More on Bush Power

Update -

B Monkey is currently under test as a Fridge, set to 3 C. I discovered when plugging everything in that the Powertech Power gauge does not reset to zero when it is fully disconnected from load and source. Even though it has no internal power the device stores the last info. It therefore needs to be physically reset after every test. I made sure that was the case this morning when I hooked everything back up.

I am confident that everything was at zero when I did the Engel fridge test, but it now has me questioning the results of the Engel as a freezer as I can't be sure everything was reset.

When today's test is done I'll reset the gauges and do the Engel again as I can precool it tonight on 240 VAC as a freezer. Then in the morning I'll hook the Engel to the battery for its test. At the same time I'll connect the B Monkey to 240 VAC to get that down to a similar freezer temp for the following day's test.

condor22 said:

Update -

B Monkey is currently under test as a Fridge, set to 3 C. I discovered when plugging everything in that the Powertech Power gauge does not reset to zero when it is fully disconnected from load and source. Even though it has no internal power the device stores the last info. It therefore needs to be physically reset after every test. I made sure that was the case this morning when I hooked everything back up.

I am confident that everything was at zero when I did the Engel fridge test, but it now has me questioning the results of the Engel as a freezer as I can't be sure everything was reset.

When today's test is done I'll reset the gauges and do the Engel again as I can precool it tonight on 240 VAC as a freezer. Then in the morning I'll hook the Engel to the battery for its test. At the same time I'll connect the B Monkey to 240 VAC to get that down to a similar freezer temp for the following day's test.

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Looking at your Engel figures I would say that the meter was reset to Zero, because the figures would be a lot higher when used as a freezer, You can tell with just one look as to which one of your fridges as to what it is best suited to do.

If you take one of these fridges and run it at 2 or 3*c and then you cool it down to -12*c and let it settle there for 24 hours and then start the test you will see the power consumption jump from anywhere from 3.1 X what it used when set at 3*c to as much as 6.9 X the power consumption when set to 3*c and at -18*c the Power Draw is even much greater,

Some Fridges will use a Tiny amount of power when used as a fridge and this is used as the main sales BLURB by these companies, But when used as a freezer these same fridges can consume "HUGE" amounts of power and Vice Versa, and all the Tests you see in Mags are BS because where most of them slate a fridge due to it's design or because of it's Hinges is Total BS and has nothing to do with how Good a certain brand of Fridge is and how it performs certain Duties,

I have narrowed it down to TWO Fridge Freezers and they both come in at first place because they both can do their task better than the other along with one other which is Ideal for work or single person use, There is No such thing as the perfect fridge and depending on how you use it or what it's task is should be the deciding factor in which one you buy, It's not about brand loyalty or coz me mates had one for years rar rar rar, You wouldn't buy an electric smart car for going prospecting and you wouldn't buy a double decker bus for doing the Kids school run in the morning and Fridges are just the same, Based on power draw and Temperature required and the job it has to do,

so RR, what fridge/freezer around 60-70L do you reckon is best overall,
& what one is best value for money, without being a big power pig ?

Ded Driver said:

so RR, what fridge/freezer around 60-70L do you reckon is best overall,
& what one is best value for money, without being a big power pig ?

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Well DD, If I wanted to use it as a Fridge and Freezer then I would be going for the ARB 63 or 78L or a Dometic that looks the same inside but ARB due to the lower power draw would be my choice, Not because I like them but because that interior layout works best for duel purpose use, I have seen my ARB 78L use as little as 0.4Ah when set at 2-3*c in temps of around 24 to 28*c,

Fridge Runner the guru
thanks for the info.
I do like my current ARB 47L for its low power draw, but there are times when I need a bigger one, especially when I need to freeze fresh fish fillets while camped on the beach in summer.
Im starting to look now with a view to upsizing by xmas.

Ded Driver said:

Fridge Runner the guru
thanks for the info.
I do like my current ARB 47L for its low power draw, but there are times when I need a bigger one, especially when I need to freeze fresh fish fillets while camped on the beach in summer.
Im starting to look now with a view to upsizing by xmas.

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LOL,

Please Please but what ever you buy do not get a Snomaster unless you want to spend the same amount that you spend on the fridge in buying Solar/Power upgrades, Ok, :Y:

J.

EDIT:- Just as a matter of interest If you like the Blue and grey ARB's you can buy them up to 3 or 400 $ less for what they are charging for the new Black and grey models, but if you wan the Bluetooth feature then you will need to buy one of the Back and Grey Models, :Y:

Our Engel 60L combo has been purring along for past 10 years, can't fault it. And will bore you again about "Old "yellow" 39L 1983.
Nothing would convince me to buy anything but Engel, the only two fridges I've ever owned apart from the 3 way in the van.
Wouldn't fit a compressor fridge in the van, SWHTBO can hear a mouse fart through the night so she would wake very grumpy.

