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#51

Jemba
Member
Joined: 29 August 2016
Posts: 214
Member
09 August 2017 05:22 pm

The first part of your post i totally agree with but the second part, you may find NAPFA has already stated that to the powers to be?? And it is a bit more than feeling good about joining NAPFA it gives them a stronger voice. thumbsup

Last edited by Jemba (09 August 2017 05:44 pm)


When Injustice Becomes Law Resistance Becomes Duty.

3 users like this post: 7.62marksman, Dolphin, Billy

#52

Tathradj
Moderator
From: Tathra, NSW
Joined: 17 February 2014
Posts: 8,704
Moderator
09 August 2017 09:24 pm

A lot of good points there Cobber.
We who do the right thing already do that. big_smile big_smile
True, I like many have made a mistake from time to time but
I can tell you now, It gets fixed in one hell of a hurry plus
I suffer a lot of embarrassment.
Public Education is a large factor that we all should engage
in a friendly way.
Not start a civil riot because some poor person has no idea.
Marvelous what can be achieved with a friendly grin and good
solid advise.

Way2go wrote:

Hi All,

I think many of you are jumping the gun, so to speak.

I am all for the small guy and the prospecting clubs; however, I have seen too many videos on YouTube showing prospectors (here in NSW) using high bankers and not respecting the environment, digging large hole and not remediating the area. If it was not for these people I believe we would stand a better chance of keeping them in service.

If joining NAPFA makes you feel good, then join. Groups like this with passionate members can help organise gatherings, submissions to the relevant authority and in some cases make deals with local land owners to allow prospecting. They also do a good job keeping us novices informed of legislation changes etc.

If you have a problem or are presented a problem, instead of complaining about the problem, identify a couple of positive solutions or actions to these problems and propose them. This will make prospectors look responsible and give the authorities/government some possible solutions to the existing problem.

An Example 1 would be:

Issue - High Bankers are causing environmental damage due to the silt coming from the washing action.

Solution 1 - Use a reticulation system and not discharge the was into the creek, stream, river or other water course.
Solution 2 - have all water used in a high banker pass through an approved silt filter / filter system before being released into the creek, stream, river or water course.

I know this message will upset a few. More than likely those of you who have been doing the wrong thing will be the ones who disagree with my comments.

food for thought.


A couple of HiBankers inc. accessories, , QED, 4500, SDC2300, Gt1600,
Aldi, A Prado 4x4, A'Van Cruiseliner and a heck of a lot of determination.
Most importantly, A lot of Good Honest Friends. Maybe one day Lucky.

#53

Gilly47
Member
From: Currently on Tour, QLD
Joined: 18 January 2015
Posts: 691
Member
09 August 2017 10:10 pm

We INVESTED in a Highbanker because my wife has serious difficulties with panning and sieving, our plan was to set up the highbanker and i do the digging and wife looks after the highbanker.

We are in our seventies and were going to spend a few years on the fossicking trails, now without this aid wife will not be able to participate at the levels she anticipated when we sold our Home and are getting set up with caravan and tow vehicle.

Looks like we made a BIG mistake, we had researched the fossicking hobby for a number of years and now there is only one of us that can participate.

On another note we are also restricted from using National Parks as we have a small dog as a companion and we both need power as in a generator, for our medical devices that keep us mobile.

A Cpap machine and a neuro stimulator are now an integral part of our twilight years.. GO FIGURE????


1 wife 1 dog and a sieve. NAPFA & QSMA member,

3 users like this post: LoneWolf, cheers, Bluecurrant

#54

Creekbed
Member
From: Here & There
Joined: 06 February 2013
Posts: 109
Member
09 August 2017 10:11 pm

Tathradj wrote:

They are classifying a High Banker to be a Mechanical device
as it has a Mechanical Water Pump attached to it.

That is not correct! It is neither petrol or battery powered. A Highbanker is an inanimate object that has no moving parts nor does it have a pump attached to it.

You may use a pump to transfer water to the sluice body but that pump is not part of the apparatus and if you were to set the pump so the hose does not actually attach to the highbanker then they are two separate pieces of equipment.

A water pump is still legally able to be used to move water for the purpose of prospecting or fossicking.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.

