Cooking with LPG inside a Caravan

[Rush]

After purchasing an old 1982 viscount caravan for use at a campsite out bush I am not sure whether to cook using the twin gas burner plate which had been screwed in place in a small compartment beside the sink that I assume was where the original type cooker item was placed.

Under the sink is another compartment where I assume the original fridge was placed and where I would place an LPG gas cylinder to run the twin gas burner plate.

There is a window behind the sink that would be opened during cooking and there are vents to the outside where the gas cylinder would sit.

I have done a test run connecting up a gas cylinder and checked using soapy water for any leaks and lit the gas burners and it all seemed to work okay.

Therefore would this LPG gas setup be safe enough to use inside the caravan as I have read of the risks of carbon monoxide so would appreciate any advice on if safe to do or what not to do?

 

[Digger Danny]

Best way would be to check with a qualified gas plumber, there more than likely one on this forum.

Cheers DD

 

[Ramjet]

In NSW you need a gas fitter's inspection for rego.

 

[Rush]

Thanks fellas for your replies so far.

The caravan has no rego and will be permanently at the campsite.

To explain the setup further the hose and regulator from the gas cylinder is connected straight to the inlet pipe on the gas plate with its twin taps and twin pipes that feed both of the round multi-holed gas burners.

Therefore would seem not to much that could go wrong except for a gas leak and if insufficient fresh air inside the van while cooking.

Also thinking about purchasing a carbon monoxide alarm similar in size to the fire alarms that screw to ceilings.
These type of alarms can have a LCD that can display a readout if carbon monoxide is present.

 

[Rush]

I suppose how dangerous is LPG gas cooking inside a caravan as a couple of mates reckon they would not cook inside a caravan using gas?

 

[AtomRat]

I'm not exactly sure of the main reasons but I certainly know carbon monoxide would build up if you had no air circulation, some people think its ok to use a gas heater for heating a tent or caravan / confined space and the gasses alone would knock you out or worse.

Did you see that Top Gear eppisode when jeremy was cooking in the caravan? It seemed to backfire or had and air pocket, I don't know..big explosions in the caravan and it set fire...the forum plumber ( if there is one ) should have an answer. One of us has gotta be a plumber hey..

Certainly by the looks of it, a proffessional needs to install it for you but I'd be wanting to know what dangers are involved as you are asking. Good question to ask mate, better to be safe if you don't know and ask

 

[condor22]

Modern vans are ok to cook with LPG. There are vents in the door down low and a vent/s in the walls up high and on the other side of the van.

There is a convection effect in drawing cooler air from the door vent, through the van and out the upper vent/s. Most also have a range hood to force cooking smells and gasses out of the van.

Cooking on gas for an hour will not build up dangerous levels of carbon monoxide, whereas a LPG heater down low, left on all night and down low probably will. (They use far more gas than a stove burner.

 

[goldtruck59]

we cook in our van all the time with LPG. We are however well ventilated and I think that's the secret.
LPG in confined spaces with no air and you wont last long.

 

[Wolfy]

I would prefer the cylinder be outside, too dangerous inside.

 

[Phoenix76]

Yep your greatest risk is having that gas bottle inside. Just not worth the risk. Cooking with gas inside is one thing, but the gas bottle must be outside. Just like my house. I have a gas stove running on LPG. Not a problem, coz the bottle is outside the house. Same with my hot water, bottle is outside. And I'm talking normal 8.5kg bottles. In all my caravaning and camper trailer adventures, I have always used gas, but the bottles have always been outside. And others have said on your post, you need to ensure you have ventilation so there is no build up of raw gas.

 

[Nightjar]

Rush, agree with Wolfy's comment, in the event of a fire you would be able to shut off the valve in safety if located outside.
A common leak with gas bottles is the "O" ring on the gas fitting. They perish and crack, and should be renewed regularly. At least carry spares.
A prospector had his ute and all camping gear burnt, the only thing he saved was his detector.
He had a 3way fridge running on gas on the back of his ute while camped up prospecting. The weather turned foul so he thought he would go for a drive and look for some new ground. He left the fridge running on gas. Driving along a two wheel track looking both sides for ground he didn't see a deep wash out in the track. When he hit the rut the gas fitting sheared and the resulting fire and explosion destroyed everything.

There is handy information here;

https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/energysafety/gas-safety-caravans-and-tents

 

[Rush]

Thank you all once again and also for the recent replies yesterday.

I ended up not taking any chances with the gas plate setup inside in my old van, as I described above in a previous post, and any dangers by having the LPG gas bottle inside the van as well.

So now when I have to cook I use a portable twin burner gas stove sitting on a table outside the van with it connected to a LPG gas bottle resting on the ground under the table.

Gee whiz Nightjar that sure is one explosive event that you have described, and thanks for that link also.

