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#251

Jaros
Moderator
From: S.E.Qld., QLD
Joined: 11 August 2013
Posts: 11,415
Moderator
01 December 2019 10:18 am

That's not a very nice way to put it!! sad
If that's the case with you you may as well not visit at all.


F1A4M2, Exterra 705 Gold, Ace 250, Goldrat 8" Dreammat River Sluice.

1 user likes this post: Ridge Runner

#252

robmoto
Member
Joined: 09 May 2018
Posts: 99
Member
01 December 2019 11:17 am

Why not thera,s nothing like a good laugh in the morning .

#253

bicter
Member
Joined: 28 August 2013
Posts: 102
Member
01 December 2019 11:39 am

ctxkid wrote:

all i will say is each cell in a battery is approx 2.2 volts !

do the math

Is this a typo?
Not sure which battery chemistry you're referring to that has an open circuit voltage of 2.2V/cell (13.2V). ie, at rest and unknown state of charge.

Among similar batteries types, the cell voltage can vary at identical states of charge, dependent on the makeup/acidity/temp of the electroyte.

To quote from wiki on lead acid batteries: "IUoU battery charging is a three-stage charging procedure for lead-acid batteries. A lead-acid battery's nominal voltage is 2 V for each cell. For a single cell, the voltage can range from 1.8 V loaded at full discharge, to 2.10 V in an open circuit at full charge.

Float voltage varies depending on battery type (i.e. flooded cells, gelled electrolyte, absorbed glass mat), and ranges from 1.8 V to 2.27 V. Equalization voltage, and charging voltage for sulfated cells, can range from 2.67 V to almost 3 V.[16] (only until a charge current is flowing)[17][18] Specific values for a given battery depend on the design and manufacturer recommendations, and are usually given at a baseline temperature of 20 °C (68 °F), requiring adjustment for ambient conditions." & " If the open circuit voltage of AGM cells is significantly higher than 2.093 volts, or 12.56 V for a 12 V battery, then it has a higher acid content than a flooded cell; while this is normal for an AGM battery, it is not desirable for long life.
AGM cells that are intentionally or accidentally overcharged will show a higher open circuit voltage according to the water lost (and acid concentration increased). One amp-hour of overcharge will liberate 0.335 grams of water; some of this liberated hydrogen and oxygen will recombine, but not all of it"

#254

condor22
Member
From: Adelaide, SA
Joined: 16 December 2013
Posts: 1,623
Member
01 December 2019 12:55 pm

Funny, I post info that is of interest or make comments that are my opinion and that are not emotive and if wrong will say so when proven so. How that can be seen as bitching and sniping is beyond me..............

If someone else is wrong I'll try to support that argument and do so without be insulting to others, same same..............

Comment - Measuring individual cells for the layman at 2.2 V on a sealed AGM battery ????????

Last edited by condor22 (01 December 2019 12:56 pm)

2 users like this post: Ridge Runner, Nightjar

#255

xcvator
Member
From: A Wide Brown Land
Joined: 12 September 2016
Posts: 1,481
Member
01 December 2019 01:16 pm

Occasional_panner wrote:

LOL I don't come here much, but when I do I like to check this thread to see all the bitching and sniping you guys do here.

It's a good laugh.......

It's an electrical thread in a forum lol what else do you expect lol lol lol lol lol

2 users like this post: Ded Driver, robmoto

#256

madtuna
Member
From: , WA
Joined: 12 December 2012
Posts: 2,312
Member
01 December 2019 01:41 pm

like most wanting help threads, you ask 1 question, get 25 different answers and walk away more confused than when you began ops


If guns kill people, cutlery causes obesity. Sporks should be Cat D and have no place in suburbia
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL9zIt … KCVngVrjg?

9 users like this post: Ded Driver, cairnspom, grubstake, ChrisD, robmoto, ctxkid, Gunna, nucopia, Ridge Runner

#257

Ridge Runner
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Joined: 04 September 2014
Posts: 5,400
Member
02 December 2019 09:27 am

Condor your voltage quotes seem to be the normal as posted by others on the net Too, But where it all goes tits up is when we do our own testing,

Take my tests for instance, I'm using what I would call average run of the mill Duel Purpose FLA " Flooded Lead Acid" Deep Cycle batteries Yet the Voltages I am seeing after 5 hours Rest is 13.426v and above +/- and 36/48 hours later I am still seeing 13.300v and above, This high voltage is the reason behind why I am getting such long run times because my fridge is running for 9 to 10 hours before the battery voltage has dropped to 12.890v after 1 hours rest, And also the reason why I can get run times up to 5 or 6 days from a single battery before the Voltage drops to 12.20+ Volts after less than 30 minutes Rest, and when you take into account that these are Duel Purpose type deep Cycle Batteries it kind of contradicts all the negative views and comments about these type of batteries because I am getting longer run times and higher Voltages than those using normal DC and AGM Batteries.

