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#1

hippyhunter
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Joined: 06 November 2017
Posts: 565
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21 May 2021 02:32 am

I've been playing around with the qed settings with the sadie coil and have come up with a bit of a different option for setting up than is suggested by QED officials.

What i will do is turn on (factory reset settings), set on mode 1, then turn gain up to max. Then i go to thsb and instead of looking for null as per normal, i wind it right down until i can hear a solid loud (annoying, may need to turn volume down a bit) threshold.
(I found it to be around thsb 20 on pl3 firmware and about 12 with pl4 firmware).
Then from there gradually raise thsb one ore two notches until you hear the emi start to occasionally disturb the threshold. Once you have raised it as much as you feel comfortable with as far (as the threshold being stable), ground balance, turn the volume down a little if its too loud for your liking (i also lower the pitch as its more tolerable for me) and thats it.

I have noticed so far the closer to null you can get from the very solid threshold setting in thsb, the more depth you get. Counting the distance i can hear a target by a definate threshold break i think i am in front as opposed to trying for just under null.?!
I have only recently started setting up this way and still want to test it a bit more in the field.
Would be interesting for me to hear from other qed owners if they wouldn't mind giving it a go.

I definately found emi to be less annoying with this setup.. im not sure if the settings are making me lose out in some way though.

*note i am using a small amp during this method.

Last edited by hippyhunter (21 May 2021 02:38 am)

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#2

Reg Wilson
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Joined: 06 September 2017
Posts: 841
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03 June 2021 01:56 pm

I left it for some time before commenting, as I was curious to see the response from QED owners. The silence was deafening.

I would suggest you bury a coin at a foot. I have used a twenty cent piece.

Setting THS b below null will give a good response on tiny gold, but will kill depth on larger deeper targets. I never set below null. By setting above null you may sacrifice tiny targets, but will still pick up small bits, as well as the better deeper ones. Deeper tone is a good option also for those deep signals.

By using a buried coin you can experiment with the settings to give you the best options.

Let us know your results.


Walmer Central Victoria
Began detecting 1979 Best colour 3Kgs Best patch 340 ozs.

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#3

hippyhunter
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Joined: 06 November 2017
Posts: 565
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03 June 2021 06:21 pm

Heyo reg. Yeah, have read that from you on previous threads. I can also use same method but jack the thsb up instead of down, as mentioned above. thsb somewhere above 70 (cant remember that one precicely). So could also go high thsb for larger targets. Mind you i will need to test a larger target with that method to see if its as effective as when i set up low thsb. I will give a coin a go at 1 foot over the weekend with high thsb and post what happened.. cheers
Am still not 100% sure on setting up this way but it sure makes the detector run more stable (solid uninterupted threshold hum)

Last edited by hippyhunter (03 June 2021 07:09 pm)

1 user likes this post: Reg Wilson

#4

XLOOX
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From: Inglewood Fault, QLD
Joined: 21 August 2019
Posts: 124
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03 June 2021 07:43 pm

Hippyhunter do you use headhones/earphones or the Nokia/Logitech speaker?

I find that earphones allow me to hear a continuous threshold hum on detector settings where the speaker is totally silent.

I dont like silence so I set it up that way.

I normally only run B at null -2 with Sadie or +2 with 18Elite. I will have a go at your settings next time I am out, but that may be a while


1985-2005 Garretts ADS Deepseeker x 2- now THATS a slow learner !
2017-2021 Whites TDI SL 16V+Sadie, Makro Gold Kruzer, QED PL3+14x9 Evo, Elite18

1 user likes this post: hippyhunter

#5

hippyhunter
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Joined: 06 November 2017
Posts: 565
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03 June 2021 08:45 pm

Hi xloox. Yes this is just using the supplied logitech speaker. I have noticed that the threshold is more easily heard using wired earbuds/headphones. I prefer the speaker where possible thoigh for comfort which is why i am messing with the extra loud threshold from thsb setting. Plus, am finding better stability (practically rock solid threshold, with sensitivity still good). Yeah give it a go next time you get a chance to see what you think.
Hopefully i get the chance to try it way above null this weekend to test a buried target at 1 foot as reg suggested

#6

hippyhunter
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Joined: 06 November 2017
Posts: 565
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03 June 2021 08:50 pm

XLOOX wrote:

I normally only run B at null -2 with Sadie or +2 with 18Elite. I will have a go at your settings next time I am out, but that may be a while

Yes thats how i normally run the sadie coil also. I found it a bit noisy that way on my machine unless gain was lowish, which is why am having a shot at this possible other way

#7

Reg Wilson
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Joined: 06 September 2017
Posts: 841
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03 June 2021 10:48 pm

Like so many of the QED features, the Logitech speaker is cheap and nasty. Howard's obsession with 'cheap' has resulted in a detector that looks like a kid's school project. A far better speaker is the JBL Wind speaker. A whole different audio.
Forget about the 'official' recommended below null setting if you want to find anything better than 'flypoop'.


