Stone fossil almost human like JAW?

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Amongst dozens of fossils recently found in the surrounding of Mt Dandenong, one of Victorias ancient dormant volcanos seems to have well preserved stone fossils mostly small ( baby ) sea creatures including a croc and frog on a recent post and now I have cleaned up a fossil that resembles a small possible Jaw with teeth and a tongue ( pointing downward)
I have edited the image using a basic photo editing app to highlight its features using filters on an iPhone XR but no false colours used, also a normal image without editing at all.
Any clues/help on this?
1567171799_52be64f6-ff0e-442b-b394-011cb3bd725a.jpg

1567171799_2331aff0-c82b-4d37-ae82-5bdb99ffa81b.jpg
 
I am a bit doubtful about these, and particularly about this one. Take them to Melbourne museum, people like Tom Rich - they are great and will help.

It is very unusual to preserve soft parts of animals (eg a tongue).
 
goldierocks said:
I am a bit doubtful about these, and particularly about this one. Take them to Melbourne museum, people like Tom Rich - they are great and will help.

It is very unusual to preserve soft parts of animals (eg a tongue).

Yes I have heard of that the soft tissue is rare!
I will take your advice, thanks for the feedback
cheers
 
I think you might have missed basic geology at school. Ancient dormant volcanoes do not produce fossils. You need deposition not volcanism
 
Gimp said:
I think you might have missed basic geology at school. Ancient dormant volcanoes do not produce fossils. You need deposition not volcanism
Gimp, it is not quite that simple. The volcanoes do not PRODUCE fossils but volcanic activity can preserve fossils - so volcanic rocks and fossils are closely related. Fluid lavas are only one type of volcanic rock. Tuff (the fine volcanic silica "ash" blown into the air by volcanoes) falls on animals and plants and buries them - think of the human fossils at Pompei and Herculaneum. Mud flows, caused by the release of water and liquification of volcanic products like tuff sweep down mountainsides and bury everything in their path, a common problem in places like Indonesia and the Philippines - this also occurred at Mt St Helens. The volcanic rocks of the Dandenong Ranges are mostly not lavas but are welded tuffs (tiny shards of volcanic glass that was still hot and plastic when it settled out of the air, so the shards welded together as they accumulated, forming a hard rock. Streams flow in the intervals between each volcanic eruption, depositing sand, gravel and clay with dead animals and plants - thin layers of the resulting sandstone, conglomerate and shale then occur between thicker layers of welded tuff and lavas, as in the Dandenongs and nearby volcanic complexes. And fossils ARE associated with them - fossil fish and plants are the most common (e.g. Briagolong, Mansfield, where I used to collect them
1567292997_vic_fish_fossils.jpg
).

However I am a but sceptical about the interpretation of these examples as fossils, but one needs to see more than just photos - hence my advice to take them to Melbourne Museum. I have mates who specialise in this (mainly dinosaurs and megafauna). IF they are fossils, they probably relate to post-volcanic streams and lakes that postdate the volcanics though, the volcanics there are Late Devonian and these species would probably be younger (but I am no expert).

1567293039_vic_fish_fossils.jpg
 
You definitely know your stuff Goldierocks. I used to live up in the Dandenongs many years ago in a house I built with my ex-wife in Olinda.
After we divorced, the property was put on the market and I started looking around for something smaller to live in around the same area.
I came across this cute little two bedroom cottage, hanging off the steep side of the mountain in Kalorama, with over 180 degree views from Port Phillip bay, through the city and all the way around to the distant Warbuton ranges.

For those of you that aren't familiar with the Dandenongs, Kalorama is adjacent to the tip of Mt Dandenong on it's steep NW slope.
I had the deposit on it and was just waiting for the conveyancer to do her bit, when she got back to me with a hair raising report.

The block had the highest classification for land slip, that made it impossible to ever extend in any direction (which was my intention). It was built in the 1920's long before anybody cared about planning codes and land slip classifications.

She also came across a report from the late 1800's which showed that there was an exceptionally high rainfall one year where it rained full-on for days and days straight without letting up. One day, the whole side of the mountain just slipped away, taking everything with it including the large gum trees. On the way down it buried a house, where fortunately at the time nobody was home. From memory, other than native wildlife the only stock loss was a horse that happened to be in its path.