Nightjar said:

Our Engel 60L combo has been purring along for past 10 years, can't fault it. And will bore you again about "Old "yellow" 39L 1983.
Nothing would convince me to buy anything but Engel, the only two fridges I've ever owned apart from the 3 way in the van.
Wouldn't fit a compressor fridge in the van, SWHTBO can hear a mouse fart through the night so she would wake very grumpy.

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Well as I said the top two fridges both perform their tasks better than the other, So depending on what I wanted to use it for would dictate which one I'd use, The Engel actually works best as a single unit being a Fridge or a Freezer, when it comes to being used as one or the other it is the best,

If I want a fridge to do both tasks at the same time then I would say the ARB is the better one of the two, The ARB having multi zones does away with the need to use two fridges because you can set it to -12 -14 etc and still have food stay unfrozen in the dairy compartment and as Condor said the Engel gets too cold in the top to allow it to be used as a fridge and a freezer at the same time, You can set the ARB to -12 and lower and not have the Beer explode, The power draw between the two is almost a mirror image of each other,

I have really been impressed with the speed that the Snomasters cool down, Nothing else come close unless you use liquid nitrogen, Seeing them drop around 20*c in 15 minutes is a sight to behold and I wish all other fridges worked that fast, But the power draw is unbelievable, I saw the little 35L version hit 99.8w and the 95L hit between 111 and 118w, Plugged in to the 240v the little Snomaster has bee plugged in to the AC for 6h 49m and it's already eaten 373w which means by time the 24hrs are up it will have chewed 1313w, My full size house fridge freezer in mid summer here only eats 1068w per 24 hours, I will update the final power it uses tomorrow.

Running the little Snomaster on 12v set to -18* in an Ambient temp of 14*c I have seen the little Snomaster chew very close to 60Ah in 24 hrs, And if it chews that much in temps of 14*c what on earth is it going to chew out in the bush where it's 40*+, To recheck my testing I ran all the fridges at 3 different Temps using 3 different power sources and in the case of the Snomaster I ran it at 3 different power levels because it has Low, Auto and High Power settings when it is run on 12v, I wasn't joking when I said to DD about needing to upgrade the power supply system, But running the little Snomaster in Australia you would need a battery bank that could absorb 60 to 100Ah per day from a powerful solar setup, But more on that Later, :Y:

I didn't say "the Engel gets too cold at the top" I said words to the effect "It has a reasonably constant temperature throughout." Therefore it is what it is set at, Semantics, but there is a difference. In fact if I set a fridge to freeze at the bottom and act as a fridge at the top, I'd be somewhat concerned, lol. A bigger fridge may act differently, but my 30 lt has done a lot of work for a very long time and still does what it is supposed to.

Anyway here are the results of the Engel and Brass Monkey when set as a fridge.

The Engel temp is set a little lower, but that is the problem with a rotary knob graduated from 1-6, you have to tweek it until it hits the mark, lol.

I guess the key figure in both are the AH they use. I might add that the battery was not at 100% when I started the BM test, but I did not expect that to be an issue. Another point, is the reasonably similar solar input over 2 days of similar weather. Also, my driveway is next to a bloody great Willow tree in the next door neighbour's yard, so I don't get sun on the panel till just after 12 noon.

I now have the Engel set to about -17 (5 1/2 on the knob graduations) under test. The BM is on 240 VAC set to -17 for tomorrow's test.

All in all I'm happy with the results (I guess resetting the gauges helps ). However, the ambient temp is mild to cold at the moment, so the fridge insulation isn't a big issue. I'd be interested in doing the same test in hotter weather, I think the Engel would win out here.

At this point, either fridge would suffice and are similar as a 2-4 C fridge. I'll post both fridge results as -17 freezers in a couple of days.

I like the look of the new 'Elements' range ARB Stainless Steel fridge/freezer
Like Nightjar, my brother is a fan of Engel (he has an Engel & a Waeco) so will put some thought into both .
cheers for the info & advice fellas :beer: :beer:

DD our 60L Engel is a combo, two separate compartments. Works faultlessly. My two mates are on their second Waeco. All up they have bought multiple fridges, seven from memory, none of them Engels, while we are still on our two original Engels.

condor22 said:

I didn't say "the Engel gets too cold at the top" I said words to the effect "It has a reasonably constant temperature throughout." Therefore it is what it is set at, Semantics, but there is a difference. In fact if I set a fridge to freeze at the bottom and act as a fridge at the top, I'd be somewhat concerned, lol. A bigger fridge may act differently, but my 30 lt has done a lot of work for a very long time and still does what it is supposed to.

