Why the big deal on Discrimination?

[hAyyoUinAU]

I don't see the big deal on discrimination. It is never perfect, and who is to say what may lay beneath that rusty iron nail.
Plus one of my favourite parts of detecting is the surprise element of what you may find. Good or bad. Treasure or Junk.

I have a VLF with discrimination. And it works... sometimes. The Makro Gold Racer. Great unit.
But to be honest, I ended up just digging every target in the end. And I am glad I did.

Just seeing what peoples opinions are regarding Discrimination.

Maybe we want something that digs the target out for us too

 

[BigWave]

With the GPX4500 I always detect with a mono so have discrimination fully off.
I've heard some horrible sounding targets which have turned out to be odd-shaped gold.
Also heard nasty multiples which I thought must have been wire but which turned out to be multiple spilt cons.
My creed: If you can't kick it away in the top soil, then dig it.
Even then, you might miss a few speccies.

 

[hAyyoUinAU]

Sounds about right to me

 

[Roscoe]

Some creeks, rivers and small gullies are loaded with iron, but also there is a lot of gold in between this iron. A good VLF with a good disc. system, I have personally found that this type of detector can work wonders in this sort of detecting environment.

 

[Ridge Runner]

I don't see the big deal on discrimination. It is never perfect, and who is to say what may lay beneath that rusty iron nail.
Plus one of my favourite parts of detecting is the surprise element of what you may find. Good or bad. Treasure or Junk.

I have a VLF with discrimination. And it works... sometimes. The Makro Gold Racer. Great unit.
But to be honest, I ended up just digging every target in the end. And I am glad I did.

Just seeing what peoples opinions are regarding Discrimination.

Maybe we want something that digs the target out for us too

The deal with discrimination you will soon begin to realize having spent around 10k on your new Zed you will want it to start earning it's keep and not digging 2 or 3 foot deep holes just to find a spam tin or an old paint can, in some ground conditions you can dig it all but in a lot of areas you will be wishing for some form of discrimination, Although your GR does not have the best discrimination even it will save you digging somewhere between 40 to 70% of the holes that you will be digging,

Your GR being a higher KHz machine will have trouble at times but it is still a great machine and if ground conditions allow you might want to go over the ground with it first and mark the targets that are junk and then go over with the Zed, that way you might be able to cut down on about 20 or 30% of the junk, Any thing deeper the Zed finds will be down to fate.

J.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Some creeks, rivers and small gullies are loaded with iron, but also there is a lot of gold in between this iron. A good VLF with a good disc. system, I have personally found that this type of detector can work wonders in this sort of detecting environment.

Amen to that, a PI etc should only be used if the VLF won't work, If Discrimination is not important then why do all the companies work so hard to perfect it ?

J.

 

[madtuna]

While discrimination does have its place, I've never used it and have no intentions to. Personally I couldn't care less if it was on my machine or not.

Some creeks, rivers and small gullies are loaded with iron, but also there is a lot of gold in between this iron. A good VLF with a good disc. system, I have personally found that this type of detector can work wonders in this sort of detecting environment.

Amen to that, a PI etc should only be used if the VLF won't work, If Discrimination is not important then why do all the companies work so hard to perfect it ?

J.

Because end users ask for it.

Why is the 7000 built like it is? Because that's exactly what we asked for.

Every time a machine has been out for a few years someone on most forums starts a thread "what do you want in the next ML machine"

Prior to the 7000 it was GPS, cordless, battery incorporated in the machine, same sort of design as the CTX3030, screen in front etc etc. Hell... we even told them what we were prepared to pay for it!

We got exactly what we asked for and then whined because it was too heavy and cost so much.

We asked for a bigger coil, they gave it to us. Then we whined because it was too heavy.

I wished they'd ask professional or full time prospectors what they wanted, but then they just adapt and use what they are given and say a little prayer to Lord Bruce Candy each night because no matter how heavy and unwieldy his latest offering is, they work so damn well. :Y:

 

[old hand]

Pi detectors do not have a effective discriminator and VLF struggle on depth but some do have good discriminators I have played around for many years trying to find the best option to detecting in junk with out digging every target. But in the end I just give up the junk wins .Pi I have found just dig the down singles this has been OK so far ,but there would still be some gold there regards john

 

[Ridge Runner]

While discrimination does have its place, I've never used it and have no intentions to. Personally I couldn't care less if it was on my machine or not.

