Sapphire advice needed please

[blayke]

ok guys so i have my 50ct Heart Sapphire and i have been speaking to a few gemmologists and cutters about the best thing to do etc but it is difficult to say being that the stone is a blue with green crosstable and is thick (8-9mm the whole way) under bright light some surface cracks/flaws and growth lines can be seen but upon further inspection all cutters and gemmologists have said they do appear to be only surface flaws and there arent any flaws visible in the middle at the moment.....however no-one ive spoken to has any specific information or wont guess about value either before or after cut other than one retired jeweller who offered me $2500 in rough (to which i kindly declined due to knowing nothing about the value lol) they have also mostly reccomended heat treatment to attempt enhancing the blue and removing the silkyness.

so my question would be in regards to the cut and size of cut value wise....say that the stone is perfect and can be cut to whatever i like.

valuation wise and ease of selling what is the best way to go about cutting. i have been told by 4 cutters that pending clarity and flaws i could get either
(1x 10-15ct round brilliant with 2 x 4-8ct round brilliant)
(1x 15-20ct emerald cut with possible 2 x 1-2ct round brilliant)
(3-4 x 4-8ct round brilliant

in terms of valuation on cuts does anyone have experience on what is preferential?
am i better or having a bigger brilliant? i have been told it may be near impossible to sell being that large

and before judgment the only reason i am wanting to sell and not keeping it for myself is that i am 26 recently divorced and have debts that i would love to clear to enable me to do more prospecting both gold and gems.... if i was debt free i would be keeping it!

 

[blayke]

i had about 1.5ct ground off the back (last photo) there is still alot of schist there which is the dark sections seen on pic #3 there is more on there but the guy said the cutter would take it off....

any advice is greatly appreciated

 

[Kingsolomon]

I'd go with the cutters advice , with what stones and cuts they recomend for resale , if you've seen four , go with the one that gave you the most time( probably reflect in the cutting ) or who rubbed off most pro or who you liked best... , I'd at least keep one stone for perso.

 

[blayke]

yeh.....cutters though have said the bigger stones would be worth more however may be very difficult to sell being that they could be worth anything from 200-2000 per carat when cut, most stones over 1ct seem to be around the $1000 per carat mark which means a 15-20k stone is pretty specialty and may be difficult.....just wondering if anyone has had experience selling some larger stones aswell?

good idea solomon i agree with the time thing, im also heading up for Gemfest.....

has anyone sent any bigger stones to Lamberts for cutting or any recent reports on cuts from them? heard at first they were a little dodgy however recently have been as good or better than many cutters in Sapphire CQ

 

[Twapster]

First of all, im no expert. Ive been looking at a lot of sapphires lately and pricing,

Some ridiculous prices here http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/sapphires/c-5-blue-sapphires/?pagenum=13

Looking at the shape, it appears flat and therefore suiting an emerald cut if you want the biggest carat. The prices go up exponentially if its a good colour.

Would I heat treat? Probably yes. If you loose just a little silk and gain clarity the stone will command much much more as a final product.

Who do you listen to? Thats a lot more research and a bit of gut feeling.

Yep a big stone may be hard to sell, 4 small stones much easier. I would hate for you to ruin a potential massive carat single stone with good colour by chopping it up, but then it may turn out crap. Smaller cuts will be safer and you can gamble on not heat treating.

Its definitely a gamble to go bigger carat, but the potential reward could be sensational. Heat treatment seems the norm. I certainly wish I had my last one heat treated as I believe I would have lost a lot of silk and the stone would have been 4 times the price.

I don't envy your decision but at some point you need to make a decision and get on with it, no matter what you choose here's hoping the outcome is special. A step cut such as an emerald cut will not shine as bright as a brilliant cut, and will reveal more flaws.

Therefore id be going the 10-15 round brilliant and crossing fingers. Have a look at some of the stone shapes in the above link and see if you can see your stone as any of them. Thats my 2 cents worth as a non expert!!

 

[blayke]

much appreciated Twapster! yeh i actually spoke to the manager/head design jeweler/gemmologist at a high end custom jeweler on the sunshine coast and the one thing he did say was that heat treating to remove the silkyness was the only certain thing to do....i asked about price affect and he said they sell treated stones just as easily as untreated.....the difference though is instead of having a $1000 untreated dark blue, you get a $4000 treated bright blue that actually sells easier because of the colour even with the possibility of it losing some of the colour in 5-10 years....

very much appreciate the opinion and i have been leaning towards a larger brilliant and if all turns out well just being patient to sell it.

thankyou! either way i will definately post up pics once i have decided and got it cut....

yeh some of those prices are ridiculous....mine will be a dark blue, however theyve all said the silkyness from the thickness could also be playing a large part in the stone being so dark and heating could change it

one last thing for anyone thats had heating done, ive been told to get the cut done to almost finished then get the heat treatment done to ensure and cracks or bubbles dont expand and shatter it....is this the best way to get it done?