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Sorry Condor but in your post "413" it says this ??

Quote:-

The temperature doesn't vary more than 1 to 2 C anywhere in the fridge, so if I set it to -12, everything will freeze. End Quote.

So I assume from that, That it does get too cold at the top causing everything to Freeze and if your quote is correct then it can't be used as a fridge and a freezer at the same time.

This is not a put down in anyway but it does confirm that the Engel works better as a fridge or a freezer than any other brand, But it can't function as both at the same time. Unlike your Brass Monkey Fridge can, The BM will act more like your house Fridge having cold and warmer areas, where as the Engel is better for freezing because no matter how much you jam in there the Cold Air can still migrate to the top of the lid area because the cooling element stands away from the walls of the fridge which is why it has a more even Temp than the BM does, :Y:

For everyday use the ARB, Dometic and the BM works better in the respect that if you only have room for one fridge then one of these would be the better option along with the power you would save from running only one fridge instead of Two. :beer: erfect:

I think that given the BM is only 15 litres, if I set it to freeze, it will freeze throughout, top or bottom. I guess one test I can do (240 VAC or 12 V) is to set it to zero and check various temp positions in the cabinet. Each end and middle, top and bottom should be enough, with a couple of hours in each spot. The Engel gauge will give a max/min in each position. I have 4 small ice bricks I can put on the bottom (pre frozen).

I still can't understand your logic RR, if the Engel is the same temp at the top as the bottom, how can the "top be too cold" lol.

When I checked the Engel and it showed a 1-2 degree difference in the temp gauge and similar temps top or bottom, I assumed that the difference is that caused by the compressor cycling on and off i.e If the average temp is 2 C and the compressor running takes it to 1 C and then cycles off until it gets to 3 C and then cycles on again etc.

condor22 said:

I think that given the BM is only 15 litres, if I set it to freeze, it will freeze throughout, top or bottom. I guess one test I can do (240 VAC or 12 V) is to set it to zero and check various temp positions in the cabinet. Each end and middle, top and bottom should be enough, with a couple of hours in each spot. The Engel gauge will give a max/min in each position. I have 4 small ice bricks I can put on the bottom (pre frozen).

I still can't understand your logic RR, if the Engel is the same temp at the top as the bottom, how can the "top be too cold" lol.

When I checked the Engel and it showed a 1-2 degree difference in the temp gauge and similar temps top or bottom, I assumed that the difference is that caused by the compressor cycling on and off i.e If the average temp is 2 C and the compressor running takes it to 1 C and then cycles off until it gets to 3 C and then cycles on again etc.

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My logic ?? well it's simple, If the Engel is the same temp in the Top as it is in the bottom and you set it below Zero then you are not going to be able to use it as a fridge because it will start freezing stuff, Which makes the BM the better option if you want to freeze food and still be able to use the Top area as a fridge,

As for using the BM as a freezer it is possible that you might find that the BM might use even more power than the Engel, I found when I tested these 3 fridges at 3*c I compared the ARB 47L and the Snomaster 35L and the Dometic CDF-18L as a Fridge the CDF came in 1st and then the ARB used just a fraction more power Not by Much and then the Snomaster 35 came in way last, But when I set them to -12*c Although the ARB is a 47L it used the leased power with the CDF 18L using 23.67% more power (Ah) than the ARB 47L followed lastly by the Snomaster 35L using a Whopping 73.62% more Ah than the ARB 47L did/does.

When set to -18*c the ARB 47 came in 1st again with the CDF 18 coming in second using 5.94% more Power Ah than the ARB 47 did and then the Snomaster 35L came in last again chewing a Whopping 47.51% more Ah than the ARB 47L did,

Bottom line is although your little BM used a fraction less power than your Engel did when it was used as a fridge, when it comes to freezing don't be too surprized if the little BM chews up to 20% more power than the Larger Engel. On the other hand in much cooler temps I have seen the CDF-18L use as little as 0.113Ah per hour in a 24hr period when set to 3*c.

I hope that helps,

Well I run the test on the little Snomaster and it Chewed 1199w in 24 hours running on 240v AC. :N: oop: ]

The price we pay, lol. So, I'm about to change the fridges to freezers and did exactly that, by putting them both on mains 240 V to get them to temp. However, I forgot that I juggled 8 cans of beer and 4 cans of Coke and they were still in the Engel. I'll put it down to a Seniors moment.

When I went to the car with the frozo blocks to put in the Engel to start the test, hello, there's an amount of frozen coke splattered all over the inside. So instead of doing the test, I had to take the BM out of the way, unshackle the Engel and remove it from the car and let it thaw a little. Then clean the bloody mess and dump all the drinks.