3 users like this post: mbasko, LoneWolf, cheers

#55

7.62marksman
Member
From: Nowra, NSW
Joined: 26 July 2016
Posts: 6,997
Member
09 August 2017 10:19 pm

Ok this is maybe one solution
so the law states that you cant have a pump hooked up to a highbanker as that is illegal no grey area there now
it is ok to pump water from the river
so there for if it is not connected to the highbanker and only used as a hose like you would hose your garden then it should be fine remembering that its not connected to any thing
i am sure we could adjust our bankers to do this i know i can with mine
shoot me down or build me up its just a maybe this will work maybe this way is legal


Highbanker, Sluice, Trommel, Gold Monster 1000 (Khaleesi), Garrett Ace 400i (Rhaegal), Go-Find 40 (Nymeria), Non Turbo 2.8lt Hilux (Turtle), NAPFA member ----Even a broken clock is right twice a day

2 users like this post: iamagoldenoldie2, Bluecurrant

#56

iamagoldenoldie2
Member
From: south west Sydney
Joined: 07 August 2016
Posts: 406
Member
09 August 2017 11:11 pm

a motor and pump connected to a highbanker is the current defined illegality, as Marksman suggests and I have eluded to , if its not connected then there should not be a problem , simply redesign the spray bar to be independently self supported and not connected, a cooling shower for the operator , but they will work around that one , I assume that the environmental concerns relate to the silt runoff which can be managed however the "no excavation" part is the other dark horse yet to be let loose, prepare for that possibility.
All in all , one needs to examine the intent and context of any Act or Regulation with its application to fossicking, if you have read the business activity reports published by the Regulator , fossickers are insignificant to the purpose of the mining act and regulation, the large mining corporations are killing workers and destroying the environment and worst of all not paying their fees, all this is openly reported

2 users like this post: 7.62marksman, Bluecurrant

#57

Jemba
Member
Joined: 29 August 2016
Posts: 214
Member
10 August 2017 12:28 am

Guy’s you must keep in mind if you were to go to court and fight a charge the government pockets will be so much deeper than yours.
So I ask this just what dose high-banking mean? What it means to me is this. It allows me to take the water to the dirt and not the dirt to the water. By taking the water to the dirt or work area if you like cut’s down on a lot of manual labor. Where as if I was to use a wheelbarrow and take the dirt to the water and dump it in a longtom or sluice would mean a lot more work. But I would be within the law at this point in time.


When Injustice Becomes Law Resistance Becomes Duty.

#58

aussiefarmer
Member
Joined: 26 July 2015
Posts: 3,163
Member
10 August 2017 12:34 am

I do love the ingenuity of these hose ideas thumbsup and if all appeals fail we will need to think out of the box , but bending the rules isnt helping reverse the law changes that are basically another notch in their belt towards a total ban on interacting with the bush.

This great hobby has been attacked from many angles and slowly they are strangling the life out of it sad and the stupid part is the more ground they have stopped access to (with conservation areas etc) more concentrated and obvious our diggings have become.
Also the Tv shows and internet have introduced this hobby to a young fit style of cashed up newbies with high capacity bankers and they believe quantity will deliver riches instead of digging smarter through good research and knowledge , then at the end of the day when their exhausted and dissapointed they just drive away leaving their mullock heaps pilled up like trophies for the day out.

Almost any trip to a public area i have done i have either seen people breaking rules or seen the aftermath, i honestly cant remember a public spot without rubbish or banker mounds .

I am not sure that these laws are coming from people on the ground so much , unless its a push from the tree change lifestyle blockies that dont want people in "their" creek or even the odd ranger on a power trip, i more think its the office dwelling nature experts, that simpily dont want people in the NSW bush and if that is the case we are screwed.

I dont know the answer but i do believe proving these struggling historic towns will disappear is key, as most tourists come to fossick , look at Victoria where access to maps and fossicking areas are promoted through goverment links , the historic gold towns are thriving and growing and really make NSW gold towns look derelict and forgotten , to me NSW government obviously sees the old diggings as a ugly scar on the environment and refuse to promote them and basically want to lock the whole bush up to stop any further degradation .