 

[Tathradj]

Wih sensors,
Place them in a point lower than if you are lying in a bed.
Having them up high will defeat the purpose because the
gas being heavier settles to the lowest point.
Away from the ceiling.

Thanks fellas for your replies so far.

The caravan has no rego and will be permanently at the campsite.

To explain the setup further the hose and regulator from the gas cylinder is connected straight to the inlet pipe on the gas plate with its twin taps and twin pipes that feed both of the round multi-holed gas burners.

Therefore would seem not to much that could go wrong except for a gas leak and if insufficient fresh air inside the van while cooking.

Also thinking about purchasing a carbon monoxide alarm similar in size to the fire alarms that screw to ceilings.
These type of alarms can have a LCD that can display a readout if carbon monoxide is present.

 

[GaryO]

Id go with the bottle outside , use a gas fuse and use something like a Loctite thread sealer rather than thread tape. And as you have done check the fittings for leaks with soapy water.

Gaz

 

[rotor]

Cooking inside is fine - Gas Bottles inside are not - all the older vans had them on A frame on the front. I wouldnt be putting a gas bottle inside a caravan if I was doing it!
Keep it simple - no sensors and just have vents at lowest point of your van - as close to the fridge as possible. didnt read your last - all good. The only prob you might have is windy and wet conditions!

 

[Tathradj]

Thread sealer is Loctite 567.

 

[Ridge Runner]

They don't use sealers of any kind, Normally the have fibre washers that crush upon tightening, and Testing with soapy water is not a good Idea either because the soap is corrosive and eats in to the brass,, I know a few Gas engineers and they said never to use it and if you do clean the area completely afterwards,

john.

 

[user 7268]

Joint sealing will depend on your fittings ? Tapered seats no sealant, threaded joints use a sealant and if Teflon tape used must be gas rated. As for bottle inside or outside provided correctly ventilated should be no issue and in the event it exploded the results will be the same I'm afraid ..................... no van. The biggest factor is to make sure there are no "pocket" areas down low around the area being used where a volume of gas could accumulate. Enjoy your steaks

 

[kurrajong]

Gas bottle must be outside. You can buy a metal box that will allow it to be fitted in the side of the van, but it will have vents to the outside.
Propane is heavier than air so it will find its way to the lowest point and accumulate while it waits for a source of ignition.

Carbon monoxide is a byproduct of combustion and is almost the same weight as air (28 versus 28.8) It disperses evenly throughout the room and is known as the silent killer. It is colourless, odourless and tasteless. You will not smell it but you may smell some of the other byproducts if the burner is not working efficiently.

Co alarms are a good idea and in my opinion are just as necessary as a smoke alarm. However like smoke alarms they are useless if the battery is dead.
Soapy water is the industry standard for leak detection in LPG/Propane bottle filling. I have never heard of the corrosion theory but I am still alive thus I am still learning.

I was a registered trainer for gas bottle filling in NZ for over twenty years and every year or two somebody would die from CO poisoning or fires.
Bottles must always be stored upright as that only allows gas to escape from a leak rather than liquid. Thread tape on the connection to the bottle (the large knurled knob thingy) is completely useless and even counter-productive. The seal is, as Nightjar said, an o-ring on the tapered piece. Incorrectly applied thread tape will mean the o-ring does not properly energise against the housing on the bottle and will leak.
Use Propane rated o-rings where possible and as he said keep a spare. Better still replace it when you do the batteries in the alarms but still keep a spare.

 

[condor22]

My van's LPG bottles are in the front boot (2 x 4.5kg), that is where the van manufacturer designed them to be, however....

The false floor of the area (driver's side front) has a couple of large holes that the base of the bottle locates into along with a curved back rest and strap to secure.
Under the bottles there is a vent to the outside which is designed for "in the event of a leak". There is another vent at the base of the other side of the boot also. As an aside, I also have the spare wheel and a 10 litre diesel tank in the front boot for the heater.

Re inside, the van door has a vent inbuilt to the lower part of the door, which is at the rear of the passenger side of the van. Up high near the bed on the driver side is another vent to outside, which has a small sign which states that the vent is specifically for venting gas fumes from cooking and is not to be blocked.

This allows for the flow through of air when cooking, which is also supplemented by a range hood above the stove. The Range Hood is a user preference item which I use dependent upon what I'm cooking.

It is both legal and safe to have LPG bottles inside the front boot and to cook inside a van, providing there is adequate ventilation for a possible LPG leak and the fumes from burnt LPG.

The biggest problem with caravan LPG is that many people "set and forget" to an extent, me included. We get complacent, "if it aint broke don't fix it" however just as LPG bottles need testing every 10 years, the connections and appliances in a van should be inspected regularly by the user and periodically by a licensed gas fitter. After all, we bounce this stuff down the blacktop and on dirt, things move and shake and sometimes 'give'.