Why am I seeing such high voltages and such long run times is partly because of how I am charging them and partly because of the temps here,

Because of all of the above is the reason why I have not moved to AGM batteries and the reason I have been slow to embrace Lithium type batteries and the overall cost of Lithium batteries over here is a total Rip off , just last week I bought 2 Lithium 40Ah / 512Wh battery packs which I have yet to start playing with because I have been waiting for another fridge to turn up which turned up today, and I am in the process of cooling it down ready to start testing it and then I will start testing with the lithium Packs, So fingers crossed on those 2 events,

Personally because of how my FLA's are behaving I just don't see the need to move to a different type of Battery Tech and the only thing I need to work on is how fast I can Charge them back up, In order to move things along I have bought another 2 150w Solar Panels to give me a total of 600w, 4 X 150w = 600w and I also have a 100w and a 100w portable Panel I am thinking of adding another 4 X 150w so I can get maximum power which means buying the Victron 150/70 MPPT or bigger ??.

As for all the stupid comments going back and forth and all the piss taking people need to knock it off For a Simple reason, We all use different Tech with different Supply Needs and different Charging systems, My setup is seeing higher Stored Voltage, Using batteries that Cause other people issues yet I am using Hi Tech Chargers that I hated within a week of buying them yet I am seeing better more usable results, We can't go calling BS when some one posts their views because unless we are ALL using the same setup then our results will not match what the next Guy See's, As for the Charts posted on the Net none of them are matching the results compared to what I am seeing, Battery power wise I am seeing the best results when it comes to stored Voltage Vs Run Times and my Current Draw is less due to the Ambient temps and that is also being multiplied by the much higher voltage my batteries can store, because sometimes after 11 hours rest my batteries are reading 13.436V and at 6 hours they have read 13.456V and after being taken off the charger I have seen the voltage go from 13.496V and an hour later it has settle at 13.502V which is really weird because how on earth can a batteries voltage go up after it has been disconnected from the charger, Damned if I know But it did happen just the same. yikes sad sad


Dig em all,

#258

condor22
Member
From: Adelaide, SA
Joined: 16 December 2013
Posts: 1,623
Member
02 December 2019 01:11 pm

To start with your Flooded Lead Acid batteries are different to AGMs and I'm not a big fan of them for caravan or 4x4 use.

Their charging voltage is typically lower than an AGM, particularly Boost mode.
The electrolyte needs to be monitored constantly and topped up.
They need to be kept vertical to prevent spillage.
Not recommended for confined space use i.e. under a caravan dinette seat smile

For me their only benefit is the price.

Re your voltages, my knowledge here is vague as 99% of my experience is with CCA under bonnet start batteries in the days of the 13.8V alternator charging smile so I'll leave that to others, sorry.

Good on you for getting such long run times, but my question/s would be, How deep are you cycling them and how long will they last? When you can answer both those Qs you will know if you are doing the right thing, lol.

I've said this before, "I spent most of my working life as an Electro/Mech Designer and with design there are many solutions to any one problem. Cost, available equipment and variety thereof, climate, environment, knowledge, time and personal bias are only some of the factors that will affect choice and outcome."

At the end of the day, if it works, works well and endures, it's right. smile

#259

ctxkid
Member
From: Up Ship Creek
Joined: 12 April 2018
Posts: 2,202
Member
02 December 2019 02:01 pm

more fun than a barrel of monkeys this thread

...


...................................................Such is life........................................................
Oldest Copper coin 1799 left seated half penny, Oldest Silver 1834 Shilling

3 users like this post: Ridge Runner, Ded Driver, Nightjar

#260

Ridge Runner
Member
Joined: 04 September 2014
Posts: 5,400
Member
02 December 2019 02:23 pm

condor22 wrote:

To start with your Flooded Lead Acid batteries are different to AGMs and I'm not a big fan of them for caravan or 4x4 use.

Their charging voltage is typically lower than an AGM, particularly Boost mode.
The electrolyte needs to be monitored constantly and topped up.
They need to be kept vertical to prevent spillage.
Not recommended for confined space use i.e. under a caravan dinette seat smile

The Charging and Repair Mode Voltage Slowly works its way up from about 13.3 to a peak of 16.251V in a 4 hour period "exactly" 4 Hours, These Batteries are Semi Sealed as the have a vent on each end of the Battery So they can not be topped up or monitored in the same way as a Battery with Caps

For me their only benefit is the price.

