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#1

Nightjar
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Joined: 26 September 2013
Posts: 1,052
Member
26 September 2019 11:32 pm

Keeping the 12V portable fridges cool during higher ambient temperatures while away remote camping has always been a challenge.
Received a DIY kit today and first thoughts it maybe a winner.
Assembled the kit and a temporary trial in the shed I was very surprised.
Will make up a holder to direct the cool air onto the workings of the 39L Engel and if results are positive will purchase another for the 60L.
The ambient temp today was only in the low 20°C's but with the unit powered up the resultant airflow got down to 2°C.
If all goes well, the couple of extra amps required to power unit should be offset in shorter run times.
Time will tell.

Last edited by Nightjar (26 September 2019 11:33 pm)


Happy Hunting, Nightjar.

5 users like this post: Jackthehound, Ded Driver, Ridge Runner, Rockhunter62, ctxkid

#2

Ded Driver
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From: West of the Border, WA
Joined: 27 May 2018
Posts: 1,936
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27 September 2019 12:04 am

good idea Nightjar.
with those devices they work by transferring heat from one side to the other, so one side cold, one side hot.
best to also use a small fan to draw or blow the hot air away from the hot side.


APLA member, GPX4000, modded SD2100, XTerra705, GM1000, Whites MXT Pro, Nokta Pointer, sP01 Enhancer, Garmin GPSMAP 64S, kti PLB, a map, all sorts of coils & a cupla buckets full of hope & enthusiasm

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#3

Ridge Runner
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Joined: 04 September 2014
Posts: 5,357
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27 September 2019 05:53 am

Nightjar wrote:

Keeping the 12V portable fridges cool during higher ambient temperatures while away remote camping has always been a challenge.
Received a DIY kit today and first thoughts it maybe a winner.
Assembled the kit and a temporary trial in the shed I was very surprised.
Will make up a holder to direct the cool air onto the workings of the 39L Engel and if results are positive will purchase another for the 60L.
The ambient temp today was only in the low 20°C's but with the unit powered up the resultant airflow got down to 2°C.
If all goes well, the couple of extra amps required to power unit should be offset in shorter run times.
Time will tell.

I would think that you could get away with using a very small unit because even dropping the Air Temp by 5* make a huge difference, So using one small one that could cool the Air by about 10*c would make the fridge run a lot less and if you are seeing an 18* drop then that would drop a 45* temp down to the mid 20's,

NJ, I gotta Ask although it might be a dumb question, But does your fridge struggle to stay cool in 30 to 40* Temps ??

Another thing you could try is adding one or two small computer fans to the Air vents because the only down side to the petlier systems is they drip water So It might pay to mount it on the End Vents and not the top vents, Computer fans use less than a 1/4 of an Amp or less,

good luck mate, let us know how it all works out, That's a great Idea,

J.


Dig em all,

1 user likes this post: Nightjar

#4

ctxkid
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From: Up Ship Creek
Joined: 12 April 2018
Posts: 2,146
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27 September 2019 07:32 am

photo's and linky please ?


...................................................Such is life........................................................
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#5

Nightjar
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Joined: 26 September 2013
Posts: 1,052
Member
27 September 2019 10:47 am

Ded Driver wrote:

good idea Nightjar.
with those devices they work by transferring heat from one side to the other, so one side cold, one side hot.
best to also use a small fan to draw or blow the hot air away from the hot side.

DD, The kit came with two fans.


Happy Hunting, Nightjar.

#6

Nightjar
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Joined: 26 September 2013
Posts: 1,052
Member
27 September 2019 10:56 am

Ridge Runner wrote:

NJ, I gotta Ask although it might be a dumb question, But does your fridge struggle to stay cool in 30 to 40* Temps ??

Another thing you could try is adding one or two small computer fans to the Air vents because the only down side to the petlier systems is they drip water So It might pay to mount it on the End Vents and not the top vents, Computer fans use less than a 1/4 of an Amp or less,

good luck mate, let us know how it all works out, That's a great Idea,

J.

RR, The Engel handle the summer very well, meats frozen and beers cold but obviously the higher the ambient the higher the thermostat.

