4x4 downhill creep terrible what are my options

[casper]

.....you need to back to basics for the answer and it is a technique called "driving through the brakes" master the technique and you'll have total control of the machine

I always thought that technique was for automatics not manuals & not really getting back to basics but one that requires practice + mastering as you say. Definitely not something to start using on a steep descent straight up? Can also cause brake overheating & auto transmission overheating on long descents?
Thought it's now mostly obsolete in modern autos also as many are improved & also have descent control? Never owned an auto 4wd?
I've always had manuals & always been taught to not use the brakes. Use the engine, 1st gear & low range. On very slippery descents use diff lock if fitted, drop tyre pressures for more traction but never drive through the brakes?
If you've got a method for 4wd manuals I'd like to hear it as an alternative or option.
I've got a Triton too but never had too much troubles downhill. In saying that I wouldn't go down something that I couldn't back out of if it got too hairy either. I'm not into rock crawling.

I agree ....

Can also cause brake overheating & auto transmission overheating on long descents? .... in my experience no! and in an auto-trans vehicle it is the same as in a manual-trans ie 1st gear & low range, which in my vehicle locks the torque converter and you can drive the vehicle as you would a manual - just gotta remember to knock the shift lever into N before you come to a halt - or in a manual disengage the clutch - otherwise you'll stall the engine

Hill descent control has it's place but the ABS system does get real solid workout on l o n g steep descents. Once or twice I've had the system complain (overheat) and throw an error code and then have had a "runaway" situation to deal with - and that sure tightens the sphincter muscle :8

However, none of this helps the OP with his question but a Proficiency (beginner) Driver 4WD driver training course will and it is a ton of fun too ......

 

[EVIE/BEE]

Sounds like the clutch is slipping to me... but i'm just a simpleton.

 

[mudgee hunter]

What type of front diff center is fitted to yours Brendo?
Open, LSD, Locka?
Manual hubs?
Front open diffs, fitted with manual hubs can have an Auto locka fitted cheaply, compared to an electric or air type locka.
Surf YouTube for Spartan look a, Aussie locka, there a couple out there now.
One bonus of them is they also allow for tight cornering when going slow.
Even on a sealed surface.

 

[Occasional_panner]

Depends on what you call steep, Herne spur is a prolonged steep drop, rangers and tritons will need to use some brake on that track.
L cruisers with their 4.5v8 provide enough back compression (along with their gearing) to not need brakes at all, in fact you'll need to use the accelerator.

It pretty much comes down to ute based 4 wheelers are a compromise, they do lots of thing pretty good, but none really well.

 

[mudgee hunter]

There are 4x4s out there that have open centers front and back! ( generally older) .
Some just have LSD in the rear.
Some 4x4s offer a selection, that allows it driven on a sealed road like an all wheel drive, the front and rear drive shafts are NOT fully locked up in sync.
The front drive shaft can spin at a different ratio, Allowing for cornering ( where they can become out of sync)
A fully locked position selected for the center diff , will keep both drive shafts turning at exactly the same ratio, With out any give.
Thus making it it very difficult to do U-turn on a sealed road say.
Then you may have the option of a low range. Usually about a 50% ratio reduction.
Open front diffs, even when fitted hub locks... are pretty hopeless.
One wheel will still free spin when in mud or elevated off the ground.
And to my knowledge descending no matter what range you are in, they are basically free spin on one side...
This also shows the reason for after market diff locks mostly being fitted to the front.
Some 4x4s have the option of a diff center swap. ( fitting a rear LSD center, to the front) .
But these still mostly rely on clutch packs.
For all the mucking around to do this , fitting a lauto unchbox locker is the go if you have manual hub locks.
Don't fit these to the front if you do not have un/lockable hubs but.

 

[aussiefarmer]

If the revs go up as it gets away well then it's engine related and it's either boost the compression or fit a exhaust brake.

If the revs stay low but you gain speed then it's loss of traction, alloy tray utes are only half as good as steel tray utes in the bush.