Re your voltages, my knowledge here is vague as 99% of my experience is with CCA under bonnet start batteries in the days of the 13.8V alternator charging smile so I'll leave that to others, sorry.

Good on you for getting such long run times, but my question/s would be, How deep are you cycling them and how long will they last? When you can answer both those Qs you will know if you are doing the right thing, lol.

I have taken them down to as low as 30% Once "As Per the Manufacturers Specs" But ever since then I have been only taking them down to 50/60% SOC, Like I said the battery ran my fridge for 5 and a half days and the battery was still above 12,20V, These Batteries also have a 5 year warranty

I've said this before, "I spent most of my working life as an Electro/Mech Designer and with design there are many solutions to any one problem. Cost, available equipment and variety thereof, climate, environment, knowledge, time and personal bias are only some of the factors that will affect choice and outcome."

I am well aware of your Electrical Skills which is why I have always Directed any questions I have had in the past to You,

Cost is Not an Issue for me, If I see something I like or want I will buy It, But As of yet I have yet to see any Battery that impresses me enough to make me buy it, I have only bought these Two Lithium Packs as a Play Thing to do some tests with and the other one is a present for Someone, Otherwise I would not of bought any of them,

These FLA/SSLA Batteries will work out fine if I can run enough power in to them which is why I will be running an excess of Solar Panels Due to the Lack of Sunlight.

At the end of the day, if it works, works well and endures, it's right. smile


Dig em all,

#261

Ded Driver
Member
From: West of the Border, WA
Joined: 27 May 2018
Posts: 2,164
Member
02 December 2019 03:50 pm

I ran a SuperCharge dual purpose battery for close to 3 yrs prior to fitting a full Aux Battery system.
I didnt run it down below about 50% & it held up well. These can be good if you look after them.
I have an electronic battery/alternator system analyser & it reckoned the battery was still around 95% health just prior to a trip to the goldfields.
What killed it in the end was some rough roads ... broke a plate off in 1 cell (also shook my UHF aerial to bits at the base spring).
I now have a Century heavy duty 4WD battery with 'plate lock' for my cranking battery.

Last edited by Ded Driver (02 December 2019 03:51 pm)


APLA member, GPX4000, modded SD2100, XTerra705, GM1000, Whites MXT Pro, Nokta Pointer, sP01 Enhancer, Garmin GPSMAP 64S, kti PLB, a map, all sorts of coils & a cupla buckets full of hope & enthusiasm

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#262

Goldchaser1
Member
From: Kalgoorlie, WA
Joined: 28 February 2017
Posts: 795
Member
03 December 2019 04:07 pm

Probably the results of uninsulated dodgy wiring id say,spend the time and protect and fuse everything,this near new ranger spontaneously combusted in the work carpark 2 nights ago,he just bought it,i asked if it had dual batteries,it had system fitted amongst other stuff lately.....
1575349404_60291eb7-b417-44da-b359-5101e0ef160f.jpg

2 users like this post: Rockhunter62, Ded Driver

#263

condor22
Member
From: Adelaide, SA
Joined: 16 December 2013
Posts: 1,623
Member
04 December 2019 01:04 am

That can do it smile

I'm about to install a 110W panel on the 4x4 roof, solar controller etc. I'm running the Negative to a spare roof rail bolt hole so only a short earth wire, but as for the positive.....

Will run about 50cm along the roof rail, in to the rear hatch. I'm looking to run it under the rubber seal and in between the outer body and the rear internal plastic panel, then forward to the battery which is just behind the rear seat. All up 3-4 metres of single core.

But the fuse will be near the panel somewhere up top. No point in fusing it near the controller as the wire has a fair length it could get damaged and short out. Already got the waterproof fuse holder, but until the panel is in place I won't know exactly where it will go.

My BCDC1220 Redarc isn't suitable as a controller, so a separate controller will go to the battery. As I don't want both solar and BCDC charging at the same time, I'm going to switch the panel manually as I don't use the fridge 24/7. I'm thinking of using the same type soft make 10 A circuit breaker as I have in the van on the solar input side. Apart from being switchable as well as added circuit protection, the breaker is designed not to arc n spark when connecting.

Just means remembering to make the circuit when I'm away from the car. If I use a relay the BCDC powers when driving and powers solar when not and I don't want to leave solar on the battery constantly when I'm not using auxiliary power.

1 user likes this post: nucopia

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