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#51

SunriseBoy
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Guest
07 September 2015 08:58 am

All the best Reg. That's a hard row to hoe.

#52

Picker
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From: Mornington, Vic
Joined: 28 April 2015
Posts: 64
Member
07 September 2015 09:52 am

Hey guys wanted to report back, was out yesterday and FYI it was a very bad EMI day with storms approaching. Nevertheless I was able to keep the delay in 10 and by reducing gain and threshold, combined with the occaisional frequency tweak, she purred along. No gold but just to show what I got, and 1 hole to show the depth on a piece of rusty iron with the sadie coil (tdi oz) was about a foot. Cheers

1441579901_11947604_1664975797049662_7737547761844446816_n.jpg
1441579918_11953221_1664803333733575_1135481563772179539_n.jpg

4 users like this post: WalnLiz, grubstake, Ridge Runner, rockerfella

#53

SunriseBoy
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Guest
07 September 2015 10:28 am

This business about the hiccup doesn't appear to occur on my machine. Have had it out a couple of times and it doesn't hiccup on any targets. So I hope I'm in the clear.

#54

Reg
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Joined: 14 August 2014
Posts: 120
Member
07 September 2015 11:37 am

Here is a little bit of wisdom when using any TDI series detector. If you are beach hunting and you turn the GB off, the only tones that will be generated are high tones. So, to heart any signal, you need to be in low conductor or All mode. If you select High conductor, you will hear a steady threshold hum only.

On the standard SPP, this is a non issue but add the conductivity switch and one can select a mode that will not generate a signal.

I mentioned this because a TDI user asked the question on a different forum of what mode a guy was using on the beach when hunting with the GB off.

Reg

1 user likes this post: Picker

#55

Roscoe
Member
From: , QLD
Joined: 27 October 2013
Posts: 774
Member
07 September 2015 12:37 pm

Sorry to hear about your best mate Reg. and your right they become part of your family. Reg. you were right about those mono coils needing to be lifted up over hot ground. Since doing this a noticed the machine runs better, thanks.

Picker looks like he has that TDI dialed in nicely with holes like that. smile

1 user likes this post: Picker

#56

Reg
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Joined: 14 August 2014
Posts: 120
Member
09 September 2015 01:19 am

Here is another bit of wisdom to add to the book of knowledge when using the TDI or SL series. Know the gold in the area where you are hunting and pick the mode that will work best.

By knowing the gold, I mean, know the most common size and then know the purity of the gold when possible. Why? Simple, the purity along with the surface characteristics will determine the tone you will hear and at what size the tone may change.

Pure gold is highly conductive and will act dramatically different than that which has a lot of silver or copper mixed in it. Nearly pure gold will be a low conductor or a high tone even up to close to a 1/4 oz and then change to a low tone, but less pure gold may remain a high tone (low conductor) even up to and into the multi-oz range. So, if you are hunting a known area where most of the gold is small or less pure, it just might pay to operate in the low conductor mode and then use some of the tricks to eliminate "hot pocket ground problems".

In areas where basalt is a big problem, then use that same mode used to eliminate hot pockets and GB to the basalt. Watch lukeozdigger's videos if you are uncertain of what I mean. With a few tricks like this, hunting such troublesome areas can actually be fun. In fact, here is one video made while we were resolving the hiccup problem that displays the hiccup and also how one can eliminate "hot pocket" signals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZtKaP9p1bCs

Reg

2 users like this post: Ridge Runner, ProspectorPete

#57

mbasko
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From: Central West NSW
Joined: 27 January 2015
Posts: 4,046
Member
09 September 2015 10:17 am

Reg wrote:

In areas where basalt is a big problem, then use that same mode used to eliminate hot pockets and GB to the basalt. Watch lukeozdigger's videos if you are uncertain of what I mean. With a few tricks like this, hunting such troublesome areas can actually be fun. In fact, here is one video made while we were resolving the hiccup problem that displays the hiccup and also how one can eliminate "hot pocket" signals.

