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#1

Dr Lex Winter
Banned
Joined: 13 January 2021
Posts: 20
Banned
13 January 2021 09:25 pm

Hello, I am new here, not so new to prospecting. Picked it up as a young lad under my fathers tutelage. Did many gold fields through my younger years but gave it away due to work consuming my life. I dated a doctoral candidate in geochemistry for a few years which led to my gold bug returning, and over the last few years have found myself going on solo adventures more and more.

I tend to take a nerdy approach to gold prospecting, and like most of you spend far too many hours paining myself over my ultimate DIY man humpable wash plant that will fit within the ridiculous confines of the law. I am a lawyer by profession so the legislation on these topics is something I have skim read a few times. I'm pretty sure that all of us break it, we aren't allowed to move more than 1 cubic meter of earth in one 48 hour period for example. That's absurd. Not eroding river banks is something else I see everyone break, etc. I'd love to hear any interesting stories of encounters with the law on these topics any of you have had. I'm waiting for my first fine to see how it holds up in court and how creative I can get to avoid it.

Anyhow I'm mostly here just to deter people from wasting money buying maps you can get free from the government - that was my main reason for signing up. I'm seeing people paying $120+ for 'gold prospecting map books' that literally consist solely of copies of the same maps from the NSW government website we all use and get for free. So here's hoping.

Regards,

Lex.

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#2

StoneTheCrows
Member
From: Central Coast, NSW
Joined: 21 February 2018
Posts: 867
Member
13 January 2021 10:08 pm

Welcome Dr Lex

Sounds like you have plenty of experience
I think you will find that most prospectors stick to the laws and regulations of their respective states thumbsup
Each State has a prospectors association and members usually know what they are allowed to do with regards to moving earth, filling holes, protecting river banks and grounds etc. 100

Post a few pictures of your finds for us to enjoy gold-nugget

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#3

HippyProspecting
Member
Joined: 18 February 2018
Posts: 1,177
Member
13 January 2021 10:24 pm

Welcome dr lex pickshovel goldpan gold-nugget


If you can't convince them, confuse them

#4

Heatho
Moderator
From: Central Coast, NSW
Joined: 29 April 2013
Posts: 13,817
Moderator
13 January 2021 10:41 pm

Dr Lex Winter wrote:

Hello, I am new here, not so new to prospecting. Picked it up as a young lad under my fathers tutelage. Did many gold fields through my younger years but gave it away due to work consuming my life. I dated a doctoral candidate in geochemistry for a few years which led to my gold bug returning, and over the last few years have found myself going on solo adventures more and more.

I tend to take a nerdy approach to gold prospecting, and like most of you spend far too many hours paining myself over my ultimate DIY man humpable wash plant that will fit within the ridiculous confines of the law. I am a lawyer by profession so the legislation on these topics is something I have skim read a few times. I'm pretty sure that all of us break it, we aren't allowed to move more than 1 cubic meter of earth in one 48 hour period for example. That's absurd. Not eroding river banks is something else I see everyone break, etc. I'd love to hear any interesting stories of encounters with the law on these topics any of you have had. I'm waiting for my first fine to see how it holds up in court and how creative I can get to avoid it.

Anyhow I'm mostly here just to deter people from wasting money buying maps you can get free from the government - that was my main reason for signing up. I'm seeing people paying $120+ for 'gold prospecting map books' that literally consist solely of copies of the same maps from the NSW government website we all use and get for free. So here's hoping.

Regards,

Lex.

Hi Dr Lex, we don't actually allow talk on illegal activities on this forum, some people out there may not follow the rules but our members here I would hope and think that they certainly do follow the rules for the states they choose to fossick in.

Anyway welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy it.


Minelab GPX 5000, SDC2300, CTX3030, Equinox 800, patience, lot's of patience.

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#5

Dr Lex Winter
Banned
Joined: 13 January 2021
Posts: 20
Banned
14 January 2021 10:03 am

StoneTheCrows wrote:

Post a few pictures of your finds for us to enjoy gold-nugget

That's one thing I need to start doing! I don't carry any electronics with me when I go prospecting and haven't had a mobile phone for quite a few years now. My adventures tend to be to keep my sanity and escape, as I'm not native to cities (my family are from Parkes) and there is nothing that erodes a mans soul more than suburban and urban sprawl.