We are being guided by highly educated fools , they are that smart they are dumb, being a farmer i am used to silky handed proffessors making rules and decisions on things they have neved physically seen or done , god help this country when the next generation of wifi educated ,never been told no, experts come to power roll

Well.... i vented and dont feel much better anyway lol i started because i thought the thread was drifting off topic but i only made it worse lol

Last edited by aussiefarmer (10 August 2017 12:38 am)


Wish in one hand and poo in the other , See which one fills up first !

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#59

Tathradj
Moderator
From: Tathra, NSW
Joined: 17 February 2014
Posts: 8,704
Moderator
10 August 2017 09:31 am

You are correct CreekBed.
That is how they are classifying a HighBanker and the main
argument is that a HighBanker is a static device.
Just because there is a hose from the pump attached to it in their
minds is a mechanically assisted device.
We know it isn't.

Creekbed wrote:
Tathradj wrote:

They are classifying a High Banker to be a Mechanical device
as it has a Mechanical Water Pump attached to it.

That is not correct! It is neither petrol or battery powered. A Highbanker is an inanimate object that has no moving parts nor does it have a pump attached to it.

You may use a pump to transfer water to the sluice body but that pump is not part of the apparatus and if you were to set the pump so the hose does not actually attach to the highbanker then they are two separate pieces of equipment.

A water pump is still legally able to be used to move water for the purpose of prospecting or fossicking.


A couple of HiBankers inc. accessories, , QED, 4500, SDC2300, Gt1600,
Aldi, A Prado 4x4, A'Van Cruiseliner and a heck of a lot of determination.
Most importantly, A lot of Good Honest Friends. Maybe one day Lucky.

3 users like this post: 7.62marksman, Billy, mudgee hunter

#60

G0lddigg@
Member
From: Brisbane, QLD
Joined: 03 April 2013
Posts: 4,988
Member
10 August 2017 10:22 pm

Can call them out on this term alone. T he highbanker is still a highbanker without the pump and will work by bucketing water into it.

"The use of a highbanker, which is a petrol or electric powered device, in fossicking, is prohibited by the Mining Regulation 2016"

Put ur hand up if you have a petrol driven highbanker??? No one.... well it will be an interesting discussion on tje day how a hose a pump and the other thing are all considered a highbanker.


*The real Gold is the Journey and the friends we make
Engineering Gold Sluices and Highbankers

5 users like this post: 7.62marksman, MikeB05, Tathradj, Billy, aussiefarmer

#61

iamagoldenoldie2
Member
From: south west Sydney
Joined: 07 August 2016
Posts: 406
Member
11 August 2017 01:44 am

when the NSW attacked the greyhound industry , they didn't care about the comet tail effect that follows an industry or a hobby, they may say, "You can go on fossicking, take your pan and shovel and go of it" but don't use your ingenuity and use other more effective methods, the mining act and regs where, as I believe , drawn up to address the big league, the ones that may , and do cause environmental damage as constantly reported in the Regulators monthly Business Activity Report, fossickers may be a backup to the statistics required to justify a departments existence , over the past 6 months , there has been little demonstrated by the regulators that the division is an effective regulator towards the top end of the mining industry, perhaps they need be persuaded by the Ministers to concentrate on those issues and let fossickers be , the receipt of thousands of letters from individuals and supported by associations might be an avenue to pursue, it was once said to me, a petition is a single document , doesn't matter how many signatures but 5000 individual letters piled up on a Ministers desk might be treated a little differently

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#62

G0lddigg@
Member
From: Brisbane, QLD
Joined: 03 April 2013
Posts: 4,988
Member
11 August 2017 10:17 am

Spot on.


*The real Gold is the Journey and the friends we make
Engineering Gold Sluices and Highbankers

#63

shivan
Member
From: Nowra, south coast NSW
Joined: 15 February 2013
Posts: 1,082
Member
11 August 2017 01:48 pm

So we are looking for reasons to allow highbankers rather than get them banned, how about this.

Highbankers should cause less siltation to waterways than sluices or panning, as generally highbankers are used (as Jemba said) to get the water to the dirt rather than the dirt to the water. At places like Oallen the water will make it back to the river but you are not washing dirt directly into the river.
You can also restore the soil profile much easier using a highbanker as you can sluice back into your hole as you dig if you set up correctly, any panning or sluiceing material is getting cleaned and washed directly into the waterway preventing the restoration of the soil profile generally.