Reg in Lukes vids, which show the hiccup fix well & the elimination of hot pockets, he frequently mentions that his machines are modded - Reg's "gold mod" & "noise reduction mod" he calls them. He even says in one that a stock TDI without the mods would not pick up his small test piece.
My question is, as there seems to be confusion as to what Whites have done on their end, are these mods - gold mod & noise reduction mod - now carried out to all of the TDI series by Whites on new machines as part of the "hiccup" fix or do you need to have your machine modded as an after thought? Whites should be taking these improvements on board if they haven't already.
Also just a quick one with basalt. There are a few problematic areas around my local fields with scattered basalt. Some spots aren't a big issue & its usually only a few chook egg sized bits that signal. Problem is that they signal exactly like the small gold in the area which I have persisted to find there. My thinking is that if I balance them out I'll balance the gold out also especially using low/high conductor switch?
There are other basaltic areas here that I have walked away from as you get these same sweet gold signals on near every sweep of the coil such is the intensity/spread of the high iron content basalt. A machine to ignore them but still hit on the gold would be great.


Everything we use comes from mining or farming.

#58

Reg
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Joined: 14 August 2014
Posts: 120
Member
09 September 2015 10:45 am

You are mixing apples and prunes. In the video I mentioned, the hot pocket was cancelled using the GB control and when done, he could still detect small gold.

Now, Much of the basalt will ground balance out at the same setting as a hotpocket, but some will need a little more GB. That little more is no where near the GB setting needed to cancel small gold, so no you shouldn't lose gold.

The only way to know for sure is to take what I mentioned and try it yourself. I checked, and trying what I said is legal. Simply find a piece of basalt and then place that basalt in an area and a small gold nugget nearby. GB to the basalt and then try to to detect the small gold. I think you will find you can do both.

Now, as for Luke's videos, well like peaches and prunes, he has videos displaying the noise reduction mod added to the TDI and a small gold mod. What was found out later was the small gold mod would enhance certain small hotrocks, making them a problem. So I am not sure he is using that small gold mod now. The mods done to the TDI are not the same needed to eliminate the problem with the SPP.

As for the peaches and prunes, well the mods done to the TDI and those done to the SPP are not the same even though they are mods. As for White's adding any changes to the TDI, well, I don't know or sure, but I am guessing they haven't done anything to the TDI. I can't even say for certain they are modifying the SL like what is done for the SPP.

Remember, I don't communicate with Whites any more.

Reg

Last edited by Reg (09 September 2015 10:47 am)

1 user likes this post: mbasko

#59

mbasko
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From: Central West NSW
Joined: 27 January 2015
Posts: 4,046
Member
09 September 2015 11:33 am

Thanks Reg.


Everything we use comes from mining or farming.

#60

Roscoe
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From: , QLD
Joined: 27 October 2013
Posts: 774
Member
09 September 2015 02:22 pm

Mbasko, Funny thing is that basalt gives a nice sweet signal on a PI machine, but, the same piece will give a Boo sound on my VLF machine which makes it a dead give away as a negetive hot rock and not a good target. I could if you like set my SPP with GB off set and in low conductor mode as Reg. mentioned and test if i can eliminate the basalt signal and still pick up small gold. I do live on 10 acres of rich red basalt soil and its full of iron pisolite and small chunks of basalt rocks in places. I don't have gold on my property, so will have to plant a piece to test. smile

2 users like this post: Ridge Runner, mbasko

#61

Ridge Runner
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Joined: 04 September 2014
Posts: 5,469
Member
09 September 2015 03:22 pm

Matt, here is Digger Bobs Video where Actually Ground Balances on a piece of Basalt and he raises the delay to 12 then 13 and makes it vanish while still being able to see the Gold

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7rTA2CH_x8Y

Last edited by Ridge Runner (09 September 2015 04:19 pm)


Dig em all,

1 user likes this post: mbasko

#62

mbasko
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From: Central West NSW
Joined: 27 January 2015
Posts: 4,046
Member
09 September 2015 05:04 pm

Roscoe wrote:

Mbasko, Funny thing is that basalt gives a nice sweet signal on a PI machine, but, the same piece will give a Boo sound on my VLF machine which makes it a dead give away as a negetive hot rock and not a good target. I could if you like set my SPP with GB off set and in low conductor mode as Reg. mentioned and test if i can eliminate the basalt signal and still pick up small gold. I do live on 10 acres of rich red basalt soil and its full of iron pisolite and small chunks of basalt rocks in places. I don't have gold on my property, so will have to plant a piece to test. smile

That'd be good if you want to test it out?
My GMT was the same - it was a real boing sound & no mistake it was basalt. The only problem was the GMT would signal on nearly every single bit of basalt even in areas that the PI's tend to balance all but the worst or highest iron content bits - in these spots I can deal with the odd "false gold" signal with a PI.
There are 2 places that I have been to that even the PI's just signal on the basalt on every swing - they're obviously very high iron content areas - I can't deal with these areas or yet anyway lol There a few other areas around here the same that other members have mentioned that I haven't been to so it's a reasonably well known or encountered issue.