Some creeks, rivers and small gullies are loaded with iron, but also there is a lot of gold in between this iron. A good VLF with a good disc. system, I have personally found that this type of detector can work wonders in this sort of detecting environment.

Amen to that, a PI etc should only be used if the VLF won't work, If Discrimination is not important then why do all the companies work so hard to perfect it ?

J.

Because end users ask for it.

Why is the 7000 built like it is? Because that's exactly what we asked for.

Every time a machine has been out for a few years someone on most forums starts a thread "what do you want in the next ML machine"

Prior to the 7000 it was GPS, cordless, battery incorporated in the machine, same sort of design as the CTX3030, screen in front etc etc. Hell... we even told them what we were prepared to pay for it!

We got exactly what we asked for and then whined because it was too heavy and cost so much.

We asked for a bigger coil, they gave it to us. Then we whined because it was too heavy.

I wished they'd ask professional or full time prospectors what they wanted, but then they just adapt and use what they are given and say a little prayer to Lord Bruce Candy each night because no matter how heavy and unwieldy his latest offering is, they work so damn well. :Y:

The GPZ is a great powerful machine, and they did ask full time prospectors what they wanted,

As I said the only way to dig less junk In Junk filled sites is to attempt to use a VLF first marking the junk targets first and then dig all the targets that the VLF can't reach and the ones that are ID'd as good, digging 150 junk targets in hard packed Aussie dirt is no joke, If a person can cut them down to around 50 targets by IDing about 100 of them then that has to be a good thing,

There is nothing tough or clever about doing it the hard way, It just wastes Time and effort when a person could be digging more good targets by being smart and using all the tools that are available to them.

 

[hAyyoUinAU]

Discrimination doesn't work properly. AT ALL....

I have had a couple VLF's and while my Makro Gold Racer has all the discrimination features, they are still always mostly wrong.

Its really guess work, and the only way to know for sure is to dig it out.

Gold doesn't behave the same and purity, shape, depth, environment will always be different.

There is nothing clever about expecting a machine to do the work for you. Even coins won't discriminate properly at all.

I think it is a gimmick and I would love to go dig all the targets that others leave due to discrimination saying junk.

 

[Ridge Runner]

Discrimination doesn't work properly. AT ALL....

I have had a couple VLF's and while my Makro Gold Racer has all the discrimination features, they are still always mostly wrong.

Its really guess work, and the only way to know for sure is to dig it out.

Gold doesn't behave the same and purity, shape, depth, environment will always be different.

There is nothing clever about expecting a machine to do the work for you. Even coins won't discriminate properly at all.

I think it is a gimmick and I would love to go dig all the targets that others leave due to discrimination saying junk.

Well if it can't discriminate properly then maybe a VLF with better Discrimination is needed,

Due to Iron staining on Gold the Disc on the GR would be a little more cautious, that seems to be a common trait of all LF Gold machines regardless of the brand, which is why lower KHz machines are better at ID'ing things,

It is not a gimmick and with the right machine you can make it work in your favour, your right there is nothing clever about expecting the machine to do all the work, The clever part is knowing the machine well enough and understanding what it is saying and using it to suit the conditions,

When you fire up that big beast you just bought you will be digging some big holes hopefully with huge lumps of yellow at the bottom, maybe a life changer is just around the corner, that would be a great way to christen that new machine.

good luck.

J.

 

[Bjay]

I think it all comes down to dollars invested in research versus dollars on return of investment. Reliable discrimination is probably achievable if the dollars were there but returns probly not, only have to look at how far we've come in aviation in a little over a hundred years, its mind boggling if you think about it.

 

[hAyyoUinAU]

Discrimination doesn't work properly. AT ALL....

I have had a couple VLF's and while my Makro Gold Racer has all the discrimination features, they are still always mostly wrong.

Its really guess work, and the only way to know for sure is to dig it out.

Gold doesn't behave the same and purity, shape, depth, environment will always be different.