Walmer Central Victoria
Began detecting 1979 Best colour 3Kgs Best patch 340 ozs.

#8

Rockhunter62
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From: Roaming, WA
Joined: 03 May 2016
Posts: 3,316
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03 June 2021 10:59 pm

"Like so many of the QED features, the Logitech speaker is cheap and nasty."

And I thought that was a cup holder for their latte.

Cheers

Doug


Forest Gump once said "life is like a detector going beep, you don't know what it is till you dig it up"

#9

ronniecruisin
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Joined: 28 July 2014
Posts: 424
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03 June 2021 11:15 pm

I had one of the original first run machines and I found the best setting was 3-4 above null for the best target response. Little bit noisier but I soon learned how to listen through the noise. Got used to that running minelabs too. Targets still stand out. The QED I currently have seems the same. Run above null for best depth. Ronnie.


Oh Well!...It's not the end of the world.....That'll probably happen tomorrow!

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#10

hippyhunter
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Joined: 06 November 2017
Posts: 565
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06 June 2021 12:46 am

Thanks ronnie. I will try your settings on a buried target too. Will check suoer high thsb vs. your setting vs. Just below null vs. Super low thsb..Looking like it wont be till next weekend now unfortunately, but am excited to see the results.

#11

hippyhunter
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Joined: 06 November 2017
Posts: 565
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06 June 2021 12:49 am

Reg Wilson wrote:

Like so many of the QED features, the Logitech speaker is cheap and nasty. Howard's obsession with 'cheap' has resulted in a detector that looks like a kid's school project. A far better speaker is the JBL Wind speaker. A whole different audio.
Forget about the 'official' recommended below null setting if you want to find anything better than 'flypoop'.

As it happens i have a similar size much better quality speaker on hand so will definately check the difference out when i do the coin burial test

Last edited by hippyhunter (06 June 2021 01:16 am)

#12

ronniecruisin
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Joined: 28 July 2014
Posts: 424
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06 June 2021 05:05 pm

I also find pumping up thsa also can dramatically make the QED very sensitive to small targets. Buried a 5 cent piece on edge about 8" depth. Was able to detect it easily. By raising thsa progressively I could pick it up quite a few inches above the ground. Once again a bit of noise needs to be dealt with but the 5 cent piece stands out thru the noise. No problem. Coil is a 12" ellip nuggetfinder advantage. Agree about the supplied speaker though. Not great. Needs a better one.


Oh Well!...It's not the end of the world.....That'll probably happen tomorrow!

#13

hippyhunter
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Joined: 06 November 2017
Posts: 565
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08 June 2021 12:48 am

Cool. Will give the thsa adjustment a fiddling with as well. Never really touched thsa yet to be honest. Will plant a 5c at 8" also to see how i go with that too

#14

ronniecruisin
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Joined: 28 July 2014
Posts: 424
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08 June 2021 09:31 am

Make sure you plant it on edge. I dug my hole then pushed the coin in the bottom of the hole with my finger. That way you know tis on edge when you backfill.


Oh Well!...It's not the end of the world.....That'll probably happen tomorrow!

#15

hippyhunter
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Joined: 06 November 2017
Posts: 565
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11 July 2021 09:48 pm

Found some time to give it a bit of a go today. It pretty quickly became evident its not really a good idea. Only had time to play around with a 5 cent on edge at 8 inch. With the super low thsb (13)i could only get a signal at about 7 inches. With super high thsb (71) i got signal at 8 inch. They where both mode 1 gain 64 with the sadie.
I did a factory reset and gave just under null (thsb 48) a try (mode 3 gain 1) and got a signal at 9 inch. Got it to go close to 10 inch with thsb at 41 which was pretty stable. I then tried upping the thsa and got several extra inches more depth. It was getting a bit dark by then, but had seen enough to get the main point.
I had a quick try setting above null before leaving, but found it a bit noisy compared to below null. Will give above null a bit more of a look next time i get the chance to pop out for a play.

#16

hippyhunter
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Joined: 06 November 2017
Posts: 565
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11 July 2021 11:54 pm

Actually am thinking now maybee my null point has changed since the pl4 update. I didnt check today, was just assuming it was same as always has been before.
I better check that before i try above null next time

#17

BrokeInBendigo
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Joined: 28 July 2020
Posts: 75
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12 July 2021 09:32 am

Raise your ths A pretty high and then null will be the quietest setting. Easier to find it with a high A.