Everything we use comes from mining or farming.

1 user likes this post: Ridge Runner

#63

Reg
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Joined: 14 August 2014
Posts: 120
Member
09 September 2015 05:04 pm

Digger Bob mentions a couple of things. First, he mentions the bounce back which can happen in really bad ground. Well, this happens only in a couple of areas and his back yard is one of those areas. Also, I modified a SPP and sent it to him at the request of Jimmy Sierra. Digger was amazed on how much smoother the detector ground balanced plus the "bounce back" was gone. This was done after this video was made.

Digger was so impressed that even he jumped on the bandwagon to add the mods to the SL and SPP. His enthusiasm helped convince the new White's management to actually try the mods. Once they did, they were convinced the mods were the way to go.

Digger also uses the delay to eliminate basalt. Well, the SPP has no delay capability and that is why I mentioned using the GB instead. Both will work fine.

I suspect that people who have used PI's with auto ground balance that have noticed the gold signals can be lost by using the auto GB. Well, the SPP doesn't have the auto GB and won't adjust out gold.

Reg

2 users like this post: Ridge Runner, ProspectorPete

#64

Ridge Runner
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Joined: 04 September 2014
Posts: 5,469
Member
09 September 2015 06:00 pm

Reg wrote:

Digger Bob mentions a couple of things. First, he mentions the bounce back which can happen in really bad ground. Well, this happens only in a couple of areas and his back yard is one of those areas. Also, I modified a SPP and sent it to him at the request of Jimmy Sierra. Digger was amazed on how much smoother the detector ground balanced plus the "bounce back" was gone. This was done after this video was made.

Digger was so impressed that even he jumped on the bandwagon to add the mods to the SL and SPP. His enthusiasm helped convince the new White's management to actually try the mods. Once they did, they were convinced the mods were the way to go.

Digger also uses the delay to eliminate basalt. Well, the SPP has no delay capability and that is why I mentioned using the GB instead. Both will work fine.

I suspect that people who have used PI's with auto ground balance that have noticed the gold signals can be lost by using the auto GB. Well, the SPP doesn't have the auto GB and won't adjust out gold.

Reg

I do like Auto tracking machines but I wish some of my machines had manual GB, In this situation I can really appreciate the ALL manual Controls, Too many false signals takes your mind off the job in hand and at leased this way A Person can get around such problems,

john


Dig em all,

1 user likes this post: ProspectorPete

#65

Roscoe
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From: , QLD
Joined: 27 October 2013
Posts: 774
Member
09 September 2015 06:02 pm

No problems will test on weekend and see how it goes. I have done it to dish out certain coins on the SPP using the GB control, so i am confident it will do it with the basalt pieces. But, i want to see it done on small gold though, so i will get back to you.

Do you still have the GMT, mbasko?

#66

Roscoe
Member
From: , QLD
Joined: 27 October 2013
Posts: 774
Member
09 September 2015 06:09 pm

The SPP does have a slight auto tracking in a way. I don't know what it is, but the Auto tune system on these units acts like Auto tracking. The auto tune seems to soak up minor ground balance fluctuations and smooths out the machine. The Auto tune on these machines acts differently to other PI's i have operated, this is most evident the way the SPP runs with no GB on the beach. Maybe Reg. can give me a better understanding of whats going on in the electronics of the SPP and TDI that allows them to do this so well.