As the BM was already at -15, I've reset the test in the caravan and put the ice blocks in it. Results tomorrow. Did that for a number of reasons; The van battery is bigger, so I'll use a lower % of capacity. There's also more solar and it is not shaded for half the day. There's more room to set up. As the Engel is already out of the car, it's also in the van on mains pre cooling for a similar test. The other reason is that I have 240 VAC charging on the van battery, so I can get it back to 100% before I start a lot faster.

The only thing I can't measure in the van is actual solar input, It's hard wired without Anderson plugs. But given I do have the fridge info on the Powetech gauge and the BM pro giving SOC it's simple math. The main thing is what the Powertech reads in AH consumed.

Goes to show, no matter how foolproof you try to do things, some idiot (me) comes along and stuffs it, lol.

On another note, as mentioned, I have the BM PRO device on both the van and 4x4 aux batteries. The App is on my smart phone, but I have to menu disconnect from one battery and reconnect to the other to know the SOC of both. It's a pain.

I still have my old Galaxy S4 and the wife's S3, both without Sim cards in a drawer. I'd done a complete factory reset wipe on both some time ago and was going to dispose of them. I wasn't sure if they would fire up without Sims. Well they do.

So I ignored all of the initial setups, the Skip button worked well. So, no Network, WiFi, Accounts, GPS etc and I copied the .APK file to them and installed the App and they work.

So, I can leave one in the van when I'm away, let it run constantly from one of my USB charging outlets (if I choose to do so) and the other in the car. Set to an individual battery and no need to constantly changeover.

Decided to split the results fridge below and comments.

Of note - Both these tests were done in the car, ambient temps were similar but daytime slightly cooler and night warmer for the Engel. Fridge temps - The average for the BM fridge was 1.3 C warmer, but close enough to compare. The important figure is the 0.32 AH difference over 24 hours, so too close to call.

Conclusion - Given the similar power consumption the only deciding factor as to which would be used as a Fridge Set to between 2 & 4 C is size.

Here are the test results for the BM set to -15 C in the caravan. The test started at 1130 hrs for 24 hours.

I set the B/Monkey to -15 but did put the Engel gauge in it with the range -14.7 to -17.1. So as far as temp goes it holds very close to set temp or colder. I had the van panels on (200W), yesterday was dull overcast all day, this morning the sun is out. Conclusion - the panels replaced everything the BM used in 24 hours. As I mentioned I could not wire in a Powertech on the panels, but the BM PRO showed 100% SOC. It also showed the voltage at 13.3 V and at the time the fridge was cycling on pulling 3.3 amps. So as a freezer still less than 1 AH per hour (approx 0.93 AH average) be interesting to see what the Engel does.

I'll start the Engel test shortly and post the results tomorrow.

Freezer comparison complete -

Both tests done in the caravan, battery at 100% to start, both had 5 pre frozen ice bricks in the compartment. Ambient temperature very similar for both tests.
The B/Monkey has a digital set gauge and was set to -15, the Engel only has the thermostat knob graduated "Off -6" and was set to about 5.2 to get a rough temp of -15. The max/min temps average to 15.25, so I got close to the mark.
The Engel had a temp range of 2.3 deg and the BM 2.4 deg.

The biggest difference was the AH consumed and the result a little surprising. The Engel used about 25% more juice, however, I can only put that down to the Engel being twice the size (30 lt v 15 lt) and having more work to do.

Conclusion - Given the similar fridge results and the extra Engel freezer power consumption, my choice is simple; keep the Engel as a fridge and use the B/Monkey as required for freezing.

condor22 said:

Freezer comparison complete -
https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/1932/1591077694_freezer_compare.jpg
Both tests done in the caravan, battery at 100% to start, both had 5 pre frozen ice bricks in the compartment. Ambient temperature very similar for both tests.
The B/Monkey has a digital set gauge and was set to -15, the Engel only has the thermostat knob graduated "Off -6" and was set to about 5.2 to get a rough temp of -15. The max/min temps average to 15.25, so I got close to the mark.
The Engel had a temp range of 2.3 deg and the BM 2.4 deg.

The biggest difference was the AH consumed and the result a little surprising. The Engel used about 25% more juice, however, I can only put that down to the Engel being twice the size (30 lt v 15 lt) and having more work to do.

Conclusion - Given the similar fridge results and the extra Engel freezer power consumption, my choice is simple; keep the Engel as a fridge and use the B/Monkey as required for freezing.

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Great test Condor, That is a surprize I would of thought that the BM would have used more than the Engel,

In the tests I did expected the smaller fridges to use less power when used as a fridge and a freezer, but that was not the case, the CDF-18 when used as a fridge used very little power and I expected it to do that when it was used as a freezer but it didn't.