Condensation is rarely a problem in our goldfields it is extremely rare to wake up to morning dew. Noticed the condensation on the unit yesterday but what I have in mind has it under control. (Going to collect it in my water bottle. playful )

The computer fans are all but useless they blow hot air and do very little to help fridge.


Happy Hunting, Nightjar.

1 user likes this post: Ridge Runner

#7

Nightjar
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Joined: 26 September 2013
Posts: 1,052
Member
27 September 2019 10:59 am

ctxkid wrote:

photo's and linky please ?

ctx,
Heaps of youtube explanations far better than I can explain.
When I get my little set up put together will post a pic or two. big_smile


Happy Hunting, Nightjar.

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#8

Wishfull
Member
From: Yorke Peninsla S.A., SA
Joined: 27 April 2016
Posts: 2,970
Member
27 September 2019 04:18 pm

Nightjar wrote:

Keeping the 12V portable fridges cool during higher ambient temperatures while away remote camping has always been a challenge.
Received a DIY kit today and first thoughts it maybe a winner.
Assembled the kit and a temporary trial in the shed I was very surprised.
Will make up a holder to direct the cool air onto the workings of the 39L Engel and if results are positive will purchase another for the 60L.
The ambient temp today was only in the low 20°C's but with the unit powered up the resultant airflow got down to 2°C.
If all goes well, the couple of extra amps required to power unit should be offset in shorter run times.
Time will tell.

Can you put some pictures up and maybe a link please ?


1996 Garret Scorpion gold stinger, Minelab SDC2300, Equanox 800, Detecnix wader Li pinpointer, home made pick, 750 mm Walco pick, understanding wife, most of the time.

#9

ctxkid
Member
From: Up Ship Creek
Joined: 12 April 2018
Posts: 2,146
Member
27 September 2019 04:56 pm

mega cool idea, but power hungry, doesn't matter power

but this looks awesome cool cool

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Thermoelect … 3778482559

let ya mind run free on the cheap perfect

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/tec1-12706- … 2295832951

one of these is on it's way to me now , liquid cooler cool

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DIY-kits-Th … 3801595017

im hooked cool


...................................................Such is life........................................................
Oldest Copper coin 1799 left seated half penny, Oldest Silver 1834 Shilling

#10

Nightjar
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Joined: 26 September 2013
Posts: 1,052
Member
27 September 2019 07:44 pm

Ctx, Can't fathom how your third item 3801595017 can be a cooler the fans are only blowing ambient air?
The tec1-12706 heatsink thermoelectric plate isn't included. Maybe only a drop of a °C or two from surrounding ambient temperature?

Here are a few early pics before I build the finished product.

1569573738_cooling.jpg

1569573767_cooling2.jpg

1569573824_cooling3.jpg


Happy Hunting, Nightjar.

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#11

Nightjar
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Joined: 26 September 2013
Posts: 1,052
Member
27 September 2019 07:54 pm

Wishfull wrote:

Can you put some pictures up and maybe a link please ?

Mate, This is the one I bought from Banggood not eBay. Simple to assemble, just have to remember the blank side of the TEC1-12706 is the "hot side" and don't forget to apply supplied thermo paste.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cooling-Sys … 0005.m1851

Valuable info here.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ … 2B+fan+kit

Last edited by Nightjar (27 September 2019 08:02 pm)


Happy Hunting, Nightjar.

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#12

Ridge Runner
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Joined: 04 September 2014
Posts: 5,357
Member
01 October 2019 10:28 am

NJ it will be interesting to see how much more power this set up uses, Although I was impressed with how fast that little 35L Snomaster works it is a power hungry SOB, but then it seemed to settle down after a few days and eventually started to use less power,

They are designed to work in seriously hot environments and have very high temp cut off settings and they are second to none when it comes to cooling, but I think it would need a real good power supply to keep it happy,

this idea of yours might add a couple of amps to you normal power draw but I think it might add a few more years to your fridges service life,

Are you fitting it to the big Engel first or the small one ?,

J.


Dig em all,

#13

Nightjar
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Joined: 26 September 2013
Posts: 1,052
Member
01 October 2019 11:15 am

Good morning RR,
I'm going to test it with the 39L first, this old girl is our main freezer (-10/-13 °C) when we head bush, so she runs often and being 17yo draws more power.
Will compare running times and current draw with and with out.
Will wire the Peltier into the Engel running times.
I see they recommend leaving the "hot fan" running for a short period of time after shutdown. Maybe Jaycar may have a bit of electronics to allow this or you may know of something. Maybe an overkill?