Bit like fitting a solid bull bar and winch , this guarantees you will need to engage 4x4 every time your off road.

We have two single cab tritons they are both 2013 models from memory give or take a year and we often go into foot on the dash country without to much issues, when they do get away it's a 4 wheel slide and slipping her back into high 4x4 is the only way to get back into control.

I also have a 2013 sr5 V6 auto daul cab and I can tell you a modern auto is a real pleasure in the bush, traction control turns off as soon as you go into low range and the auto will hold in the gear selected. The auto is excellent at holding on hills and makes gentle movements very simple and backing off on climbs there's no roll back.

 

[just starting]

An FJ55 and 60 series use 4.11 diffs and are very slow crawlers in 4WD .Very controlled on steep declines .

 

[Ded Driver]

A technique I use when descending steep hills, is to turn the air-con on (petrol engine).
Its not huge, but does add a small amount of engine braking. Probably not so much effect with a diesel.
.
haven't tried throwing a boat anchor out yet, as I cant fit a Jeep on my roofrack for this purpose layful:

 

[grubstake]

A technique I use when descending steep hills, is to turn the air-con on (petrol engine).
Its not huge, but does add a small amount of engine braking. Probably not so much effect with a diesel.
.
haven't tried throwing a boat anchor out yet, as I cant fit a Jeep on my roofrack for this purpose layful:

You just had to go there, didn't you?! :lol:

 

[just starting]

Are jeeps as bad as they are made out to be ? Here is a video of one being dismantled and reassembled in 4 minutes.

[video=480,360]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBtYXFXa5Ig[/video]

There are other videos one of a jeep being dismantled in a minute , but not reassembled.

 

[casper]

Depends on what you call steep, Herne spur is a prolonged steep drop, rangers and tritons will need to use some brake on that track.
L cruisers with their 4.5v8 provide enough back compression (along with their gearing) to not need brakes at all, in fact you'll need to use the accelerator.

It pretty much comes down to ute based 4 wheelers are a compromise, they do lots of thing pretty good, but none really well.

.... it descends 600metres in only 3.5kms. In my vehicle I can do most of it with engine braking alone in LOW 1st with centre diff lock engaged and only resorting to driving thru the brakes when dropping down over the steps. Going up is much more fun

 

[Mr Magoo]

Hi All,

I have a 4x4, 2014 manual Mitsubishi Triton. Overall a good car, with an exception. When I am in low range, in 1st gear going down steep gradients the car wants to run away from me and I have to use the brake. In other 4x4's I have driven (even really old ones), 1st gear in low range is great, I don't have to use the brakes, it just creeps down the hill, even with a heavy trailer in tow.

So far I have been lucky, it hasn't been super wet or snowy and I have gotten away with it. Even in victoria high country.

Talking to another Mitsubishi owner, this is a thing for that model.

My question is, do I have any options? Can I get the gearing replaced/changed etc? Is there a magical thing I can add to the car etc? I don't particularly want to get rid of the car, it has been good.

If you ideas on costs or who (is it a mechanic, 4x4 shop etc) I should talk to it would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Brendo

Why don;t you want to use your brakes? I do in steep country and I don't have a Triton.

 

[grubstake]

Hi All,

I have a 4x4, 2014 manual Mitsubishi Triton. Overall a good car, with an exception. When I am in low range, in 1st gear going down steep gradients the car wants to run away from me and I have to use the brake. In other 4x4's I have driven (even really old ones), 1st gear in low range is great, I don't have to use the brakes, it just creeps down the hill, even with a heavy trailer in tow.

So far I have been lucky, it hasn't been super wet or snowy and I have gotten away with it. Even in victoria high country.

Talking to another Mitsubishi owner, this is a thing for that model.

My question is, do I have any options? Can I get the gearing replaced/changed etc? Is there a magical thing I can add to the car etc? I don't particularly want to get rid of the car, it has been good.

If you ideas on costs or who (is it a mechanic, 4x4 shop etc) I should talk to it would be much appreciated.