Not sure if these point are more of a help or a hinder after reading the again, but still technically true.


Minelab GP Extreme 11" & 18" DD, 2 highbankers, EZ river sluice and a growing collection of sieves and pans

2 users like this post: Syndyne, GaryO

#64

Simmo
Member
Joined: 08 November 2014
Posts: 1,100
Member
11 August 2017 02:36 pm

Guys see here.

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au … p?id=23089


Be like a duck. Remain calm on the surface and paddle like crazy underneath.

#65

NAPFA
Association
Joined: 01 February 2014
Posts: 132
Association
11 August 2017 06:22 pm

It has been great, but not all surprising, to see such an active response from fossickers on this sluicing matter. THANK YOU! thumbsup

NAPFA notes that various suggestions are being put forward to protest against this unreasonable policy and to seek to have it fixed. These range from letters and petitions to rallies and media activity.

While individuals are free to undertake their own campaigns, at this stage, our view is to leave it with NAPFA as we are in dialogue with both Planning, Environment, Resources and Energy (PERE) and the Resources Regulator on how to get a fair and reasonable outcome for fossickers.

If you have not done so already, I would urge you to read our May 2017 Sluicing Report
http://www.napfa.net/upload/NAPFA%20Reg … nal%20.pdf
because it provides a comprehensive review on the current policy, why it needs to change and how it needs to change. It is possible that you won’t agree with all of it, but I can assure you we have consulted at length within the fossicking community, and with manufacturers, in arriving at our final position.

We have an important meeting next week with PERE where we hope that resolution of this issue can be fast-tracked. Our immediate goal is to prepare for that meeting. Our objective is to have the regulation amended to enable highbanking.

Depending on what comes out of the meeting, then we may well seek to rally fossickers and sluicers from all corners of NSW and elsewhere in a strategic communications campaign aimed at overturning this unfair and flawed regulation.

In the meantime it is good that everyone becomes aware of the issue, and takes the time to read the Sluicing paper highlighted above. It is a bit of a read for sure, but please make the effort.

If you are not already a NAPFA member, please get on board as a member and support the organisation that is supporting your fossicking interests.

Here is a link to our membership page
http://www.napfa.net/Join-the-rebellion.html

You can join online.

Regards
Stephen Dangaard
President
NAPFA


The Diggers Oath: "We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other and fight to defend our rights and liberties."

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#66

MikeB05
Member
From: Gold Coast, QLD
Joined: 02 April 2016
Posts: 429
Member
11 August 2017 09:42 pm

2017 Sluicing Report compiled by NAPFA is an excellent document.

Well done NAPFA thumbsup thumbsup thumbsup


MikeB05
Most of the gold I have found so far, comes from learning from others. SDC2300, Gold Monster 1000, Gold Rat River Sluice, Angus McKirk sluices,

#67

DropBear
Member
From: Canberra, ACT
Joined: 04 March 2015
Posts: 517
Member
13 August 2017 09:23 pm

lol..... might as well dredge now also...

#68

iamagoldenoldie2
Member
From: south west Sydney
Joined: 07 August 2016
Posts: 406
Member
14 August 2017 01:39 am

Does length matter ????? the first highbanker I bought was a home made job , and it is long , about 2400mm (8 foot to you old blokes ) and just because of its length , it cant process more than a shovel full at a time , and at the end of few hours of shovelling, you certainly know it, if it was a cubic meter then I would be built by Arnold Schwarztaneggar, to me length does matter , it allows a longer wash for gemstone to settle out , the gold is always in the first 450 mm , the gemstone are further down so the helpers if any have time to sort thru to see if they can find something ,

The NAPFA submission is right on the mark . in every detail , and the response to any argument raised is fully address, the difference between a dredge and a highbanker is like comparing a industrial vaccum cleaner , the so called dredge to a dust pan and brush . two fact remains , why didn't the Government advisors respond to the questions relating to what appears to me as a dismissal of the facts when considering =the changes to the regulations, changes to an ACT requires Parliament t to decide , whereas what I believe , the changes to the Regulations only needs the Ministers consent, so why the runaround, perhaps as individuals we could ask our Member in Parliament t that question, any thoughts on that , and let NAPFA carry on with negotiations with PERE

#69

aussiefarmer
Member
Joined: 26 July 2015
Posts: 3,163
Member
14 August 2017 08:11 pm

Had a thought today and i am sure someone in the know is probly working on it , i am thinking if someone is affiliated with the gem and treasure magazines to get them to do a big artical on the issue with comment from towns that are going to suffer as well as a timeline of all the moves made by nsw goverment bodies in the last 20 years that are slowly killing the prospecting ability of nsw people and the way states that promote prospecting have their small towns thriving .
If its a great and informitive artical it should be possible to get a few major papers to run the story aswell.