Cheers


Happy Hunting, Nightjar.

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#14

Ridge Runner
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Joined: 04 September 2014
Posts: 5,357
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01 October 2019 11:29 am

Nightjar wrote:

Good morning RR,
I'm going to test it with the 39L first, this old girl is our main freezer (-10/-13 °C) when we head bush, so she runs often and being 17yo draws more power.
Will compare running times and current draw with and with out.
Will wire the Peltier into the Engel running times.
I see they recommend leaving the "hot fan" running for a short period of time after shutdown. Maybe Jaycar may have a bit of electronics to allow this or you may know of something. Maybe an overkill?

Cheers

Just an Idea, But what about wiring it in to the Thermostat wires on the fridge so it powers up when the fridge does and shuts off when the fridge is doing it's off cycle, I know it's not the same but it would keep the power draw to a minimum ??.

J.


Dig em all,

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#15

ctxkid
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From: Up Ship Creek
Joined: 12 April 2018
Posts: 2,146
Member
01 October 2019 12:14 pm

Grab a medium size capacitor and wire it across the fan , play around with size as to get a delay time on the fan, stick a power diode before it so as it doesn't feed the thermoelectric plate as well......just a thought


...................................................Such is life........................................................
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1 user likes this post: Nightjar

#16

Nightjar
Member
Joined: 26 September 2013
Posts: 1,052
Member
01 October 2019 07:27 pm

Ridge Runner wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

Will wire the Peltier into the Engel running times.
I see they recommend leaving the "hot fan" running for a short period of time after shutdown. Maybe Jaycar may have a bit of electronics to allow this or you may know of something. Maybe an overkill?

Cheers

Just an Idea, But what about wiring it in to the Thermostat wires on the fridge so it powers up when the fridge does and shuts off when the fridge is doing it's off cycle, I know it's not the same but it would keep the power draw to a minimum ??.

J.

RR, I wasn't very clear with my post (Will wire the Peltier into the Engel running times.) Meaning yes, will wire it into the Thermostat so it starts and stops with fridge.


Happy Hunting, Nightjar.

#17

Nightjar
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Joined: 26 September 2013
Posts: 1,052
Member
01 October 2019 07:32 pm

ctxkid wrote:

Grab a medium size capacitor and wire it across the fan , play around with size as to get a delay time on the fan, stick a power diode before it so as it doesn't feed the thermoelectric plate as well......just a thought

Feel sure there is a way if required. Their mention of delaying the shutdown of the "hot" fan is referring to when the Peltier is used as a stand alone cooler mounted in the side of an eg: icebox.
Hope to experiment in the coming week.


Happy Hunting, Nightjar.

1 user likes this post: ctxkid

#18

ctxkid
Member
From: Up Ship Creek
Joined: 12 April 2018
Posts: 2,146
Member
01 October 2019 07:38 pm

Nightjar wrote:
Ridge Runner wrote:
Nightjar wrote:

Will wire the Peltier into the Engel running times.
I see they recommend leaving the "hot fan" running for a short period of time after shutdown. Maybe Jaycar may have a bit of electronics to allow this or you may know of something. Maybe an overkill?

Cheers

Just an Idea, But what about wiring it in to the Thermostat wires on the fridge so it powers up when the fridge does and shuts off when the fridge is doing it's off cycle, I know it's not the same but it would keep the power draw to a minimum ??.

J.

RR, I wasn't very clear with my post (Will wire the Peltier into the Engel running times.) Meaning yes, will wire it into the Thermostat so it starts and stops with fridge.

i'm thinking idea it might not reach maximum potential temp if it is being switched ,i am looking forward to see your results thumbsup


...................................................Such is life........................................................
Oldest Copper coin 1799 left seated half penny, Oldest Silver 1834 Shilling

#19

Nightjar
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Joined: 26 September 2013
Posts: 1,052
Member
02 October 2019 08:10 pm