But I realised the other day I don't even have photos of my current pets. Only downside of not having a mobile. The rest are pure upsides, mind. When you get home you can't be harassed by work. When you're asleep you can't be woken up. And when you're spending time with friends and family you aren't farting about with a piece of electronics in your hand.

I was looking at the new polaroids and 'instant' type cameras as an alternative to a phone and they work out to be $1-5 per photo, they'd be great as you can stick them in your journal (I keep a journal of my adventures, speck count, etc, and locations, mostly as a camp journal so if I ever go missing someone might find my bones) but at that price - it's a bit rich for my blood! And the price of digital cameras are pretty steep for a good one too. hmm

I might get a cheap iPhone and just not put a SIM in it and not tell anyone I work with. It'd be fun to share the stuff I find (and some of the gorgeous sights) with people who will actually appreciate it!

#6

Dr Lex Winter
Banned
Joined: 13 January 2021
Posts: 20
Banned
14 January 2021 10:19 am

Heatho wrote:

Hi Dr Lex, we don't actually allow talk on illegal activities on this forum, some people out there may not follow the rules but our members here I would hope and think that they certainly do follow the rules for the states they choose to fossick in.

Anyway welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy it.

Thanks mate, but I do tend to discuss the law a lot given it's what I do for a living, and I'm sure you've exerted mechanical force using the simplest of machines--a lever, being your shovel handle--upon a river bank somewhere in Australia which is a breach of the act, or moved more than a cubic meter of earth in a 48 hour period, etc. tongue

I won't however encourage people to dredge the duck ponds of Hyde Park, use nitro to mine, or suggest backyard hydraulic cracking, or pumping arsenic and mercury into the environment. Not because it's the law - but because I'm not a jerk. I hope that won't occasion me to run afoul of the mods? tongue

I tend to be quite vocal on those sorts of things given that it's our civic duty to discuss and oppose laws where they are overtly wrong. Especially when legislators refuse to communicate with prospectors first to establish whether the laws will protect the environment or not and instead consult with the greenies whose aim isn't to make prospecting less damaging but outlaw it entirely.

If this isn't the place I'll understand. Although there are many interesting conversations to be had along those lines that in doing so would probably make better prospectors of all of us! smile

1 user likes this post: RM Outback

#7

golddoctor
Member
Joined: 21 November 2013
Posts: 52
Member
14 January 2021 10:46 am

Welcome mate good to have a legal eagle around,u never know when some advice might come in handy


Diggin always diggin

1 user likes this post: Banjo68

#8

Bush
Member
Joined: 24 January 2016
Posts: 334
Member
14 January 2021 11:48 am

golddoctor wrote:

Welcome mate good to have a legal eagle around,u never know when some advice might come in handy

Nothing`s for Free these Days if it seems that way it`s usually a Bribe. smile

Greetings Dr Winter.


The Needs of Necessity Rides Over Legislative Law. No PHD or Masters Degree then my say is regarded irrelevant.
Knowledge is not Wisdom. Common Sense you were Born with.

2 users like this post: Banjo68, goody2shoes

#9

Banjo68
Member
From: Mid coast, NSW
Joined: 14 December 2019
Posts: 224
Member
14 January 2021 01:31 pm

A lawyer without a mobile phone. ops
Reckon you can afford one lol
Welcome to the forum mate thumbsup


Equinox 800 , Gold Rat sluice , Minelab pans ,pair of worn out boots

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#10

mbasko
Member
From: Central West NSW
Joined: 27 January 2015
Posts: 4,748
Member
14 January 2021 01:33 pm

Dr Lex Winter wrote:
Heatho wrote:

Hi Dr Lex, we don't actually allow talk on illegal activities on this forum, some people out there may not follow the rules but our members here I would hope and think that they certainly do follow the rules for the states they choose to fossick in.

Anyway welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy it.

Thanks mate, but I do tend to discuss the law a lot given it's what I do for a living, and I'm sure you've exerted mechanical force using the simplest of machines--a lever, being your shovel handle--upon a river bank somewhere in Australia which is a breach of the act

Your going way off track talking about things like shovels as being mechanical under legislation!
They are fine to use.