Thanks
Brendo

Why don;t you want to use your brakes? I do in steep country and I don't have a Triton.

Because as your brakes heat up they become less and less effective and may even become useless, leaving you with no way of maintaining control, as in the above post by Just Starting:
https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=565602#p565602

 

[just starting]

Couldn`t agree more. I used the brakes as a last resort when i started gaining momentum. I was trying to smash the ute into the side of the hill or a tree to stop it without rolling it because there was a big embankment on my left . My advice is don`t challenge a steep hill. I learned my lesson .

 

[casper]

Victorian High Country track classification..

https://www.4wdvictoria.org.au/iconic4wd/index.php/safety-information/track-classification

 

[brendomac]

Thanks everyone for their help.

Just to let you know, I am by no means a good 4wd driver. I spent about 10 days in Victorian high country and numerous trips in other areas. I try not to use my brakes going down the steep inclines so I don't lock up or burn through my brakes (as mentioned by others). Going uphill is fine. I have had other people in the car with me who are much more experienced and have said that it shouldn't be running away on me like it is. I have had weight in the rear of the ute.

I can say that the revs increase as it speeds up going downhill, so I don't think the tyres are slipping.

The hubs are not manually locked, I use the shifter inside the cab.

My knowledge about the intricacies of 4wd diff locks/gearing etc is pretty poor so all your advice is awesome. I have tried hitting a few of the 4wd forums, but thought I'd try my local gold PA members first with the question.

I like the sound of a couple of suggestions, like exhaust brakes or adding kits (and being a better driver by going to some training). I just wasn't sure what was out there or what the best approach.

Sounds like it is time for me to investigate some of your suggestions. If I can some sort of kit, that doesn't affect my on-road performance then that would be perfect.

thanks again

 

[user 4386]

.....you need to back to basics for the answer and it is a technique called "driving through the brakes" master the technique and you'll have total control of the machine

I always thought that technique was for automatics not manuals & not really getting back to basics but one that requires practice + mastering as you say. Definitely not something to start using on a steep descent straight up? Can also cause brake overheating & auto transmission overheating on long descents?
Thought it's now mostly obsolete in modern autos also as many are improved & also have descent control? Never owned an auto 4wd?
I've always had manuals & always been taught to not use the brakes. Use the engine, 1st gear & low range. On very slippery descents use diff lock if fitted, drop tyre pressures for more traction but never drive through the brakes?
If you've got a method for 4wd manuals I'd like to hear it as an alternative or option.
I've got a Triton too but never had too much troubles downhill. In saying that I wouldn't go down something that I couldn't back out of if it got too hairy either. I'm not into rock crawling.

Much easier in automatics, but you can train yourself to "drive through the brakes" in a manual - it takes a bit longer to master but becomes an automatic response with time. It is a standard technique, suggest a beginners 4x4 course at a club (you will learn more than just that as well). It gives total descent control, and you do not touch your brakes (it consists of keeping brakes constant from the beginning as you go over the edge, and using accelerator only to control descent - you start at the top with the brakes just holding, and use the accelerator to proceed downhill, when you feel it is too fast you simply ease up on the accelerator - the brakes are kept constant all the time). Wheels cannot lock. An essential skill in the mountains. You don't want to lock anything, unless you want to slide - this technique keeps the wheels going around, even if ever so slowly.

 

[Solid Luck]

I love driving through the brakes with tailgaters. No brake lights come on. I've had quite a few people yelling at me to get my brake lights fixed.

 

[brendomac]

Thanks Goldie,

I think training is definitely on the cards. I enquired about crawler gears and it seems there is no concrete answer for my Triton without pulling it apart, finding out whats needed, then ordering. A potentially expensive process.

The bloke at the 4wd shop was great and he pretty much suggested what you are saying. I will look into "driving through the brakes" too. I haven't heard of that term before and will hopefully be able to learn through some training.

 

[LONEWOLF]

Rock crawler gears shouldn't be an issue to track down as plenty of Pajero's also have the same issue and that's what they use in them......

LW...