Keep in mind null will change as the machine warms up. Mine usually shifts 3 before it stabilizes. Only really happens when it’s colder out. Wasn’t an issue in warmer months for me.

Anyways, if you care about null, you need to find it anew each time you turn the detector on.

That said I always ran my B on the lower or upper boundary, just before it gets noisy. Found I got the best response on the targets I was looking for when doing that. Fine tune by using a test target and raising A while moving B closer to null. There’s a sweet spot where you get the best performance - since both A and B contribute to depth, but increasing the intensity of either increases noise, there is a point where their individual contributions to depth, when summed, result in the best depth - on targets above or below the GB hole time response. Must use a test target else it’s a punt. Multiple test targets actually

Edit: if you set up like I described, you don’t need to worry about what null is. The important B values are the upper and lower bounds where it starts to get noisy. And those values depend on your A, mode and gain. If you set at null you get middling performance all over, this is the weakness of the QED performance. So really you need to decide to focus on larger or smaller targets and tune for that.

Last edited by BrokeInBendigo (12 July 2021 09:35 am)


GPX 5000 / sP01 / NF coils

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#18

hippyhunter
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Joined: 06 November 2017
Posts: 565
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13 July 2021 02:49 am

Thanks BIB. I will refer back to this thread next time i get out, probably not for a month unfortunately at the moment (mind you, 12hr shifts on sundays is pretty much gold also, haha).
I've never even tried adjusting thsa before as have no idea about it really and didnt really want to muck about too much with settings, with the limited hours i get to go detecting. Feel like i will be able to get a bit of extra depth next time out compared to previously smile

#19

BrokeInBendigo
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Joined: 28 July 2020
Posts: 75
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14 July 2021 04:02 pm

Mate that's a lot of work! Have you got a faraday cage at home so you can do some testing from the recliner with a tasty beverage in the other hand?

Yeah, it's a bit of effort to set it up but once you understand what the settings do it's pretty straightforward. Hope it doesn't take you too many outings to grok it.

In one way, the weakness of only being able to get max performance on small or big things is a blessing - you can ignore lead shot pretty good big_smile That'll make your day out more enjoyable!


GPX 5000 / sP01 / NF coils

#20

hippyhunter
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Joined: 06 November 2017
Posts: 565
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15 July 2021 05:47 am

Yes i got plenty of OT for the next month as the DC i am working in is shutting.it'll be a good opportunity for me to move closer to the gt.so i can detect weekly at the least. I reckon i will get more familiar with it when i get to detect more frequently. It will be nice getting out more too, as i think i only managed 4 days of detecting in the last 1-2 years.bloody disgraceful!! smile
I have a .8 gram lead shot and a ccouple of .8 gram nuggets (one smooth one prickly) for testing on setup. I have a smaller nugget too about .4g i think. I dont mind finding a few bits of lead here and there. It usually gives me a boost mentally cos i tell myself everyone else missed it, and maybee other stuff too

#21

Rodt
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From: Gunnedah, NSW
Joined: 11 December 2020
Posts: 33
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15 July 2021 08:17 am

BrokeInBendigo wrote:

Raise your ths A pretty high and then null will be the quietest setting. Easier to find it with a high A.

Keep in mind null will change as the machine warms up. Mine usually shifts 3 before it stabilizes. Only really happens when it’s colder out. Wasn’t an issue in warmer months for me.

Anyways, if you care about null, you need to find it anew each time you turn the detector on.

That said I always ran my B on the lower or upper boundary, just before it gets noisy. Found I got the best response on the targets I was looking for when doing that. Fine tune by using a test target and raising A while moving B closer to null. There’s a sweet spot where you get the best performance - since both A and B contribute to depth, but increasing the intensity of either increases noise, there is a point where their individual contributions to depth, when summed, result in the best depth - on targets above or below the GB hole time response. Must use a test target else it’s a punt. Multiple test targets actually

Edit: if you set up like I described, you don’t need to worry about what null is. The important B values are the upper and lower bounds where it starts to get noisy. And those values depend on your A, mode and gain. If you set at null you get middling performance all over, this is the weakness of the QED performance. So really you need to decide to focus on larger or smaller targets and tune for that.

Mate a new owner and learner here. Three questions from the above

1. What do you call "pretty high" THS A? and
2. Logic would tell me that you need to focus on smaller targets as most of the larger would be gone by now but does this mean it won't pick them up if you happen to stumble across? I suppose it would be handy to know how you define smaller and larger.
3. Unless I have misunderstood how do you setup differently for small and large targets?

