Selling gold - how, why, where

[user 4386]

No!
This is a hobby, some do well but MOST find very little.
If the tax man wanted to start taxing finds they would ALSO have to allow deductions for all associated costs ie. ten thousand dollar machines, accommodation, all travel expenses including spiked tyres, Prospecting clothes, licence, GPS systems, epirbs, picks, pointers, safety glasses, backpacks, sunblock, non metallic boots, snake gaiters, knee pads, 4x4 depreciation, caravan purchases, insurances of vehicle and van and the list goes on.

So if someone went prospecting and found $500 worth of gold they would be able to claim tens of thousands in associated costs and never pay tax on their actual jobs. I don't think THEY'RE (ATO) dumb enough to want the tax from that $500 Nugget.
I'm guessing here but there's probably only 1 in a hundred detectorists that make good money some do ok and most bomb and there are many. thousands of cupboards out there with almost and even new detectors sitting in them because the owners watched a gold show (where there's a lot of staging done) and found that the reality of finding gold is pretty tough, that's a lot of tax benefits.

I agree in general, But it is taxable, and you would have to be sure you were lucky enough to make any really major finds in the same year as you buy your detector, 4x4 etc or carry deductions over under a sole trader business (or show that you earn a steady income from it). A few hundred people make a living out of it in each state, but few make a fortune. More fun by far as a recreational hobby.

 

[allcables]

thanks guys for the insight replies. my misses tells me l spend more on fuel than l could ever find.
but l'm sure she really like the her time when l'm out looking for the yellow
cheers all

 

[Gold1hunter]

I agree in general, But it is taxable, and you would have to be sure you were lucky enough to make any really major finds in the same year as you buy your detector, 4x4 etc or carry deductions over under a sole trader business (or show that you earn a steady income from it). A few hundred people make a living out of it in each state, but few make a fortune. More fun by far as a recreational hobby.

I know there's a point where you are considered to be a professional but can't remember (because it doesn't apply to me) what the exact $ value of finds is, I think it was around the $30k mark where you would have to register your sole trader business, so if you don't sell it (gold) through an official buyer there's going to be no record and some just hoard it (how much did they find and when did they find it) so it all becomes a too hard basket. Who's got what buried in their gardens? I've met people who do this, I wonder if they've actually found it if it's still in the ground .
Also as 95% of all small business ventures go broke they still have all the set up costs that are deductible, I remember years ago of profitable businesses buying defunct businesses for a fraction of their set up costs and losses then putting all those costs and losses through their good business to evade tax then desolve the dud company. Point being where there's a will there's a legal if not a bit dodgy way.

 

[Hawkear]

I think also we should be aware that by law any transactions over $10K are reportable by designated entities to AUSTRAC which is responsible for deterring criminal activity by tracking the movement of money. The entities which have to advise of such transactions include banks and financial institutions, gambling, digital currency exchanges, and licensed gold buyers.
I do not know whether that info subsequently finds its way to the ATO.
When I last sold a substantial amount of gold back in 2014 to a gold refiner, I asked the taxation question and was advised that the hobbyist threshold was about $50K.

 

[Phil8303]

I think also we should be aware that by law any transactions over $10K are reportable by designated entities to AUSTRAC which is responsible for deterring criminal activity by tracking the movement of money. The entities which have to advise of such transactions include banks and financial institutions, gambling, digital currency exchanges, and licensed gold buyers.
I do not know whether that info subsequently finds its way to the ATO.
When I last sold a substantial amount of gold back in 2014 to a gold refiner, I asked the taxation question and was advised that the hobbyist threshold was about $50K.

Speaking from my old banking days (I used to work in banking fraud), the $10k reporting piece to ATO was not automatically reported. This may have changed, as it was more than a decade ago, but the austrac reporting is certainly true for any >$10k transactions. The royal commission into the sector probably has shifted the goalposts towards ATO auto reporting these days, but if they really wanted to catch crooks, they should start with the executives of the finance sector. I would never return to that industry; you could clean toilets and deal with less $H1T.

 

[SteveG]

Hi Everyone

I had the good fortune recently to find an 8 ounce specimen. It's a lovely water worn piece, specific gravity suggests 210 grams of gold.