 

[Kingsolomon]

much appreciated Twapster! yeh i actually spoke to the manager/head design jeweler/gemmologist at a high end custom jeweler on the sunshine coast and the one thing he did say was that heat treating to remove the silkyness was the only certain thing to do....i asked about price affect and he said they sell treated stones just as easily as untreated.....the difference though is instead of having a $1000 untreated dark blue, you get a $4000 treated bright blue that actually sells easier because of the colour even with the possibility of it losing some of the colour in 5-10 years....

very much appreciate the opinion and i have been leaning towards a larger brilliant and if all turns out well just being patient to sell it.

thankyou! either way i will definately post up pics once i have decided and got it cut....

yeh some of those prices are ridiculous....mine will be a dark blue, however theyve all said the silkyness from the thickness could also be playing a large part in the stone being so dark and heating could change it

one last thing for anyone thats had heating done, ive been told to get the cut done to almost finished then get the heat treatment done to ensure and cracks or bubbles dont expand and shatter it....is this the best way to get it done?

Yep , I'll message you when sending parcel for treatment , you can put it in that , bout six weeks away...

 

[Twapster]

Some reading and images just to confuse you more.....

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompan...treatments/before-after-photos-of-treatments/

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/education/common-sapphire-treatments/heat-treatment/

http://www.gemmountainmt.com/#!heat-treating/c1l2w

http://www.geo.sc.chula.ac.th/Geolo...PROJECT_GEOLOGY_2549/Paveena -REPORT-2549.pdf

http://www.palagems.com/gods_graves_sapphires.htm

http://www.navneetgems.com/Unheated_Sapphires_vs_Heated_Sapphires

http://www.bwsmigel.info/lesson8/de.gem.enhancement.html

Note that not all heat treated stones come out better and some are ruined by the treatment, but jesus if it does work you will have a 1 in a million sapphire.

"Heat treating is when gemstones are heated at very high temperature for anywhere from 3 days up to 6 weeks. This process can clean up silky / foggy stones and deepen the colors, but it can also sometimes fracture a nice stone or introduce a color in a stone that was not seen naturally. Many people love the deep color sapphires, most do not realize that these deep colors are rarely natural." source: http://www.capistranomining.com/index.php?act=viewDoc&docId=6

 

[Twapster]

much appreciated Twapster! yeh i actually spoke to the manager/head design jeweler/gemmologist at a high end custom jeweler on the sunshine coast and the one thing he did say was that heat treating to remove the silkyness was the only certain thing to do....i asked about price affect and he said they sell treated stones just as easily as untreated.....the difference though is instead of having a $1000 untreated dark blue, you get a $4000 treated bright blue that actually sells easier because of the colour even with the possibility of it losing some of the colour in 5-10 years....

very much appreciate the opinion and i have been leaning towards a larger brilliant and if all turns out well just being patient to sell it.

thankyou! either way i will definately post up pics once i have decided and got it cut....

yeh some of those prices are ridiculous....mine will be a dark blue, however theyve all said the silkyness from the thickness could also be playing a large part in the stone being so dark and heating could change it

one last thing for anyone thats had heating done, ive been told to get the cut done to almost finished then get the heat treatment done to ensure and cracks or bubbles dont expand and shatter it....is this the best way to get it done?

Mostly Darkish-Blue Sapphire are unable
to change in to lighter color by heat Treatment but Sapphire with
lighter color or colorless [ with slight presence of un-dissolved
chemical elements being in gemstones, such as Geuda ] can be
improved by treatment [ color and clarity ]. Most Sapphire rough
coming out of USA mines [ Montana ], no need to do pre-shaping
or trimming [to remove certain type of inclusion to avoid cracking,
shattering in high heat

source: http://www.gemcuttingservice.com/109045.html

 

[DanielGOLD]

Did you pull this out of the ground yourself??....If so what area or state even..?

 

[blayke]

Did you pull this out of the ground yourself??....If so what area or state even..?

sorry daniel havent been on a while....

yes mate i pulled it out myself up in Sapphire, central queensland...

 

[Bigbarra]

Hi Blayke,

Reading your find with earnest and congrats! I can't help you with value as it's so subjective but there is a cutter I use in Inverell who also heat treats for a very low cost (around $1.50 per carat). I recently had some stones returned and they turned out very well. Give Kate at the Gem Centre a call on 02 6722 1290. I recommend that whatever your decision as to who cuts it for you, you would be better for you to keep your stone in Australia. While Lamberts are pretty reliable (I've used them many times) it's still a gamble.

Hope that helps.

 

[bek]

Hello. Dug this sapphire and wondering if it is any good? I cant find any other pictures of one like it to compare. Any help would be appreciated

 

[blayke]

Hi bek. Looks like it's been cut on the sides...Also need to get some pics with light behind it to show a bit of clarity and color can't tell if it's any good with light and even then can still have small cracks only real way is speaking to someone local either lapidary club, local gemologist/cutter etc
At that glance and angle it does look like a bomb or not gem quality appears to have cracks through by the looks but can't be sure without light

 

[WalnLiz]

Unfortunately it's an opaque corundum crystal Bec and would not be facetable. They can sometimes be cabbed for a dress ring, but usually when they have growth lines they don't polish very well. Probably best kept as a specimen for your mineral collection.