That steep slope you see around that area is the side of the extinct volcano, made up of it's loosely compacted ash. I suspect many such fossils have been made this way over the millenia, as well as by the volcanic ash while the volcano is still active.

As a Footnote- The vendors lawyers said I couldn't get out of a signed contract disputing a section 32, but i put it back on the Real Estate Agents selling the property for breaching the Trade Practices act of the time. I had their printed brochure for the house, where they had clearly stated that you could extend anyway you wanted, no STCA mentioned. The agent said the vendor never told them, the vendor said his lawyers didn't know, I said they could all get stuffed as I wasn't going to settle.
This Mexican stand-off eventually ended with all in agreement that I wasn't going to buy it. Bottom line- There are still lot's of dead critters getting fossilized in the Dandenongs :awful:
 
i.e. "near where the township of Olinda is today, a series of volcanic eruptions pushed up through the earth's crust during the Late Devonian period. At Olinda, there were four distinct lava flows that went in four different directions. The eruptions deposited thick sheets of ignimbrites (the word 'ignimbrites' comes from a Latin mash-up for 'fiery rock dust cloud') that hardened and formed the mountain range".
1567300975_shards.jpg

This is what the volcanic rocks of the Dandenongs often look like under the microscope. You can see the angular pieces of glass that settled out of the air as a dust cloud. The glass was still hot and sticky when it landed, so the fragments tended to fuse together. The resuling "ignimbrite" is a hard rock now, that many people would confuse with a rock formed from molten lava (unless they had a microscope).

Here are some shots from the Mt Pinatubo eruption of 1991 showing the ash cloud that settled to form ignimbrite and tuff (you can see that this cloud, 150 km across) would have formed most of the volcanic rocks, lavas only being minor and present close to the eruption point. The second photo shows a mud flow that roared down a valley as water was released.

https://www.livescience.com/14476-photos-mount-pinatubo-largest-volcanic-eruption.html

1567301462_mt_pinatubo_1.jpg

1567301462_mt_pinatubo_2.jpg
 
Gimp said:
Seeking amateur opinions on here is only falsely stroking your incorrect ideas
I think a lot of input here are only guessing so yes need someone with knowledge
 
Hi Fossilon. The responses to your posts are based on incomplete evidence so they can be considered opinion and are, in part, probably only meant to be that. That does not mean you are being given amateur opinions.
Its great that youre sharing your finds and Im looking forward to learning more.
 
Martyz said:
Hi Fossilon. The responses to your posts are based on incomplete evidence so they can be considered opinion and are, in part, probably only meant to be that. That does not mean you are being given amateur opinions.
Its great that youre sharing your finds and Im looking forward to learning more.
Yep - get them into the museum as I am sure there are many here that would like a definitive answer from experts.
 
Ded Driver said:
Australia doesn't have any actual 'Dormant Volcanos'.
All volcanos in Au are extinct.
Not so (strictly). Australia has active volcanoes on Heard and McDonald Islands. Aborigines witnessed active volcanoes in South Australia and Victoria only a few thousand years ago, and that volcanism is not over. We still have molten magma in magma chambers under Bass Strait, and it is likely that they will erupt some time in the future. "Davies said the plume is now placed under the Bass Strait, which lies between Victoria and Tasmania". "Geologists suspect an earthquake that originated 50 kilometres from King Island in February 2002 signalled the reawakening of the hot spot - this is known as the East Australian Hotspot"

1567551478_volcanic_risk_vic.jpg


1567551509_bass_strait_hotspot.jpg


https://www.volcanodiscovery.com/heard.html

https://www.volcanodiscovery.com/mcdonald-islands.html

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...inental-volcano-chain-discovered-in-australia

https://www.standard.net.au/story/3235529/victorian-volcano-inevitable/

https://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/national/queensland/volcano-eruption-overdue-20090921-fwxm.html

