More on Bush Power

Nightjar said:

Here is a Youtube relative description of the operation of the Watt Meter Power Analyzer;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jejmnOgck3M&t=31s

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very long winded , but accurate

Nightjar said:

Still trying to find a three pin plug to make up a lead.

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Nightjar,
If you're still looking for the 3 pin connector, have a look at Jaycar https://www.jaycar.com.au/3-pin-0-1-header-with-crimp-pins-2-54-pitch/p/HM3403

You will need to confirm the correct pitch & pin dim'n as I don't have a unit to check against.

or if you have an old broken down computer, you may be able to salvage a connector with wires from it, particularly check the fan connnectors in the Power supply

Terry

Did some mods to the "box of tricks today, removed the old meter and the WMPA slotted into the spot snugly, will tidy it up tomorrow now I know everything is working,
The source is one of the $5.00 batteries in the shed to do the tests with the Watt Meter/Power Analyzer.
Battery source - WMPA - Engel + load.
Old Engel and couple of other items powered up.
Everything turned off it is showing a 0.15 amp load. The only load is the PWM regulator lights (have a small solar on roof) and the WMPA.

Nightjar,
PWM's by their nature will always have a parasitic current drain.
150mA is quite high and should be avoided. I isolate the battery from the PWM and only connect it when 240V is required. This ensure theres is absolutely no parasitic current drain on the battery.

By the way, is that a wind speed/wind direction module bottom right of the piccy?

bicter said:

Nightjar,
PWM's by their nature will always have a parasitic current drain.
150mA is quite high and should be avoided. I isolate the battery from the PWM and only connect it when 240V is required. This ensure theres is absolutely no parasitic current drain on the battery.

By the way, is that a wind speed/wind direction module bottom right of the piccy?

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Bicter, Can you elaborate, I don't understand your mention of only connecting the PWM when 240V is required?

Bottom RH of pic is a little eBay kit I soldered together, bit of training, it reads, time, date, month, year, temperature, don't usually have it running.

I read that WMPA was a PWM 240V inverter, my bad.
My comments were related to that, sorry for misleading, gotta get more sleep :argh:

Leds normally pull less than .01A (10mA) when illuminated.

It would be worth isolating individual components of the system to find the culprit chewing the 150mA power.
It may even be the wattmeter giving an erroneous reading. This can be checked easily enough using the current function on standard multimeter

Took your advice Bicter and connected components individually. What I found is baffling. The 600W inverter. I removed power wire and then replaced it. Removed it again and don't know why i flicked the on the power switch and the alarm light lit and audibke squeeked briefly. Turned the switch off and refitted power wire and it sparked. There must be a capacitor or some rlectronic component that is powered up while switched off? Maybe you or one of the other gurus have an explanation.

these stay active

So, went to see my bush power mate today to get my Aux battery checked after abusing it down to under 6V. It's had the trip back from VIC and other driving around to give it a good charge and was showing "Float Mode" on the Redarc @ about 1A charging, no load.

He has a test kit that bumps 100A load for 9 seconds, so a 100AH battery should at the end of the cycle go no lower than 11.8V, (the voltage does recover as the effective battery use is about 0.25 AH) which means it still has 100AH in it and would be OK. However, it went below that to 11.4 V and his estimate is that my 100 AH is now about a 75 AH.

So, not completely stuffed, but I will need to monitor my usage and charging more often and can expect the voltages to be slightly lower than I would expect from a good battery after say 25 AH DOC.

For those with a penchant for the Math, assuming a use of 25 AH ..... A 100AH @ 75% SOC would read about 12.4 V. As mine is now effectively a 75 AH battery the same 25 AH of use is now 33% DOC and the voltage @ 66% SOC would be around 12.2 V. (At rest voltages, no load, no charge)

So saving pennies for a new battery in the future, lol

condor22 said:

For those with a penchant for the Math, assuming a use of 25 AH ..... A 100AH @ 75% SOC would read about 12.4 V. As mine is now effectively a 75 AH battery the same 25 AH of use is now 33% DOC and the voltage @ 66% SOC would be around 12.2 V. (At rest voltages, no load, no charge)

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you only ever had a 50amp battery :Y:
a battery is flat and screaming to be charged at 12.2v and by a long way from being 66% soc :N:

ctxkid said:

condor22 said:

For those with a penchant for the Math, assuming a use of 25 AH ..... A 100AH @ 75% SOC would read about 12.4 V. As mine is now effectively a 75 AH battery the same 25 AH of use is now 33% DOC and the voltage @ 66% SOC would be around 12.2 V. (At rest voltages, no load, no charge)

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you only ever had a 50amp battery :Y: Only if you're trying to achieve maximum life from the battery
a battery is flat and screaming to be charged at 12.2v and by a long way from being 66% soc :N:

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Again, only if you're trying to maximise longevity of the battery.

bicter said:

[ Again, only if you're trying to maximise longevity of the battery.

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who doesn't want that

longevity or not , a battery at quoted figures requires immediate attention :Y:

I'll post again

if anyone is looking for a new Aux Battery, this mob are having a sale at the moment. batteries selling at a bit over half price!
SLA, AGM, Lithium
https://www.extremebattery.com.au/
there's some good deals in there! 'Optimum' brand 120Ah Lithium for $599 .. although what concerns me with this, & a few brands of lithium batteries, is the standard discharge current .. on this one rated at only 18A (100A peak)

Found these old photos of a generator I built back in the 90's for our bush camp.
Had a 1.5KVA and a 3KVA belt driven, if one played up it was a matter of a quick belt change to get power again. Actually the 3KVA has never been used.
Yanmar diesel power. This generator set up is just our backup now, but served us well for 10+ years, still sitting in the shed and we give it a run a few times a year. The output was a little erratic because the engine wasn't governed but it served the purpose with lights and running battery chargers. (We didn't bother with TV's and other electronic gadgets) Too interested in dry blowing, metal detecting :goldnugget: :goldpan: ickshovel: and :beer: or three at the end of the day
The best part about it was I bought the the two generators for peanuts and the engine for $50.00, honed the bore and new set of rings and she was purring.
Oh how the years have flown, 30 years about to roll over since we started building the camp.

condor22 said:

So, went to see my bush power mate today to get my Aux battery checked after abusing it down to under 6V. It's had the trip back from VIC and other driving around to give it a good charge and was showing "Float Mode" on the Redarc @ about 1A charging, no load.