MINING REGULATION 2016 - REG 12 Fossicking wrote:

(2) A person must not carry out work that includes any of the following activities for the purpose of fossicking:
(c) the use of power-operated equipment for the purpose of surface disturbance, excavation or processing on any land,

"power-operated equipment" means any equipment powered by mechanical or electrical means.

Shovels etc. are "powered" by hand power not a mechanical or electrical motor.
Things like 4 stroke petrol motor driven water pumps were outlawed in NSW because the word "processing" was added to the above clause in a 2010 Regulation amendment. Prior to that processing wasn't mentioned in the Regulation.
From the NSW Resource Regulators Fossicking Guidelines:
1610591489_screenshot_20210114-133048_adobe_acrobat.jpg

1610591516_screenshot_20210114-133041_adobe_acrobat.jpg


Everything we use comes from mining or farming.

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#11

Heatho
Moderator
From: Central Coast, NSW
Joined: 29 April 2013
Posts: 13,817
Moderator
14 January 2021 02:37 pm

Dr Lex Winter wrote:
Heatho wrote:

Hi Dr Lex, we don't actually allow talk on illegal activities on this forum, some people out there may not follow the rules but our members here I would hope and think that they certainly do follow the rules for the states they choose to fossick in.

Anyway welcome to the forum, hope you enjoy it.

Thanks mate, but I do tend to discuss the law a lot given it's what I do for a living, and I'm sure you've exerted mechanical force using the simplest of machines--a lever, being your shovel handle--upon a river bank somewhere in Australia which is a breach of the act, or moved more than a cubic meter of earth in a 48 hour period, etc. tongue

I won't however encourage people to dredge the duck ponds of Hyde Park, use nitro to mine, or suggest backyard hydraulic cracking, or pumping arsenic and mercury into the environment. Not because it's the law - but because I'm not a jerk. I hope that won't occasion me to run afoul of the mods? tongue

I tend to be quite vocal on those sorts of things given that it's our civic duty to discuss and oppose laws where they are overtly wrong. Especially when legislators refuse to communicate with prospectors first to establish whether the laws will protect the environment or not and instead consult with the greenies whose aim isn't to make prospecting less damaging but outlaw it entirely.

If this isn't the place I'll understand. Although there are many interesting conversations to be had along those lines that in doing so would probably make better prospectors of all of us! smile

Geez Dr Lex, that's a bit rough spouting assumptions like that. The reason we don't allow talk of illegal stuff on here is that we don't want a holocaust coming down on us hobbyists from some groups that may want to marginalise, discriminate against us and sterotype us, discrimination is a terrible thing wouldn't you agree?


Minelab GPX 5000, SDC2300, CTX3030, Equinox 800, patience, lot's of patience.

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#12

Bush
Member
Joined: 24 January 2016
Posts: 334
Member
14 January 2021 03:25 pm

No No No.
`I` can`t help myself.
Guns Out Blazing.
God Bless America.
Litigation again & again.
This is Australia.
Freedom of Speech and Common Sense will Prevail.
A shovel and a bag a Lime for our Super Extended Egos. lol.
It takes a long time to realize everything we say in effect effects our selves and everyone around us.
Taking into account Posting on P/A is Very Addictable.
But Hey What a Great Site.
A Pleasure to be among the Elite in my eyes. thumbsup

Last edited by Bush (14 January 2021 03:45 pm)


The Needs of Necessity Rides Over Legislative Law. No PHD or Masters Degree then my say is regarded irrelevant.
Knowledge is not Wisdom. Common Sense you were Born with.

#13

ProspectorPete
Member
From: Narre Warren Sth , VIC
Joined: 11 September 2014
Posts: 1,286
Member
14 January 2021 05:11 pm

Hmmm..... not sure what to say really DLW

With an intro like your first 20 posts, good luck on the forum thumbsup

1610604655_rdb9a85da0c9f6f6a62130f18511acb2c.jpg

Last edited by ProspectorPete (14 January 2021 05:26 pm)


GPX4500/NF Coils/sP01/STUMPY Picks
GM1000 Equinox 600

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#14

Banjo68
Member
From: Mid coast, NSW
Joined: 14 December 2019
Posts: 224
Member
14 January 2021 07:22 pm

ProspectorPete wrote:

Hmmm..... not sure what to say really DLW

With an intro like your first 20 posts, good luck on the forum thumbsup

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au … 1acb2c.jpg

Might have to put a movie on so you can enjoy your popcorn lol
Banned. 24 hours 20 posts. Is that a PA record???


