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#376

vonG
Member
Joined: 19 January 2017
Posts: 125
Member
29 January 2019 05:42 am

Hi Christian.

Do you have the quill and dopsticks already finished for the machine? If so, have you measured the run out on them when attached together in the faceting head?
What kind of material are you using for the dopsticks?

Reason for asking is that I red some articles about run out. It made me think of the precision needed to get meet points and polishing to look good in faceting, atleast if you want competition grade gems and not just commercial.
When faceting by hand you can easily cheat or change angles if you see that it is needed. I guess you can do that too in your machine, but think you want that to be automatic or have the precision so good that it will not need any fixing.

#377

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
29 January 2019 09:04 am

Hello Thomas,

I dont have dopsticks yet, i probebly draw some for test and let them made. (In the first cases) I also dont know what the total run out is at this point, but what i have measured (this was the last time i checked) was around the 8/1000th of a mm. This will now be bigger while i have changed some things and didnt measured it again. But there are manny things that needs to be reset and calibrated again. I think it will cost me two full weeks to do that so. Thus it will be one of the last things i will do, if everything is working. Also because this isnt easy. But...

There is a feature i want to add into the machine and that is software calibration. Because i can use a 3d laserscanner i could measure everything and put all the measurements into a database so that i could use software corection in all axis. But im not there yet.

The thing is im doing my best on all i can think of, and the need i have at the moment is getting the machine work as it should. With errors or not, it has to run first. Then i can take the time for changes etc. Because it isnt a simple project. Mayby some think it is, so let them do the same :- ) they will get back on it for shure.

There is also some other things im thinking of after i have the axis working. Wich i should test this week... but i have catched a cold... But if im correct and programmed my mcu correct it will now home and positioning will also work. That is for next week.

I was thinking about another cutting head with an variable preasure head. So that i can change the preasure that wil be pressed onto the stone onto the cutting lap can be variable, and can set with some variables. Uhm. Ya, uh 10.000 euro's... ($ 15,860.00 AUD) For a cutting head! But i can build it, im for shure! But i think that wil be better than what i now have. But first the standard machine must be completed first. Its going to be more a combination of motor/pneumatic head. But with high precision.

Uhm back to your question:

When i get the multi axis control done as i want it to get then the run out can be set to 1/1000th of a mm. (unmeasureble small) When run in normal mode i think i can get it to about 1/100th of a mm. In inches will that be:

1/100th of a mm: 0.0003937007874 inch
1/1000th of a mm: 0.00003937007874 inch

When i get the axis control done i could correct the head axis with manipulation steps of 0.0045 degrees.

But these are all theoretical measurements. I realy dont know what the run out will be. It will be small. But how small i dont know. So it is still a gues :- ) I think the next machine (a small one) will be more precise then the one im building now. lol sorry said to much lol Yes there are plans to build also a small one ONLY for cutting gems.

As where im now in the software:

if (__x[9][x_i] == 3) {
__x[9][x_i] = 0; // Turn Off Homing
__x[5][x_i] = 1; // Enable Axis
__x[7][x_i] = 0; // Reset Counter
}

Yes, i can test next week Homing and Positioning!

All with all, it will be a big challenge to get it all work, polishing will be something that isnt easily solved, but with the next cutting head in mind this will be less than a problem and even possible to polishing onto soft materials, like wood, plastics etc.

For me? It is still a quest, and im lerning! And there is always room for improvement. And forgive me if the first stones arent that nice :- ) hahahaha But i know there are more roads to rome!

But i wont give up! There are some things i can try and i should try!

Oh and simple cheating with a automatic machine isnt simple. So i need to come with some solutions that can handle those 'cheats' as with a the new head it wil be much more easier to polish. But is expensive, but i already have the main parts at home :- ) So............


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

#378

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
29 January 2019 09:27 am

Uhm,

By the way, its still a hobby smile but i think i could get a job out of it tongue lol

Yours,

Christian


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

#379

vonG
Member
Joined: 19 January 2017
Posts: 125
Member
30 January 2019 03:43 am

It was not my meaning to overwhelm you with my questions. I was only curious about your thoughts on run out in the machine.

I see the weak link in the material and I think the dops will bend some if using the wrong material. I wonder how good run out and rigidity that is needed to get perfect meetpoints and polish. I guess the weakest link can f@#k all things up.

This is why I’m really impressed that you only use expensive precision material when building the machine.