He has a test kit that bumps 100A load for 9 seconds, so a 100AH battery should at the end of the cycle go no lower than 11.8V, (the voltage does recover as the effective battery use is about 0.25 AH) which means it still has 100AH in it and would be OK. However, it went below that to 11.4 V and his estimate is that my 100 AH is now about a 75 AH.

So, not completely stuffed, but I will need to monitor my usage and charging more often and can expect the voltages to be slightly lower than I would expect from a good battery after say 25 AH DOC.

For those with a penchant for the Math, assuming a use of 25 AH ..... A 100AH @ 75% SOC would read about 12.4 V. As mine is now effectively a 75 AH battery the same 25 AH of use is now 33% DOC and the voltage @ 66% SOC would be around 12.2 V. (At rest voltages, no load, no charge)

So saving pennies for a new battery in the future, lol

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I got one of them load testers and they are sort of OK but they don't really tell you whats going on inside the battery, Before testing it like that you need to fully charge your battery hooking a volt meter to it and let it reach about 14.7 / 14.8v for an hour or two and then let it rest for 3 or 4 hours then test it,

You should never load test a battery when it has been on a charger or been charging via the ALT, Plus your battery would not have been fully charged, To get around a this I then bought a proper battery tester that sends a pulse in to the battery and it measures every thing without putting a strain on the Battery, This is the one I got from Amazon, this one gives you all the info you need and it will test Alternators and starter motors and more. As well as give you a print out of the condition of the Battery. This thing saved me a heap of cash, I soon used up the print roll that came with it so I bought a box of 20 from an office supplies shop but the rolls are a but fat where they put a lot of paper on the roll so I have to remove about 6 meters of it and then they fit, so a little bit of waste but not much. It works and that's all that matters,

The battery was fully charged and rested before the check . It was stated at the time "the check was a guide"

He has another in workshop tester that, his words, "basically takes out the entire capacity and puts it back in, measuring it as it tests"

I have not seen it, or know the procedure, but it would have required me to disconnect everything, remove the battery and take it into the workshop. The result would have given a much more accurate test, again his words.

I didn't bother for 2 reasons, first that the quick test pretty well showed me what I already knew, that I have a reduced capacity battery. It may be 80%, it may be as low as 60%. That I know this is enough, as I can monitor it when used and if it does what I want, keep using it, if not replace it. The second reason is that it was over 40C that day and neither of us wanted to be out there in the heat doing any more than we did .

I did state in my post "and his estimate is that my 100 AH is now about a 75 AH."

What many don't know is that the el cheapo batteries sold may well not be truly what they state they are due to cheap construction. An example I can give is that a good quality 130 AH AGM should weigh between 32-33 kg minimum. I see some sold that are barely 30 kg. This means that the casing may be thinner and or the plates inside thinner and more prone to buckling when loaded up. The result is a battery that won't last as long or have the capacity stated.

There is a well known S.A. 12 V specialist that sells several levels of AGM. The cheapest 120 AH weighs 30 kg and is a hybrid Deep Cycle/CCA, the next level up is a true AGM and weighs 32.5 kg. The top of the range also 120 AH weighs 38.2 kg.

They all state 120 AH capacity, but over 8kg difference, which would you buy. (the online prices are $339, $379 and $469 respectively)

I should state - My Aux battery is a 100 AH GEL, it was the OEM van battery. My previous AUX died at 10+ years old not long after buying the van. I wanted more in the van, so bought a 130AH for it and slid the GEL to the 4x4. I don't know it's brand or quality without checking.

condor22 said:

What many don't know is that the el cheapo batteries sold may well not be truly what they state they are due to cheap construction. An example I can give is that a good quality 130 AH AGM should weigh between 32-33 kg minimum. I see some sold that are barely 30 kg. This means that the casing may be thinner and or the plates inside thinner and more prone to buckling when loaded up. The result is a battery that won't last as long or have the capacity stated.

There is a well known S.A. 12 V specialist that sells several levels of AGM. The cheapest 120 AH weighs 30 kg and is a hybrid Deep Cycle/CCA, the next level up is a true AGM and weighs 32.5 kg. The top of the range also 120 AH weighs 38.2 kg.

They all state 120 AH capacity, but over 8kg difference, which would you buy. (the online prices are $339, $379 and $469 respectively)

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Well that is a problem the world over which is what lead me to buy that tester, My new 1000cca battery was in fact a 1000mca which is 800cca, So I bought this Tester and it turns out that that battery is actually 740cca @ 115Ah and then they sent me a 1000 cca which again is 800 but at 110Ah When I tested it It was closer to 900cca, so I give em a serve and then they sent me the right one At 800cca at 115Ah that test up at close to 860cca, And that 85Ah was meant to be around 900mca/720cca turns out a 500cca, So buying batteries of equal power is a minefield no matter where you live, Lesson learned, Don't buy batteries on line or over the phone.

condor22 said:

I'll post again

https://www.prospectingaustralia.co...s/1932/1574297335_battery-state-of-charge.jpg

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and i'll call it crap again