Equinox 800 , Gold Rat sluice , Minelab pans ,pair of worn out boots

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#15

ProspectorPete
Member
From: Narre Warren Sth , VIC
Joined: 11 September 2014
Posts: 1,286
Member
14 January 2021 07:48 pm

Wow, so much for sitting back and watching the show lol


GPX4500/NF Coils/sP01/STUMPY Picks
GM1000 Equinox 600

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#16

Smoky bandit
Member
Joined: 05 April 2016
Posts: 5,059
Member
14 January 2021 08:00 pm

Probably a reincarnated banned member. thumbsdown


No pain No gain..

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#17

Jaros
Moderator
From: S.E.Qld., QLD
Joined: 11 August 2013
Posts: 13,621
Moderator
14 January 2021 08:14 pm

We had to what was necessary for the balance of the forum.


F1A4M2, Exterra 705 Gold, Ace 250, Goldrat 8" Dreammat River Sluice.

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#18

ProspectorPete
Member
From: Narre Warren Sth , VIC
Joined: 11 September 2014
Posts: 1,286
Member
14 January 2021 08:20 pm

Jaros wrote:

We had to what was necessary for the balance of the forum.

yep could see a train wreck coming there, good you moved quick on it thumbsup


GPX4500/NF Coils/sP01/STUMPY Picks
GM1000 Equinox 600

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#19

Heatho
Moderator
From: Central Coast, NSW
Joined: 29 April 2013
Posts: 13,817
Moderator
14 January 2021 09:56 pm

Banjo68 wrote:
ProspectorPete wrote:

Hmmm..... not sure what to say really DLW

With an intro like your first 20 posts, good luck on the forum thumbsup

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au … 1acb2c.jpg

Might have to put a movie on so you can enjoy your popcorn lol
Banned. 24 hours 20 posts. Is that a PA record???

Nah not by a long shot. We've had more creative and disruptive in the past. yikes


Minelab GPX 5000, SDC2300, CTX3030, Equinox 800, patience, lot's of patience.

1 user likes this post: RM Outback

#20

goldierocks
Member
Joined: 10 January 2015
Posts: 3,100
Member
14 January 2021 10:06 pm

I think the point he(?) was making was that the definitions are not very clear, and that in legalise things we do (and that we are less formally told we can legally do) would seem to conflict with written legislation. Legally, they would be based on wording in some legislation, not on diagrams, and that is what would be referred to in court. I have encountered this issue with my public liabilty insurance, where they adopted the WORDS of the legislation, but where it was pointed out to me that the insurance company could legally refuse to pay out on a claim if I had used a geol pick or spade.

So I think you are being a bit hard on him. He said "Anyhow I'm mostly here just to deter people from wasting money buying maps you can get free from the government". Something that had always amazed me, that people pay for things from businesses that the government provides free.

Obviously I cannot know if it is a genuine post - but it is easy to make assumptions (for example I know a Dr Lex Winter in a related field who is actually a woman - prefers Lex to her given name of Alexis). Although I see he says lad....but wise people don't put their own names on line.

Last edited by goldierocks (14 January 2021 10:13 pm)


Robert Benchley...
I have kleptomania, but when it gets bad, I take something for it.

#21

goldierocks
Member
Joined: 10 January 2015
Posts: 3,100
Member
14 January 2021 10:16 pm

However I would mention Finders Golden Pages:
"Could someone please let the PA lot know not to take legal advice off that Dr Lex Winter the celebrated lawyer that has just hit the forum with a full band, dancing girls and fireworks.
He is not actually a DR, not actually a lawyer and not actually named Dr Lex Winter.

He's just a goose named Andrew Sanders with delusions of grandeur who even submitted his own Urban dictionary listing about himself".


