lighting, track wrecking fraction of our community intend on carrying out these activities it won't matter a fig what the name at the gate says. Legislation won't change those that don't give a stuff for others. Crime rates will vouch for that.

So, to the prying eyes that maybe watch this forum, does that give a different perspective? I'm not saying we are all perfect but we never will be. Perhaps the current situation is as perfect as it is going to be for the greatest number of the community as possible?

Food for thought?
 
I have voted no but...probably because I am worried about the people in the "lock everything up" camp that have the extreme views. I would also be just as worried about the extreme 'lets bulldoze the lot, log every tree, find every bit of gold' camp as well but legislation these days has pretty much put a stop to those practices. There will always be some that push the boundaries (a recent thread about dredging for example) but for the main part the people of the prospecting world are reasonable, courteous and law abiding.

That's why I voted 'Yes'. I think the forest as it is, for what ever reason, is better than clear felled area's and mono culture. Yes, there are the lock up camps and the nutty uneducated views, the greenies and stinking hippies and I know I wouldn't be able to fossick there. But I would love to be able to look out on,one of the few area's of unbroken forest while enjoying a smoke.
Thinking that loggers don't come in planning to clear fell in the long term is not understanding the practice. They will make sure they have to return if the timber is good.

Perhaps the current situation is as perfect as it is going to be for the greatest number of the community as possible

It probably is. But will the status quo remain? My biggest concern is once it is logged it's gone forever. And it will be logged. I think it's the best thing that Australia has some natural forest. But once it has gone,it will never come back.

So, to the prying eyes that maybe watch this forum

I doubt prying eyes would care. Probably a hippie forum doing exactly the same thing - watching the votes. Perhaps even one of them going "I vote 'No'. ;)

I don't disagree with anyone about what a 'Yes' vote may cost. But I just think the 'No' leaves an area to vulnerable. And area's like the BMNP are worth that little bit extra.
 
I think I agree with everything you've said Magoo ;)

So how do we keep an area accessible to the public for general use without allowing the loggers in so that the bush there remains somewhat natural/remnant? Although I don't reckon much of the Whipstick is natural remnant forest, mostly regrowth I'd guess?
 
That's the problem and I don't know the answer. The trouble is, there is no middle ground. It's either open to logging or the tree hugging brigade. Neither are right at the end of the day IMO or work with the activities that many of us wish to persue. But either way, while the argument goes on, I'd rather the forest stayed.
 
BUMP, click.......................No No NO from me!

My Nanny just told me:
I must pay a toll for using a public owed freeway because it will save me travel time.
(my taxes paid for the road and upkeep/upgrade)

My Nanny just told me:
I must hand in my legally owned semi auto 12g because it is too dangerous for me.
(now only semi autos are in possession of unregistered owners)

My Nanny just told me:
I cannot build on more than 50% of my land because it will make excess load on my drainage pipe.
(my neighbor can build 2units on a block mostly concrete paved and at 9 meters height only meters from fence line overlooking my backyard)

many, many more examples here...

Give an inch, take a mile!

Love the forest hate the politics.

Ps: mods edit if necessary
 
I thought that logging companies would have to make an application to clear and replant in state forest. Please correct me if I am wrong. Ken.
 

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