Thanks in advance

Rod

#22

BrokeInBendigo
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Joined: 28 July 2020
Posts: 75
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15 July 2021 05:55 pm

Rodt wrote:

Mate a new owner and learner here. Three questions from the above

1. What do you call "pretty high" THS A? and
2. Logic would tell me that you need to focus on smaller targets as most of the larger would be gone by now but does this mean it won't pick them up if you happen to stumble across? I suppose it would be handy to know how you define smaller and larger.
3. Unless I have misunderstood how do you setup differently for small and large targets?

Thanks in advance

Rod

hi Rod,

This stuff isn't really critical to operating the QED but I'll try to answer your questions.

1. For the purposes of accurately finding THS-B's null, "pretty high" means, well, it depends. When you raise THS-A, the range of THS-B values that are not noisy shrink.

With a low THS-A (say, 30), you may a range of THS-B values that are silent, maybe its from 45 to 55. So it may not be clear which one is the null/neutral THS-B value.

You could just leave THS-A at factory default (IIRC that's 30), and then follow the manual to find B's null. You're directed to reduce B until it starts to get noisy, take note of its value, then increase it til it gets equally noisy, and halfway between those is the null value. What I described is a perhaps more straightforward and sure way to get your THS-B null. Might also be in the manual somewhere, don't remember.

Raise THS-A a bit, say to 50, and the range of silent THS-B values shrink down to say 48 to 52. If you raise THS-A higher, maybe to 75 or 80, you'll find that there is a single THS-B value that is the quietest. That's your null. Can't give you a specific THS-A value - this is just a generalized process to find your THS-B null.

2. Your logic is sound, an indeed there are far, far more small targets than large. This would have been the case before the big ones had been found as well. By "setting up for small targets", we mean that the detector will be set up to get the best depth on small targets, but you will sacrifice depth on large targets by doing this (and vice-versa).

Small targets are those that produce a rising pitch response. Large targets are those that produce a falling pitch response. You could say that small targets are under ~2.5g and large are over that, but it really depends on the shape, size, and texture of the target. The detector is not responding to the mass of the target, it's responding to its electromagnetic characteristics.

More specifically, for the QED, my understanding is that targets are divided into rising or falling pitch responses according to your ground balance value. The manual has some information on the "GB hole", which is a particular target response that matches closely the signal the ground is giving off. Targets with this response will be totally missed by the detector. This is pretty rare, though. The GB hole target response is in between rising pitch and falling pitch target responses. Changing the GB value shifts the GB hole target response, and changes which targets are rising or falling. You need not worry much about this.

So the question is, do you want increase your ability to hit gold that is far more common (small), but lower your chances of hitting a larger target? Or, do you want to increase your ability to hit larger targets but skip some of the more common small gold?

The Minelab detectors have an advantage here in that they way they send out pulses focuses on both large and small targets. It's not apples to apples but you could imagine that they have both a high and low THS-B value at the same time. This is perhaps the most significant difference between a GPX and a QED.

3. You set up for small targets by reducing your THS-B, and for large targets by raising your THS-B. You can also leave THS-B at its null value and then can increase THS-A higher. My understanding is that you'll get a *decent* response on all targets, but really can only get max performance by moving THS-B up or down from null, and lower THS-A a bit to accommodate the more extreme THS-B values.


GPX 5000 / sP01 / NF coils

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#23

BrokeInBendigo
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Joined: 28 July 2020
Posts: 75
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15 July 2021 05:58 pm

hippyhunter wrote:

Yes i got plenty of OT for the next month as the DC i am working in is shutting.it'll be a good opportunity for me to move closer to the gt.so i can detect weekly at the least. I reckon i will get more familiar with it when i get to detect more frequently. It will be nice getting out more too, as i think i only managed 4 days of detecting in the last 1-2 years.bloody disgraceful!! smile
I have a .8 gram lead shot and a ccouple of .8 gram nuggets (one smooth one prickly) for testing on setup. I have a smaller nugget too about .4g i think. I dont mind finding a few bits of lead here and there. It usually gives me a boost mentally cos i tell myself everyone else missed it, and maybee other stuff too

Probably spent more time sitting on the commode than with a detector in hand past couple years... that's no way to live! Yeah going hours without a target is rough, especially in the GT you know that means the area's been well-hit. I agree, you'll have the QED down to second-nature in no time once you get out and about with it more often.


GPX 5000 / sP01 / NF coils

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