Robert Benchley...
I have kleptomania, but when it gets bad, I take something for it.

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#22

Tathradj
Moderator
From: Now in Bega, NSW
Joined: 17 February 2014
Posts: 9,872
Moderator
14 January 2021 10:57 pm

10 minutes so far is the quickest I know of.
Over Sea's oriental gentleman flogging electronics
under the guise of a mining expert. lol

Heatho wrote:
Banjo68 wrote:
ProspectorPete wrote:

Hmmm..... not sure what to say really DLW

With an intro like your first 20 posts, good luck on the forum thumbsup

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com.au … 1acb2c.jpg

Might have to put a movie on so you can enjoy your popcorn lol
Banned. 24 hours 20 posts. Is that a PA record???

Nah not by a long shot. We've had more creative and disruptive in the past. yikes


A couple of HiBankers inc. accessories, , QED, 4500, SDC2300, Gt1600,
Aldi, A Prado 4x4, A'Van Cruiseliner and a heck of a lot of determination.
Most importantly, A lot of Good Honest Friends. Maybe one day Lucky.

1 user likes this post: goody2shoes

#23

mbasko
Member
From: Central West NSW
Joined: 27 January 2015
Posts: 4,748
Member
14 January 2021 11:17 pm

goldierocks wrote:

I think the point he(?) was making was that the definitions are not very clear, and that in legalise things we do (and that we are less formally told we can legally do) would seem to conflict with written legislation. Legally, they would be based on wording in some legislation, not on diagrams, and that is what would be referred to in court. I have encountered this issue with my public liabilty insurance, where they adopted the WORDS of the legislation, but where it was pointed out to me that the insurance company could legally refuse to pay out on a claim if I had used a geol pick or spade.

So I think you are being a bit hard on him. He said "Anyhow I'm mostly here just to deter people from wasting money buying maps you can get free from the government". Something that had always amazed me, that people pay for things from businesses that the government provides free.

Obviously I cannot know if it is a genuine post - but it is easy to make assumptions (for example I know a Dr Lex Winter in a related field who is actually a woman - prefers Lex to her given name of Alexis). Although I see he says lad....but wise people don't put their own names on line.

The diagrams you refer to are published by the NSW Resources Regulator. Fossicking: A guide to fossicking in NSW is the full guideline available online.
Yes if you end up in court you are charged under the relevant Act or Regulation & need to defend against their wording. However Codes of Practice, Guidelines etc. can be admissible as evidence when approved/made under the Act & Regulation.
The fossicking guide does state in it "Under the Mining Act 1992 and Mining Regulation 2016, failure to comply with any of the requirements outlined in this guide may result in fines of $750 for an individual, $1500 for a corporation, and a maximum court imposed penalty of $5500."
Legislative Framework
Act – outlines your broad responsibilities.
Regulations – set out more specific requirements.
Codes of Practice/Guidelines/Standards/Policy – provide practical information on how you can meet the requirements in the Act and Regulations.
Regulating agency (in this case NSW Resource Regulator) – administers laws, inspects workplaces, provides advice, develop C.O.P's/Guides/Policy under legislation, & enforces the laws. 

Not saying I disagree that the definitions aren't clear just when you use all the resources available (Act > Regulation > Guide) the intent of the NSW Resources Regulator becomes very clear.
These things have been covered ad nauseam & cause more problems on a forum than they solve. Best to leave lobbying to lobby groups than argue on here & achieve nothing at all (besides disjointed noses).
It is though pretty clear you can use a shovel in NSW even though he repeatedly posted that it is mechanical & not legal under legislation? playful

I don't think members here were to hard on him.
He had several other opinions on contentious topics like Chinese made gear, advised to disregard the law (Do as you please & don't get caught - real professional of a "lawyer") & even took a pretty low swipe at a cancer charity. I'm surprised members held back on him honestly.


Everything we use comes from mining or farming.

#24

Jaros
Moderator
From: S.E.Qld., QLD
Joined: 11 August 2013
Posts: 13,621
Moderator
14 January 2021 11:26 pm

Closed


F1A4M2, Exterra 705 Gold, Ace 250, Goldrat 8" Dreammat River Sluice.


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