mullock heap question

[Rodstar]

I wish i had taken a better photo. this heap is in a circle with the centre greatly depressed and there is another one right next to it with the centre depressed as you can see there are scrubs growing out of it. all along this creek there are piles of, mullock heaps next to the diggings...
my question is why are two mullock heaps together with depressed centres in them and all the other mullock heaps are piled up..these two circles are away from the other diggings. what are they? sorry if it sounds like a dumb question, im on a steep learning curve and seem to be doing more research than actually prospecting lol

 

[loamer]

based on the photo - these are deeper diggers holes and it looks like in this photo it is heading uphill. The rocks at the front look like the remains of wash. (round stones - water action generally). They may have followed a layer of wash that headed up hill, an old (as in ancient) creek line? These are just guesses without seeing the field I am sorry to say. What's further up the hill? Sometimes the old timers went off at angles following leads.

 

[Rodstar]

picture this.. they are next to a creek bed and it does go up hill. well goes upwards gradually. Further up this hill (about 50 metres away) are two puddlers? i think thats what they are called, created from brick with a concrete base that old timers used to break the clay to extract the gold...
Yes there are diggings all along the creek that run up along this hill too. it appears they dug up the hill away from the creek. These diggings have mullock heaps down at the creek end. the circles shown in the photo have no such diggings that go up the hill, they seem to be isolated away from the other diggings but very handy to the puddlers? hope thats the word..

 

[Rodstar]

actually loamer im taking the photo from the up side of the hill, you cant see it but the creek is over the back through the trees

 

[loamer]

That explains it I reckon - they are following a deeper lead. Think of a tributary to the creek line - they have followed it and its got deeper as they went. With loaming, the old timers went along the creek and tested as they went -when the gold got less and less they back tracked to the last sort of good concentration point and went off at angles to the creek line looking for the source. In the case of these, they probably bottomed out but spotted where the gold was coming from at a deeper level. Think of a very deep gold mine with branches in each direction - same sort of theory, they are following something. They did not dig for nothing and these don't look like test holes to me.

Puddlers are a very good sign that the gold was good and there was water about. In the surrounding hills are there any reef workings or does this gully run into reef workings? Either way I would have a red-hot crack around this area and probably the ground as it rises. Have you seen anything that looks like this? Its a costean trench where the old timers used to chase leads and cut across generally at right angles. In this case they found the lead and kept going up the hill. these are a good sign as well.

This is an old puddler - do they look round with a post hole? (yes there are ones some more recent ones about) If its a concrete vat, its probably a cyanide vat they used to use - hence the reason we never put gold in our mouths when we find it!!

 

[backcreek]

Hay Rod,
I'd say the old boys were digging down looking for the lead and the holes ended up that way because it is loose material.
There is a hole very similar to this where I fossick. The sides are so steep and loose if you climbed down you would have a hard time getting out again without a rope.

 

[Rodstar]

Ahh that explains it. I got it! Eureka!!!

then these holes maybe test holes then. Further up the creek away from these two holes, probably at least 150 to 200 metres away the trenches start. There are a series of trenches ( 6 trenches i think?) that run up the slope away from the creek, like your picture Loamer, except one trench in particular is probably three times deeper than all the others. Each trench has mullock heaps, usually down on the creek end of the trench, some mullock heaps are a little further up next to the trenches.

the puddlers are made of brick and yes there is a post hole in the centre of them, i think i put a picture of them up the other day.

wow guys that was awesome thank you

 

[Rodstar]

Hay Rod,
I'd say the old boys were digging down looking for the lead and the holes ended up that way because it is loose material.
There is a hole very similar to this where I fossick. The sides are so steep and loose if you climbed down you would have a hard time getting out again without a rope.

yes these holes are the same, i didnt want to move to the centre of them cause the material is very loose and i didnt actually know what was at the centre either, a bigger hole maybe, mineshaft....

 

[loamer]

You are on a good spot Rod!! It has everything you could want. Costeans are a very good sign. They are well worth a detect as well. As for the deeper holes - don't risk it. They could have false bottoms and judging by the height of the mullock compared to the depth of the holes, I would say the whole lot may give way. Mullock heaps are a very good way to learn how the geology works. If you see smallish holes that almost look like shovel holes (and I mean small) scattered about, its the old timers taking samples as well - loaming!! These are a good sign as well. An ounce a week to survive - they did not muck around wasting time for nothing - on the booze every night and chasing woman is not considered a waste of time either!!