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/there-s-a-volcanic-system-slumbering-beneath-melbourne
 
goldierocks said:
Gimp said:
I think you might have missed basic geology at school. Ancient dormant volcanoes do not produce fossils. You need deposition not volcanism
Gimp, it is not quite that simple. The volcanoes do not PRODUCE fossils but volcanic activity can preserve fossils - so volcanic rocks and fossils are closely related. Fluid lavas are only one type of volcanic rock. Tuff (the fine volcanic silica "ash" blown into the air by volcanoes) falls on animals and plants and buries them - think of the human fossils at Pompei and Herculaneum. Mud flows, caused by the release of water and liquification of volcanic products like tuff sweep down mountainsides and bury everything in their path, a common problem in places like Indonesia and the Philippines - this also occurred at Mt St Helens. The volcanic rocks of the Dandenong Ranges are mostly not lavas but are welded tuffs (tiny shards of volcanic glass that was still hot and plastic when it settled out of the air, so the shards welded together as they accumulated, forming a hard rock. Streams flow in the intervals between each volcanic eruption, depositing sand, gravel and clay with dead animals and plants - thin layers of the resulting sandstone, conglomerate and shale then occur between thicker layers of welded tuff and lavas, as in the Dandenongs and nearby volcanic complexes. And fossils ARE associated with them - fossil fish and plants are the most common (e.g. Briagolong, Mansfield, where I used to collect themhttps://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/4386/1567292997_vic_fish_fossils.jpg).

However I am a but sceptical about the interpretation of these examples as fossils, but one needs to see more than just photos - hence my advice to take them to Melbourne Museum. I have mates who specialise in this (mainly dinosaurs and megafauna). IF they are fossils, they probably relate to post-volcanic streams and lakes that postdate the volcanics though, the volcanics there are Late Devonian and these species would probably be younger (but I am no expert).

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/4386/1567293039_vic_fish_fossils.jpg
All true but no connection with ops finds. Devion fishes are a long way geologically from frogs, crocodiles and even further from hominids.
 
yes Goldierocks I know about the volcanoes on Heard & McDonald Islands. I was being more specific to the mainland. New Zealand's active volcanoes are also geographically close.
My understanding of a dormant volcano is one which has a hot magma chamber underneath it, potentially active & able to erupt.
This bit from Volcano Discovery <A dormant volcano is an active volcano that is not erupting, but supposed to erupt again. An extinct volcano has not had an eruption for at least 10,000 years and is not expected to erupt again in a comparable time scale of the future.>
But I stand corrected if what you say about volcanoes in South Australia and Victoria only a few thousand years ago is correct. I haven't heard of that. Has this been documented anywhere, ie with sample analysis by a research body/volcanologist group? I would be interested in reading more about it.
It does sound to me tho' that if the magma plume lies deep beneath Bass Strait, then the volcanoes back on the mainland are probably extinct. Any new eruptions would most likely occur in the Strait.
Volcanoes do intrigue me
 
There's a dormant volcano sleeping under Melbourne - and it could erupt at any moment:
https://www.sbs.com.au/news/there-s-a-volcanic-system-slumbering-beneath-melbourne

Volcanoes of Australia:
http://www.volcanolive.com/australia.html

Volcanic Victoria:
https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/science-environment/2017/05/volcanic-victoria/
"the whole province is volcanically active and the new one could literally be anywhere, but the most likely place will be between Ballarat and Geelong.
 
I never trust what I read in the media. They have a habit of adding fertiliser ( :poop: ) to make it seem bigger, scarier & about to happen to everyone.
So as Goldierocks pointed out, there is a hot spot under the Bass Strait, but the likelihood of it rising to the surface & erupting tonight, or tomorrow, or any time very soon, is very unlikely.
.
But .... lets just hope Melbourne doesn't look Pompei next week :skull: :playful:
 
Ded Driver said:
I never trust what I read in the media. They have a habit of adding fertiliser ( :poop: ) to make it seem bigger, scarier & about to happen to everyone.
So as Goldierocks pointed out, there is a hot spot under the Bass Strait, but the likelihood of it rising to the surface & erupting tonight, or tomorrow, or any time very soon, is very unlikely.
.
But .... lets just hope Melbourne doesn't look Pompei next week :skull: :playful:
Yes, I would not hold your breathe.....
 
goldierocks said:
Ded Driver said:
I never trust what I read in the media. They have a habit of adding fertiliser ( :poop: ) to make it seem bigger, scarier & about to happen to everyone.
So as Goldierocks pointed out, there is a hot spot under the Bass Strait, but the likelihood of it rising to the surface & erupting tonight, or tomorrow, or any time very soon, is very unlikely.
.
But .... lets just hope Melbourne doesn't look Pompei next week :skull: :playful:
Yes, I would not hold your breathe.....

Earth has evolved over millions of years so you can never say never ( or unlikely)
But yes I know where your coming from
 
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