Look like moving on to plan "B".
Using a multi meter I tried to find a 12V tapping point after the thermostat to fit the Peltier. There wasn't one with easy access and was feeling a little nervous poking around
thinking I may pop something. Ran the fridge and it cycled every 2 1/2 minutes for two minutes. Temporarily ran the Peltier pumping the cool air into the engine room, cycle time stretched out to 4 minutes, run time still two minutes.
The old Engels have two separate plugs 12V & 240V and there are a couple of common wires so only one plug can be connected at any one time. As you would be aware Engel brought out later models with two plugs and auto changeover from 240V to 12V. (Another story another day, I blabbed to an Engel engineer about my auto changeover. Maybe a millionaire now if Id patented it.?
This actually caused many electronic failures (mostly blown capacitors) when owners had their fridge hooked up to both their Genny and 12V. They could start their Genny and walk away, when it run out of petrol the 12V kicked in. Problem is when and engine is running out of petrol it surges, this caused the occasional failures.

Have ordered a couple of these from eBay and will wire Peltier to an independent 12V supply. The Peltier will fit neatly inside Engel case, cool end facing up and the hot end blowing out through bottom;

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/AU-2pcs-W12 … 2749.l2649


Happy Hunting, Nightjar.

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#20

Ded Driver
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From: West of the Border, WA
Joined: 27 May 2018
Posts: 1,936
Member
02 October 2019 08:27 pm

Nightjar, have a read here:
http://www.navara.asia/showthread.php?t=34953 (Engel conversion to digital thermostat)
It may help you identify where to tap 12V to run your Peltier when the compressor switches on
DED


APLA member, GPX4000, modded SD2100, XTerra705, GM1000, Whites MXT Pro, Nokta Pointer, sP01 Enhancer, Garmin GPSMAP 64S, kti PLB, a map, all sorts of coils & a cupla buckets full of hope & enthusiasm

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#21

Nightjar
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Joined: 26 September 2013
Posts: 1,052
Member
02 October 2019 11:44 pm

Thanks DD,
That's a much newer Engel, the old versions like mine do not have the exposed connections like that one. Have decided not to strip it down to get into the workings. Currently use a Engel wireless thermo, sender in fridge and I can monitor in the cab while travelling
Our second fridge is the 60L which already has the digital thermo which is actually a PIA because you need to climb onto back of ute to read it.
On long bush stays when we clean out the frozen meat in the 39L it is shut down and I then swap the sender into the 60L.
Have a second wireless sender in caravan fridge and can also monitor that one from cab while travelling.


Happy Hunting, Nightjar.

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#22

ctxkid
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From: Up Ship Creek
Joined: 12 April 2018
Posts: 2,146
Member
09 October 2019 06:37 pm

mine arrived today , gotta love postage from china sad

hastily setup wink little fan shate itself in minutes sad but it does cool water cool

i'll get a new fan in the morning and put a few of my twists on it thumbsup it has potential

1570606716_img_0164.jpg

still worx without the fan smile

Last edited by ctxkid (09 October 2019 06:40 pm)


...................................................Such is life........................................................
Oldest Copper coin 1799 left seated half penny, Oldest Silver 1834 Shilling

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#23

Nightjar
Member
Joined: 26 September 2013
Posts: 1,052
Member
09 October 2019 08:09 pm

CTX, Are you recycling the water to cool it for drinking?
My project is on hold for the moment Spring has sprung and spending all my free time in garden.


Happy Hunting, Nightjar.

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#24

ctxkid
Member
From: Up Ship Creek
Joined: 12 April 2018
Posts: 2,146
Member
10 October 2019 07:02 am

Nightjar wrote:

CTX, Are you recycling the water to cool it for drinking?.

yes it will be drinking water


...................................................Such is life........................................................
Oldest Copper coin 1799 left seated half penny, Oldest Silver 1834 Shilling

1 user likes this post: pinfire opals

#25

ctxkid
Member
From: Up Ship Creek
Joined: 12 April 2018
Posts: 2,146
Member
10 October 2019 12:26 pm

New fan and running nice now, bit power hungry though 1570670704_c4ab1e09-7a7a-4452-a476-2d378a8d6a83.jpg
Might have to get a less greedy pump


...................................................Such is life........................................................
Oldest Copper coin 1799 left seated half penny, Oldest Silver 1834 Shilling


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