 

[echidnadigger]

Hi Rodstar,
As usual Loamer is right on the money with his info. I will try to add a little to try to help you understand what was often going on back in the day. As stated, from the tell tail sign of washed river stone in the photo it does look like in this case they were chasing an old river bed. They dug down in certain places for different reasons but rarely for no reason. Small tell tail signs gave them a clue, just the same as they give us clues now. First we have to remember that the dirt on the top of the mullock heap came from the bottom of the hole. So sitting on the top is what they were digging down to. The gold bearing dirt from the bottom is often missing because it was taken away to be processed. This doesn't mean there is no gold on top as there could have been gold thrown out before they knew that they had hit the pay dirt. The easiest way for them to empty a hole is to throw the shovels full down hill. With this in mind remember gold is heavy so it will get thrown further. Check down hill from mullock heaps.

Why the diggings are up hill is because they were chasing the original river bottom. Keep in mind that a lot happens over time to an original water course. It can erode its way to new locations or the ground can shift as the earth moves and settles. (think earth quakes etc) They pick up traces of gold/color and start their process of elimination. First the easy gold is taken then the search starts for the course the gold took to get where it is. This requires sinking holes to find the original water course. A lot were fruitless exercises but some other holes paid off with persistence. Sounds like a lot of digging and hard work I know, but they worked hard back then.

Just a note of caution. These depressions in the middle can be a dangerous place to tread. If they went deep it is possible you are looking at a false bottom. Think for a moment when you look at these mullock heaps that it all came out of that center hole. How deep did they have to go to produce that amount of mullock heap? People have lost their lives by standing in the middle of these depressions only to have them give way to a deeper shaft and then they fell to their death. Don't think that big mullock = deep hole because all the dirt from a deep hole could have been taken to another location to be processed. Therefor a deep hole could still be just under a slight depression. It wasn't unusual for deep shafts to be covered with some timber and a bit of tin. Over the years this is covered with overburden and the timber and tin rots away.
Good luck and stay safe.

Wow. Just a quick edit. A lot got posted on this topic in the time it took me to type my post. Sorry if it repeats other posts.

 

[Rodstar]

- on the booze every night and chasing woman is not considered a waste of time either!!

Totally agree I love booze and woman, a fantastic mix! except my booze and woman have matured slightly and i dont really chase them anymore....lol

Alrighty then, I wont be able to get back to that spot for about a month or more... its it in the middle of bloody no where but it will be a great expedition!

Thanks for all your help I LOVE BEING A PROSPECTOR, I mean i love researching prospecting stuff and learning more about it cause one day i might actually find something wooo hooo!!!

 

[Rodstar]

Hi Rodstar,
As usual Loamer is right on the money with his info. I will try to add a little to try to help you understand what was often going on back in the day. As stated, from the tell tail sign of washed river stone in the photo it does look like in this case they were chasing an old river bed. They dug down in certain places for different reasons but rarely for no reason. Small tell tail signs gave them a clue, just the same as they give us clues now. First we have to remember that the dirt on the top of the mullock heap came from the bottom of the hole. So sitting on the top is what they were digging down to. The gold bearing dirt from the bottom is often missing because it was taken away to be processed. This doesn't mean there is no gold on top as there could have been gold thrown out before they knew that they had hit the pay dirt. The easiest way for them to empty a hole is to throw the shovels full down hill. With this in mind remember gold is heavy so it will get thrown further. Check down hill from mullock heaps.

Why the diggings are up hill is because they were chasing the original river bottom. Keep in mind that a lot happens over time to an original water course. It can erode its way to new locations or the ground can shift as the earth moves and settles. (think earth quakes etc) They pick up traces of gold/color and start their process of elimination. First the easy gold is taken then the search starts for the course the gold took to get where it is. This requires sinking holes to find the original water course. A lot were fruitless exercises but some other holes paid off with persistence. Sounds like a lot of digging and hard work I know, but they worked hard back then.

Just a note of caution. These depressions in the middle can be a dangerous place to tread. If they went deep it is possible you are looking at a false bottom. Think for a moment when you look at these mullock heaps that it all came out of that center hole. How deep did they have to go to produce that amount of mullock heap? People have lost their lives by standing in the middle of these depressions only to have them give way to a deeper shaft and then they fell to their death. Don't think that big mullock = deep hole because all the dirt from a deep hole could have been taken to another location to be processed. Therefor a deep hole could still be just under a slight depression. It wasn't unusual for deep shafts to be covered with some timber and a bit of tin. Over the years this is covered with overburden and the timber and tin rots away.
Good luck and stay safe.