Further more the pressure will be on all angles of that dop too and forced from the axes, not like faceting manually when the force is on the stone using your fingers.
Will the dop be in the same spot all the time even if it is taken out from the quill and then back again. How much can it differ when the gem is transferred from the crown to the pavilion. Sorry for rambling my thoughts. big_smile

I’m sure you will figure out the way to solve all this and I know this is a bit further down on your list of things to do and think about right now.

As you wrote before - this is not an easy project.
I personally just think it needs somebody crazy enough to do it. lol

#380

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
30 January 2019 04:59 am

vonG wrote:

I personally just think it needs somebody crazy enough to do it. lol

Hehehe, you met one angel

Ya, i know al those points, i also overthought those. But the coolest thing is, when the machine is working (hopefully soon) i can change things tongue The fun side is that i can change everything easily. But it needs to run first... Like i said, with error or no errors big_smile

There are some questions with some of the features but its so cool to be the first hobbyist to get a full automatic machine.

Im saying this: A conventional machine you can buy on the market is fun but not for my goal big_smile All the materials that are used on those machines are all weak. I also have some flaws in it but when you take a commercial machine and you want to rebuild it i think i would change everything on it big_smile as example the base plate. A thin metal sheet with a wooden box... Duh... sorry big_smile 0.0003" run out? only at the quell i think, and the rest?!


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

#381

vonG
Member
Joined: 19 January 2017
Posts: 125
Member
30 January 2019 08:36 am

I get what you mean, the regidity of manual machines isn’t that good. With a little force you can move the quill and dop out of angle and the base is as you say thin metal with a wooden base.

But here is where a good faceter comes in to play, you get to know the machine flaws after some time and learn to work around them.
I guess it all comes down to how many hours you want to spend in front of the machine to get those extremely good polishes and meetpoints.
I think when working for money time is of essence. big_smile

It’s only hobby faceters that do it for the pride and craftsmanship behind every cut stone. You will never get rightly paid for spending a week or two on a single stone just to get it perfect. (Sorry if I hurt anybody’s feelings)

Hopefully you have found the way around that and can get a precision cut stone from rough to gem within 30 minutes or so on your machine.

#382

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
30 January 2019 09:10 am

Yah. I dont know... its just a tryout as i call it. I dont even know if i earn anything out of it. But what other choice do i have? Dont have anything to do otherwise and this may be a way, and im going to take it with both hands. Mayby the whole thing is a flop and doomed to fail. That is possible. The other side is, im learning a lot and made a simple start to improve faceting on the automatic way. (No, i dont want to hurt others also!) Lets make some things straigth... Its a dieing hobby here in the Netherlands and also also in Europe. Ok mayby not in other countries but here it is. 30 years ago it was a good hobby here but now, there are some who has this hobby of cutting stones but i think i can almost count those on one hand. So my story on the other hand is, if i want a hand in this dying hobby (here) build something what can be used in a simple maner and in a perfect way that can be used in the comercial brange (not for the mid class but for the high class) and get a litle grain from them who can affort to pay. So build a machine, have some idears what you can do with it and think about new inovations that can get some feet on the ground. Uhm, and what do i have to loose?! Totaly nothing. Some money but i mayby have also something to win. Uh or something like that. For example, for me it is possible to make rounded facets also in small scale or do complete other things with the machine. So why not? big_smile Oh and sorry to tell folks of facetron, my quell run-out is 1/1000th of a mm, thats 10 times smaller... Its a hobby and be honest, what isnt cooler than to make from your hobby your work!? But for some that are worried, i wont make machines for the mass! If only a cutting head already costs 10.000 euro's ONLY ON PARTS what should a complete machine costs?! Dont worry folks big_smile No need to! I just trying to take a litle grain big_smile To feed my wife and daughter big_smile

Last edited by Nena (30 January 2019 09:12 am)


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

1 user likes this post: StoneTheCrows

#383

StoneTheCrows
Member
From: Central Coast, NSW
Joined: 21 February 2018
Posts: 598
Member
30 January 2019 02:38 pm

Any more pics Nena?

#384

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
31 January 2019 01:40 am

First time moving the Y1 Axis. It was just a test if my new software was working with the hardware. It sounded like a air alarm but it is working as expected! Soon i will test the Homing function. First i need to correct some features.

Soon More!

Last edited by Nena (31 January 2019 01:40 am)


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

2 users like this post: StoneTheCrows, roddosnow

#385

vonG
Member
Joined: 19 January 2017
Posts: 125
Member
31 January 2019 03:44 am

Always fun to see your video updates. big_smile

Are you working on this every day or do you have some other side project going at the same time? I know you bought, cleaned/repaired and resold stuff before.

