Clay n copper

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Joined
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Location
Katazone, VIC
*Disclaimer Warning*
( In no way is the Prospecting Australia forum, or myself, reliable or held responsible for any damage if you attempt to copy any of the shown experiments or subject of text and images shown or disgussed in this topic. I do not encourage anyone to try or attempt anything of such subjects, safety precautions are not listed, nor are the chemicals involved. You have been warned. )

With the storm coming over head fast I thought I'd fit in some quick fun for the day and share it!

It all began from a shallow hole search for clay in the back garden, took a long time, but eventually after a couple of pokes holes I found a nice ball of a semi clean brown clay which stuck to itself and easily rolled and pressed into shape. I figured I'd give the old clay pioe a go, with a small amount of clay knowledge in the memory bank I set to finger shaping out the bowl, and rolled up a neck on the table. Using a bit if coat hanger wire, I was able to carefully pierce the stem giving it a neat hole. Quickly I roughed uo the sectiins to be joined and with a hok of spit I squished them together the best I could. Generally a potter would make sure the clay was free of dirt, rock and also use a 'slick' glue ..but whis got the time for those details :p

Pretty happy with the desgn ( after a couple of attempts ) I made a makeshift rocket stove kiln from spare bricks, ( a dug hole would have been better ), burning a good load of fuel to leave a nice glowing bed of heat at its base. Even though I knew the clay was dreadfully wet, and a crack had already formed on its stem by air drying, I carefully placed it upon the embers when *bang crackple pop* the pipe exploded into a million pieces like a liquid nitrogen treated rose! Oh well.. I left it in to see hiw well any if it may survive and to see the results of the clay after firing.

As this was a fail and a nice warm fire / furnace was nice n warming as the clouds crept in, I smashed up some bits of Malachite, carefully sprinkled it onto the embers before re-fueling it with some wood and a few chunks of fresh charcoal crunched up over it to help the malachite -> copper conversion. Being an open furnace I knew very little would produce from it but had a go anyway. Sealing uo the brick oven inlet and chimney as best as I could for the reaction to take place.

After around an hour ( and not enough heat in the flame ), the doomed rains had started dribbling, eventually putting out the fire. After letting it cool a while, I kicked it all down ( carefully ), and using a scoop; I shovelled the ash remains into a pan to see what we had. Obviously, one hell of a mess! I could easily recover what remains of the pipe were left in the pile, they didn't look real happy at all, but the copper had deposited a lovely coating / sheen to the bits. Then looking into what else I had, I could see some malachite still which didn't crush correctly, and a few copper sparkles and small copper 'nuggets', some with a very famous 'reef' shape, wire like and random. A lot of unreacted malachite or half reacted ore was in the remains too. Rather exciting I say!

So for the final test to make sure I had made copper ( no doubt by its color anyway ), I dissolved it in some acid, using all safety precaution such as nitrile gloves, bi carb neutralising water nearby for spills etc, which you can cleary see turns a green indication once its done its work. What's left in the bottom is probably bits of clay. Thank you for having a read if another experimental day of mine! :)

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*Disclaimer Warning*
( In no way is the Prospecting Australia forum, or myself, reliable or held responsible for any damage if you attempt to copy any of the shown experiments or subject of text and images shown or disgussed in this topic. I do not encourage anyone to try or attempt anything of such subjects, safety precautions are not listed, nor are the chemicals involved. You have been warned. )
 
Great experiment, AR. Maybe someone with more knowledge of working clay than me could advise! As for anything, I'd bet there is a bit of info and some clay pipe makers out there in the interwebs.
 
DrDuck said:
Great experiment, AR. Maybe someone with more knowledge of working clay than me could advise! As for anything, I'd bet there is a bit of info and some clay pipe makers out there in the interwebs.
The fail of the clay was due to my impatience and lazyness :lol: Could have cleaned the clay and let it dry 100% rather than sticking it in the fire with 100% moisture haha just some fun!
 
tally ho said:
Yes, and they break very easily as well! Who uses plastic for a thread..honestly :rolleyes: I was using this for a few weeks until it fell apart mate :)

* I certainly do not approve of smoking tobacco - I wish it was banned before I was born, there was intention to make a pipe ..it just formed as i moulded the clay so i went with it being a miners tradition back then * I love any efforts of craftmanship..especially old timer odds n ends.

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G,Day Atom ,
Funny how you and I travel similar paths at similar times, My old Grandfather was a pipe smoker all of his adult life. His favourite Pipe looked very like the one in the picture. He had quite a few over the yrs before he passed on in the late 70s. A couple of months ago I was visiting my Aunty, (She lives in my Pops old house now) and she showed me an old pipe she had found whilst gardening behind the tool shed. It appeared to be made out of some sort of gumnut or wooden tree knot was very well preserved, no doubt by the tar and nicotine in the tabacco.
After the 2003 fires up here I spent a bit of time detecting around some old hut sights and whilst I was digging a metallic target in what I latter identified as an old fireplace I had the good fortune to unearth an old clay pipe that I believe was used for smoking opium, as the bowl was very small and had no trace of tar in it. I still have it in the shed so I should post a pic of it.
On Copper smelting, Last weekend I tried melting copper scrap in a homemade crucible as I wanted to see if i could raise enough heat in my open forge to smelt gold concentrates, I did manage to melt the copper scrap but my homerolled crucible failed and I ended up with a lot of glazed crucible chips & a lump of copper recovered from the bottom of forge when it cooled. It also used a lot of charcoal fuel to get the crucible to a white heat (about 1100 c )
 