Wow. Just a quick edit. A lot got posted on this topic in the time it took me to type my post. Sorry if it repeats other posts.

Thank you for the word of warning, i did feel something was not quite right about those piles. Now I will be extra careful around other mullock heaps too. thank you for your input it all helps put a picture in place on what happened in the day. i can nearly visualise the people and town and the workings of day to day life.
thanks echidna

 

[loamer]

Rod - that 3500 will be a killer in there. That mullock looks quite whiteish so should be quiet. With the geology, never think the bottom layers (bedrock) are even - they are not. Thats why they threw stuff out and missed it - they false bottomed or had thrown out several buckets before they got to the wash. If there any road cuttings or railroad cuttings around that area, stop and have a look at the layers of the ground. You will notice that very little is flat and even. That's what we are looking for on a patch for example - shallow nuggets and as the ground dips and drops deeper nuggets. That's why we chop and change coils when patch hunting - as flat and even as the ground looks, there are little dips and drops everywhere. Good prospectors think in 3D

My advice? Start making a basic map of the area and plotting various things with rough distances etc, directions things run, type of ground etc. Nothing flash - just judge or walk out the distances. Example - '50 steps north of digging xyz is a deep trench' You get the drift. Then you will find it all makes sense and hey presto - your first ever treasure map. I do it all the time - just rough maps, take photos, take bearings, look at the ground, around the trees, etc before I even get the 4500 out of the wagon. If you have time, spend a couple of hours just walking around and look at the diggings from various angles. Here is a tip - don't ever park in the same spot -you will get a different perspective.

 

[Rodstar]

Thank you, its all starting to make sense. You are right the land is not flat its undulating as it follows the little creek. my original thoughts is they dug this creek out down to the bedrock to extract the alluvial gold from the creek, just a guess. but now i see they also loamed and dug trenches away from the creek, generally in the low lying parts of the undulations.
Im glad you noticed the whitish on the heaps, i thought danger when i saw it cause it didnt look natural, but what is it?

 

[echidnadigger]

Rodstar,
The white clay is what is known as pipe clay. It sit at the bottom of the holes. Gold has a lot of trouble making its way through clay and therefor sits on top of it. Rule of thumb is, when you hit the clay you have hit the bottom. Not always the case as this could be a false bottom as there could be more layers below it.

Just another tip worth noting from this topic. Workings usually work there way up a slope and as a result they can show you the general direction of the run of the gold. Costeins (as pictured above) are a method used by prospectors to chase the run of gold. You will often see the workings running up a hill then see a square edged Chanel running 90 degrees to the run. These were usually done in an effort to cross the run of gold and loam the dirt for evidence of gold. They were kind of used as inspection points. They did not always follow the run correctly. However they didnt do them for no reason. There was gold already found nearby to warrant the effort to dig them.

 

[Rodstar]

Pipe clay huh! i thought it may of been a chemical reaction to something they did lol.
when i surveyed the area i didnt see any inspection points or 90 degree cuttings, but will eventually get back there and do a map as Loamer suggests, then piece it all together. i will check the costiens too and see how many layers they have dug through. it did appear they dug to the bedrock at some points in the costiens.
thank you guys you are gold!!

 

[echidnadigger]

Costeins are the inspection points I was trying to point out. They are one in the same.
From the spot you have described, you should find gold there. It has produced gold in the past and will in the future. Take your time, the grass is not always greener just over the hill so to speak. However the ground could be to deep for a metal detector or the gold may be to small.
Good luck.

 

[loamer]

To avoid confusion - its costean as in:

Full Definition of COSTEAN
Brit
intransitive verb
: to dig trenches or small pits through the surface soil or debris to the underlying rock in place for the purpose of exposing the outcrop of a mineral deposit and determining its course

 

[TenOunce Tone]

Rod, have a look a this page, it gives a good explanation as what Loamer and Echidna are talking about, I borrowed this from another post.. I have it bookmarked..

http://goldandcoindetecting.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=644

Good luck, looks like a good spot to hit a few big nuggets some decent placer gold.

Cheers, Tone

 

[loamer]

Tone - very good link.