I'm wondering how I would go about selling this to get the best price. Ie are there any avenues or markets where people looking for these kinds of nuggets look? And what do you think I could expect to get for it?

 

[Jaros]

Great find-I'm sure someone here will give the right advice. Keep watching.

 

[grubstake]

First off, congratulations on your magnificent find, Steve. I hope we'll get a chance to drool over some pics here soon, please.

I've never been to Cairns, but my understanding is it's a tourist town. Do you have high-end jewellers there who cater to the international visitor trade? If their window displays have Argyle diamonds, Broome pearls, opals, Aussie sapphires, gold nuggets, etc., those would be good places to have a chat to the manager, I reckon.

 

[Simmo]

Hey Steve, go see Bradfords mate, see what he will offer?
You may be surprised and at least then get an idea of it's value?

 

[Dean Mortimer]

I have sold some gold to various gold buyers as melted buttons, never tried eBay. Only sell some gold to fund something I need for prospecting as the boss "my wife" won't let me touch any of my other hard earned money in the bank. So what she don't know doesn't hurt.

 

[Hawkear]

If you are married then I suggest you put some of your precious towards some jewellery for the wife, like this ring I had made for mine.
Believe me when I say you wont regret it for an instant :inlove: O

You romantic devil!
I sold the lot except for a few show pieces! Bought the wife a palladium ring for our wedding.
Now I just save it until I have enough to buy a parcel of shares or put the proceeds into some another investment.
Gold is nice but finding it is nicer.

 

[Jeff]

2 years back I phoned the ATO and simply asked them “ Do I have to pay tax on any gold I find as either a hobbiest or professional prospector?” To which she said “What’s a prospector?” So she put me through to the manager and he put me on hold….Even after that with a lack of confidence he said “ Anything after the first find is classed as a subsidiary income and when it’s turned into currency is taxed the same as any other income “….. So I said “ what if I find 30 ounces on my first time out () ?” He said “sure, doesn’t matter!”….

I see the problem in it becoming visible dealing with larger amounts.

 

[Gold1hunter]

Everyone start saving all your receipts, equipment (detectors), fuel, accommodation (caravan etc) site fees, quads, side by sides, detecting clothes, sunnies, boots, snake gaiters, audio equipment, 4x4 vehicle, GPS etc! You can't find gold without them so they have to be legitimate costs to right off. Somehow I think the ATO would be a tiny little bit out of pocket!
Can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Jeff]

ATO-

 

[Dave79]

2 years back I phoned the ATO and simply asked them “ Do I have to pay tax on any gold I find as either a hobbiest or professional prospector?” To which she said “What’s a prospector?” So she put me through to the manager and he put me on hold….Even after that with a lack of confidence he said “ Anything after the first find is classed as a subsidiary income and when it’s turned into currency is taxed the same as any other income “….. So I said “ what if I find 30 ounces on my first time out () ?” He said “sure, doesn’t matter!”….

I see the problem in it becoming visible dealing with larger amounts.

Well I'll be waiting awhile for my 'first find '. If it's tax free I reckon it will be on my final prospecting trip!

 

[Gold1hunter]

Well I'll be waiting awhile for my 'first find '. If it's tax free I reckon it will be on my final prospecting trip!

I can see the headlines now!
Dave79 Went detecting for a weekend & got 32kg of sub Grammers & it's tax free

 

[Ubutey45]

What the eye don’t see the heart dont grieve

 

[geof_junk]

Well I'll be waiting awhile for my 'first find '. If it's tax free I reckon it will be on my final prospecting trip!

Knowing our luck they will change the rule by then.

 

[user 22230]

Reckon if I listed / claimed my SXS and quad I'd be paying capital gains My SXS has gone up in price 14K from 2022 to 2023 model. Second hand Honda TRX Quads sold for over 28K each in Auctions yesterday

 

[user 22230]

Qld Emerald auction that closed yesterday, note there is 8% Agents fee's on top of these prices, so that puts the 420 at just under 29K on pick up. Probably over 10K more than they were new. Mind boggles at what a 750 Quad would bring ? So if you were thinking of buying either, probably left it to late as those prices are just plain stupid. Polaris SXS top of range currently 49K+ plus 12 month wait on most makes and models demand is so high.