There is nothing clever about expecting a machine to do the work for you. Even coins won't discriminate properly at all.

I think it is a gimmick and I would love to go dig all the targets that others leave due to discrimination saying junk.

Well if it can't discriminate properly then maybe a VLF with better Discrimination is needed,

Due to Iron staining on Gold the Disc on the GR would be a little more cautious, that seems to be a common trait of all LF Gold machines regardless of the brand, which is why lower KHz machines are better at ID'ing things,

It is not a gimmick and with the right machine you can make it work in your favour, your right there is nothing clever about expecting the machine to do all the work, The clever part is knowing the machine well enough and understanding what it is saying and using it to suit the conditions,

When you fire up that big beast you just bought you will be digging some big holes hopefully with huge lumps of yellow at the bottom, maybe a life changer is just around the corner, that would be a great way to christen that new machine.

good luck.

J.

I see your point regarding the Makro and higher frequency detectors being more cautious. But I also see plenty of guys who make great finds like NuggetNoggin and every time they have a bucket of trash they dug up.

If I had a dollar for all the times I have heard "It sounded like iron junk, but I decided to dig it up anyway and WOW look what I found", I would be rich.

Just saying. Its a lot better when it is right up close at the coil, but still, might as well just pick up the coin..lol

Good discussion though, and food for thought.

And big holes I have done, but no retirement nugget yet. ZED is still a virgin. :-( For now

 

[Ridge Runner]

Discrimination doesn't work properly. AT ALL....

I have had a couple VLF's and while my Makro Gold Racer has all the discrimination features, they are still always mostly wrong.

Its really guess work, and the only way to know for sure is to dig it out.

Gold doesn't behave the same and purity, shape, depth, environment will always be different.

There is nothing clever about expecting a machine to do the work for you. Even coins won't discriminate properly at all.

I think it is a gimmick and I would love to go dig all the targets that others leave due to discrimination saying junk.

Well if it can't discriminate properly then maybe a VLF with better Discrimination is needed,

Due to Iron staining on Gold the Disc on the GR would be a little more cautious, that seems to be a common trait of all LF Gold machines regardless of the brand, which is why lower KHz machines are better at ID'ing things,

It is not a gimmick and with the right machine you can make it work in your favour, your right there is nothing clever about expecting the machine to do all the work, The clever part is knowing the machine well enough and understanding what it is saying and using it to suit the conditions,

When you fire up that big beast you just bought you will be digging some big holes hopefully with huge lumps of yellow at the bottom, maybe a life changer is just around the corner, that would be a great way to christen that new machine.

good luck.

J.

I see your point regarding the Makro and higher frequency detectors being more cautious. But I also see plenty of guys who make great finds like NuggetNoggin and every time they have a bucket of trash they dug up.

If I had a dollar for all the times I have heard "It sounded like iron junk, but I decided to dig it up anyway and WOW look what I found", I would be rich.

Just saying. Its a lot better when it is right up close at the coil, but still, might as well just pick up the coin..lol

Good discussion though, and food for thought.

And big holes I have done, but no retirement nugget yet. ZED is still a virgin. :-( For now

Absolutely, one of the hardest things about this hobby is making the right choices IE machines, Settings etc, machines like the V3i give a person too many choices where the CTX and Deus have a nice balance.

Everyone seems to be doing well with the Zed so you won't be far behind them, It's one heck of a machine,

good luck,

J.

 

[Furphy]

I often think...will I ever be in this exact spot ever again? Usually end up digging it, I run all metal mode all the time on the at pro (American Version ) ,DD coil (5x8)because i like to hear everything and the fear any discrim lag!...don't know anything about gold detecting (I live in near bright vic..mainly alluvial)just relic hunting ...I used to be more picky years ago and my mate Carl used to dig EVERYTHING, well he has a ripper old square nail collection....full set of 1800s blacksmiths forgeing tool....axe heads..ect....now as most of the old sites around here that I detect are really small flat sites in the bush ,its worth digging a few bigger targets that are steel....also gotta have the sniper coil for really trashy areas!! I've heard the makro machine is good on the relics..good hunting guys....