Wish in one hand and poo in the other , See which one fills up first !

3 users like this post: cheers, mbasko, Billy

#70

Jemba
Member
Joined: 29 August 2016
Posts: 214
Member
16 August 2017 08:29 am

I would like to thank G0lddigg@ for his support and for what he has done for our cause. thumbsup I only wish more bossiness would follow suite. Thanks Golddigg@ Jemba


When Injustice Becomes Law Resistance Becomes Duty.

3 users like this post: GaryO, HeadsUp, G0lddigg@

#71

Tathradj
Moderator
From: Tathra, NSW
Joined: 17 February 2014
Posts: 8,704
Moderator
20 August 2017 12:21 am

Looks like it is spreading to Victoria.
Note the reference to Hosing down Banks. WTF. ??
https://au.prime7.yahoo.com/v1/video/-/ … icing-ban/


A couple of HiBankers inc. accessories, , QED, 4500, SDC2300, Gt1600,
Aldi, A Prado 4x4, A'Van Cruiseliner and a heck of a lot of determination.
Most importantly, A lot of Good Honest Friends. Maybe one day Lucky.

2 users like this post: Eldorado, aussiefarmer

#72

Eldorado
Member
From: , NSW
Joined: 21 July 2015
Posts: 1,308
Member
20 August 2017 06:29 am

Tathradj wrote:

Looks like it is spreading to Victoria.
Note the reference to Hosing down Banks. WTF. ??
https://au.prime7.yahoo.com/v1/video/-/ … icing-ban/

I did notice that the "environmentalist"didn't want to have her name displayed on the screen.Also at the end of the video,there is two big tree stumps where obviously two big trees have been cut down next to the creek,apparently that is acceptable practice to the habitat of our native species.As for the hosing down of banks,it just proves these people have no bloody idea what sluicing or highbanking involves.

1 user likes this post: Bluecurrant

#73

Danielkrupski
Member
Joined: 02 July 2013
Posts: 347
Member
20 August 2017 10:42 am

Hosing down banks is hydraulic sluicing which is a no no anyway. Highbanking is completely different. Would think that someone would research the difference befor commenting on tv. Just like in the movie wog boy. Lion, elephant the same? Really? And these are the people trying to change our great hobby. Bullshit!

1 user likes this post: Bluecurrant

#74

7.62marksman
Member
From: Nowra, NSW
Joined: 26 July 2016
Posts: 6,997
Member
20 August 2017 11:16 am

i really wish people know what they are talking about before they open their mouth and make a fool of themselves on TV mad mad

Last edited by 7.62marksman (20 August 2017 11:17 am)


Highbanker, Sluice, Trommel, Gold Monster 1000 (Khaleesi), Garrett Ace 400i (Rhaegal), Go-Find 40 (Nymeria), Non Turbo 2.8lt Hilux (Turtle), NAPFA member ----Even a broken clock is right twice a day

2 users like this post: Rockhunter62, Bluecurrant

#75

aussiefarmer
Member
Joined: 26 July 2015
Posts: 3,163
Member
20 August 2017 01:02 pm

They dont care how its done they just want the bush locked up , imo.

20 years ago a sheila in Canberra asked what i did for a living so proud as punch i said farmer , she went of her nut saying all farm land should be returned to bush , i said get me your shopping docket and i will cross off everything thats a product of farming and i bet her there would only be chemicals left , these fools have no idea about the bush and dont want to learn about where things are come from or how things are done.

A part of me dreams of a day when people have to be self sufficient for a month or two and then we will either have a smarter race or maybe just the ones with guns left wink


Wish in one hand and poo in the other , See which one fills up first !

7 users like this post: Billy, diggin4gold, Tathradj, MikeB05, 7.62marksman, Bluecurrant, jamie

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