jethro said:
G,Day Atom ,
Funny how you and I travel similar paths at similar times, My old Grandfather was a pipe smoker all of his adult life. His favourite Pipe looked very like the one in the picture. He had quite a few over the yrs before he passed on in the late 70s. A couple of months ago I was visiting my Aunty, (She lives in my Pops old house now) and she showed me an old pipe she had found whilst gardening behind the tool shed. It appeared to be made out of some sort of gumnut or wooden tree knot was very well preserved, no doubt by the tar and nicotine in the tabacco.
After the 2003 fires up here I spent a bit of time detecting around some old hut sights and whilst I was digging a metallic target in what I latter identified as an old fireplace I had the good fortune to unearth an old clay pipe that I believe was used for smoking opium, as the bowl was very small and had no trace of tar in it. I still have it in the shed so I should post a pic of it.
On Copper smelting, Last weekend I tried melting copper scrap in a homemade crucible as I wanted to see if i could raise enough heat in my open forge to smelt gold concentrates, I did manage to melt the copper scrap but my homerolled crucible failed and I ended up with a lot of glazed crucible chips & a lump of copper recovered from the bottom of forge when it cooled. It also used a lot of charcoal fuel to get the crucible to a white heat (about 1100 c )
Haha very coincidental Jethro! Would love to see the wooden one your aunty found,and the old clay pipe, ( a photo should certainly reveal its type and age ), the wooden ones are much harder imo to hand craft, interesting that it had lasted so long as well and not rotted away through time :eek:

As for smelting copper, we needed to reach up to about 1300-1500 ( electric furnace PID controller and kanthal wire element ), until the green and yellow smoke witches broth began to boil, but this may have been to some brass we could have had in the mix. For high temp applications like copper, iron and gold etc, I highly reccomend only using a carbon graphite crucible but they can be on the expensive side, but I will note there are some youtube vids giving lengthy detail about making a graphite crucible at home. The same bloke makes a small power jaw crusher on his channel. If you don't know about crubile care and keeping it strong for duribility and life expectancy, some info could help there such as pre tempering for several days before first using it to release moisture, heating the metals before putting them into the crucible, and how to slowly and properly cool a crucible to prevent cracking or damage. Usually it's a play of needing a lot of time, or preparation to make sure objects won't get thermal shock.

Making copper from Malachite is more about a reaction with the gases like carbon monoxide and not an extreme temp is needed to create small amounts. Hope some of this is useful and feel free to pm me

P.s - the previous tests ( acid n cons / quartz ) didn't really do much. So far it should have eaten anything containing iron from the acids, but there still seems to be a lot of black in the bottom left. Ill have another look at them soon to see if its magnetite or tin at least for a start, but as for those basic acids..it did nothing useful for anyone :lol:
 
Hey AR,
Best I can do with a pic of the old clay pipe , melted copper , whats left of the crucible, and some dewatered borax. Oh and some ore that was left sitting on the anvil I took the pics on using the camera in my laptop as I cant find my other camera ATM
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Just from the height of the bowl on the pipe, it means that its one of an early era as they got shorter later on. It probably has a much larger hole as well than the later made too. I've only found a couple, its amazing even these sections last soo much. The Thames in England has an amble supply of them 'mudlarking' in the designated areas..I'd love to go one day.

The copper to me looks like it needed more heat, got a photo of your furnace? Can pm if you prefer. What was your crucible made of, and is that a drop hammer anvil? 8)
 
Na mate thats its full height as the top is unbroken except were I glanced it with the pick digging said target. I thought it might be an opium pipe as the area I found it in was worked by the chinese and others on the same day out found chinese coins & the clips from the top of opium tins & ther were a lot of these clips.
The nvil"is not actually an anvil but a some sort of large cast iron part maybe a rotary valve from a boiler fire box from a butter factory or a railway cart end bumper.
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And the forge,
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Ahh I see! Forge should be kept for forging, a furnace however is best for smelting. If you have a bin / walls to keep more heat in the drum forge it may help, but I'm not sure if the temo will ever exceed big enough area to actually smelt metal. Most units to get high temp I use, have a lid to force the flames back down again and retaining heat. I think that you will find that the excess carbon of the coke / coal even charcoal can be making it difficult to smelt with impurities but may simply just need more heat that the forge may not reach. If you eant a quick alternative for a current project I suggestusing fire brivks fron a pizza oven or kiln repairer. They will hold the heat very well and easily shaped

Rippa hunk of iron that haha, mabey even something to do with ships? Massive. I love the safety moccasins too lol
 
Yeah I think some sort of low domed roof over the top of the forge would do the trick to keep the heat in. I use charcoal that I save from our slow combustion wood heater as a fuel for the forge. I bought a 18volt cordless leaf blower to add air to the forge as well as the hand crank fan. I can also use the cordless blower to ventilate mine workings.
The ''Anvil'' is out of an old butter factory that had a rail siding so it could be to do with the rail siding or a rotary valve for the solid fuel boiler.
 

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