#386

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
31 January 2019 03:55 am

Hehehe, uhm not every day big_smile

Im still buying/selling and repairing cnc things. But all in the sense of this machine. Next to it am i home husband tongue Ya im almost thinking every day about it since i started thinking about it tongue lol.

Couldnt set homing today in action, while i didnt set the direction of the motor correct but mayby i can do this tomorrow otherwise friday.


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

#387

vonG
Member
Joined: 19 January 2017
Posts: 125
Member
31 January 2019 04:01 am

It’s a big project and will take some time to complete.

Looking forward to your next video.

On a side note, about conventional machines. What would you change in the regular machines? Do you have any drawings of the perfect conventional machine according to you?

#388

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
31 January 2019 05:08 am

Pff i would almost redesign the complete machine but the price would be to high for the most people. This would make the machine too expensive. No i dont have drawings. What does the current machine cost? Almost 3500 usd? I think when i should make a conventional machine it would cost about 3000 usd. But with precise materials such as linear block guides and more robust, heavier etc. Dont know what the weight is of a facetron? But i think if i would build one it will have a weight of about 50 - 60 kg. (120lb)


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

#389

vonG
Member
Joined: 19 January 2017
Posts: 125
Member
31 January 2019 06:39 am

An Ultratec cost 5k. So 3k sounds cheap for the ultimate conventional machine, at least in my mind.

Rigidity, precision and repetability. The 3 magic ingredieces that are needed. At the same time it should be easy to use.

Don’t like the thought of being able to bend the machine out of angle with the force of hand. It should be firm when set at a specific angle.
The weight is of no problem, it should not be moved around anyway.

So many things that can be done when thinking about it. big_smile

#390

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
31 January 2019 07:57 am

Your totaly right!

Now that i know the motors will run as i want, i want to do the homing verry soon now big_smile lol so tomorrow ill test big_smile Used 2% of the programming memory right now so there is room for other stepper controls on the teensy. First thing now is getting the basics right now and also implant a multi axis control. (only executeble) Uhm a sort of a smal piece of programming on the mcu only to execute, no calculations. I want to control all the 7 axis on the machine with 1 byte. (8 bits, 7 for the motors, 1 for extra information like direction (extra byte) etc...).

I think the most work will be in the programming.

But when the homing is working ill give a update smile and, with a new video big_smile


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

#391

StoneTheCrows
Member
From: Central Coast, NSW
Joined: 21 February 2018
Posts: 598
Member
31 January 2019 08:06 am

Sounds like an Air raid Siren big_smile

#392

vonG
Member
Joined: 19 January 2017
Posts: 125
Member
31 January 2019 08:07 am

You’re getting there Christian.

You know your programming and I think you will solve whatever problems you will stumble upon.

Just take your time and don’t let me or anybody else put you down or force you to hurry.

2 users like this post: StoneTheCrows, Nena

#393

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
31 January 2019 08:26 am

I cant rush it and i dont want to rush it. Oh, there is much to learn. But theres so much to program and want to get a stable platform where i can run all the functions on. The server is already a stable platform, 8 day's without any failure big_smile But the program is already getting complicated so i cant rush that anymore tongue But the server is almost done and mayby i need to do some things again and change some of the functions but the main program is stable for now!

The Air Raid Sirene sound is comming due the frequency of the motors 2e6 for starting the motor to 30 rpm gives that sound smile ill change that to a smaller interval and mayby a bit higher rpm and you'll see its sound is different big_smile


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

2 users like this post: roddosnow, StoneTheCrows

#394

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
01 February 2019 09:49 pm

Running homing on the Teensy 3.6 without any problems. Proximity test works perfect. Did the test this time
with an start and stop at 500.000 Microseconds to a ful 50 RPM.

Soon More!


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

1 user likes this post: Gilly47

#395

roddosnow
Member
Joined: 19 March 2014
Posts: 67
Member
22 March 2019 11:59 am

Been a while since an update,

how is your progress going Christian?

#396

Sodabowski
Member
From: Southern France
Joined: 24 March 2014
Posts: 188
Member
03 August 2019 12:29 am

Wow dude you've come a long way since I last checked up on your faceting tank project. Mine is at a halt right now since I've been working my a$$ out on that faceting software thing, which also comes with a lot of challenges once you want to break new ground.


Thomas


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