 

[Twapster]

I will add to the debate. Those that say dig everything are usually rookies or OCD.......yep you heard it here folks from the Twapster. We all make mistakes, and sometimes the best finds are mixed in the rubbish heap. But , listen to your detector, and it will most times tell you what you need to know. They call me the horse shoe magnet because Ive found too many to discuss here, as you get better at detecting you soon realise which targets are better left in the ground.

Some will gasp and say oh no twapster u missed many a target....yep, I left that target for you. Dig screamers, dig everything! Do as I say, not as I do. You be the judge who be the fool.

 

[AngerManagement]

To add to the debate... ( I am with you Twapster )

It can take some time to know and UNDERSTAND what your machine is telling you... AND then toss in ground conditions etc and it can all change...

While I am not yet a chaser of Au I shudder when people say dig every thing... That to me is a shotgun approach and only good when your getting to know your machine.. Like some who imply they can repair electronics... replace all components = the system may work but you have not learnt anything or gained the knowledge to help to understand the fault or why it happened.

On the permission I have you can not do a swing without getting at least 4 to 6 hits with every swing and if you dug every thing; you would spend all day for next to nothing... I dig the good targets (some times still rubbish lol ) and if I miss one or two; that is nothing compared to what I dig and keep.

Even on the beaches, I no longer dig every thing... For those big deep iron signals; yes they could mask a good one... But to be honest those times are few and far between and I would rather be swinging and finding a few good targets; than digging iron and hoping there could be a good target that was hidden.

If you ever follow me, I am happy for you to dig the scrap and a few low value coins ( 5c 10c 20c ) or old coppers... And should you dig a Can or Deep iron and find a good target... 1/2 your luck, but what I find is my only cash flow, thus hunting has to be cost effective in addition to healthy exercise

 

[Heatho]

I know for a fact I have missed a nugget while using my ears for discrimination, because Shauno came along after me and dug it out. Discriminate in the goldfields at your own peril.

The beaches and parks are a whole different story where good discrimination means everything. I can cherrypick goldies, silver rings and all the good stuff all day though I know for a fact thast I would be missing gold jewellery. I don't dig every target in parks as the canslaw, ringpulls and other trash would drive you mad and there would be holes everywhere, but on the beach I dig about 90% of targets.

3 pieces of gold jewellery nearly escaped my clutches before I decided to dig them, these were a 12:10 signal which I thought was a bottletop, it was in fact a 15g 9k gold bracelet. Next up was a 12:05 signal which ended up being a 1.4g 9k ring, and last but not least was a near 7g 18k white gold ring which came up at 12:14 which I nearly always leave as that signal means a 10c coin, I dug it as there was nothing else around, not even trash, was quite surprised when there was gold in my hand. The only targets I 100% leave these days are 12:07 target which a 5c coins ansd even these could be gold occasionally but there are just way too many to worry about.

Great discrimination is needed for park and beach detecting but for gold detecting in the bush it would be great if there was reliable discrimination but there just isn't yet. Thinking you can reliably tell the difference between gold and junk is wishful thinking, in my opinion of course. I've been an audio engineer for over 20 years and I can't reliably pick the difference. Most people are looking for softer sounding more mellow targets and I agree sometimes these are gold, bring them closer to the coil and they will sound like junk by overloading the detector.

The nugget you don't dig you'll probably never know about unless someone comes after you, finds it and shows it to you. :lol:

Anyway just my opinion fellas.

 

[hAyyoUinAU]

Discrimination does not work properly. That is a known fact. And I have pulled up targets that others thought was junk.
I dig whatever I want to, which is based on location, surroundings and time. The sound/feedback the detector gives is key to shape and size but that is about it.

You will never ever know what you are digging out, it will always be a guess. Sometimes a good one, sometimes not.

And I have done my fair share of relic hunting and coin hunting and even in that field discrimination is pretty ordinary too.

Its a good gimmick though, just like my gold racer. I never use it in discrimination mode. ALL METAL BABY!!!!!!

THE ONLY WAY TO GO

 

[Heatho]

Try a CTX, the discrim is as good as it can be but not perfect as you have mentioned and I agree, I still dig a lot of junk with it but it helps me get the good targets between the junk. I'm sure I'd be surprised too by what I've missed but digging every target in parks is not practical, well not where I live anyway.