#67

KarlS
Member
From: Blacktown, NSW
Joined: 14 February 2014
Posts: 678
Member
09 September 2015 08:41 pm

Roscoe wrote:

Mbasko, Funny thing is that basalt gives a nice sweet signal on a PI machine, but, the same piece will give a Boo sound on my VLF machine which makes it a dead give away as a negetive hot rock and not a good target. I could if you like set my SPP with GB off set and in low conductor mode as Reg. mentioned and test if i can eliminate the basalt signal and still pick up small gold. I do live on 10 acres of rich red basalt soil and its full of iron pisolite and small chunks of basalt rocks in places. I don't have gold on my property, so will have to plant a piece to test. smile

Although I haven't tried it on the basalt and gold myself, it should work. I do similar ground balancing out unwanted signals when coin shooting. I normally use X Terra 705 for parks detecting, but now and then I will come across a patch littered with hundreds of beer bottle tops. The VLF is total useless in that situation. So I bring SPP along, ground balance beer tops out and cherry pick goldies. Mind you it will still sound on large metal objects, but that is not much of the problem. If GB very carefully it will still detect 50c and 20c , on reduced depth. I prefer to use small DD coil for this. My SPP is one of the first ones that has been modified by me when testing hiccup mods. I also added conductivity switch to it.
I think that that by carefully adjusting the GB and the Gain you can eliminate almost any single undesirable signal and still hear signal from the metal you are looking for. Although it may be at reduced depth.
Karl


White's SPP, XTERRA 705, old Tandy detector

3 users like this post: mbasko, dazza513, ProspectorPete

#68

mbasko
Member
From: Central West NSW
Joined: 27 January 2015
Posts: 4,046
Member
09 September 2015 10:29 pm

Roscoe wrote:

No problems will test on weekend and see how it goes. I have done it to dish out certain coins on the SPP using the GB control, so i am confident it will do it with the basalt pieces. But, i want to see it done on small gold though, so i will get back to you.

Do you still have the GMT, mbasko?

Cheers - no GMT now. Wasn't getting much use so I sold it. Good machine if you can pick them up cheap enough - I wouldn't pay $1300 for a new one though.


Everything we use comes from mining or farming.

#69

Ridge Runner
Member
Joined: 04 September 2014
Posts: 5,469
Member
10 September 2015 04:17 am

Reg wrote:

Digger Bob mentions a couple of things. First, he mentions the bounce back which can happen in really bad ground. Well, this happens only in a couple of areas and his back yard is one of those areas. Also, I modified a SPP and sent it to him at the request of Jimmy Sierra. Digger was amazed on how much smoother the detector ground balanced plus the "bounce back" was gone. This was done after this video was made.

Digger was so impressed that even he jumped on the bandwagon to add the mods to the SL and SPP. His enthusiasm helped convince the new White's management to actually try the mods. Once they did, they were convinced the mods were the way to go.

Digger also uses the delay to eliminate basalt. Well, the SPP has no delay capability and that is why I mentioned using the GB instead. Both will work fine.

I suspect that people who have used PI's with auto ground balance that have noticed the gold signals can be lost by using the auto GB. Well, the SPP doesn't have the auto GB and won't adjust out gold.

Reg

Well Reg all your Good Work has paid off because I think they have fixed the TDI Pro as well, and It is a very serious Machine Now, incredible,

John


Dig em all,

1 user likes this post: Metamorphic

#70

Reg
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Joined: 14 August 2014
Posts: 120
Member
10 September 2015 06:42 am

What makes you think they fixed the Pro???

Reg

#71

Ridge Runner
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Joined: 04 September 2014
Posts: 5,469
Member
10 September 2015 06:47 am

Reg wrote:

What makes you think they fixed the Pro???

Reg

give me a second Reg and I will send you a PM,

John


Dig em all,

#72

mbasko
Member
From: Central West NSW
Joined: 27 January 2015
Posts: 4,046
Member
10 September 2015 10:24 am

Ridge Runner wrote:
Reg wrote:

What makes you think they fixed the Pro???

Reg

give me a second Reg and I will send you a PM,

John

Don't keep it under your hat - c'mon out with it! lol
I tend to agree with what Reg says above "guessing they haven't done anything to the TDI"
If Whites won't confirm it I reckon that's because they haven't done anything & if they won't deny it then I reckon that's cause they don't mind people thinking that they have tongue
From anything I can find or feedback I get the SPP's "hiccup" mod is the only change that's been made but going from what Reg has said Whites seem to have plenty of scope to develop improvements - just need the right people driving it by the sounds of things.
With the Digger Bob vid after watching again, & I'm not debunking it here, I would be a lot more comfortable seeing it done on ground covered with scattered basalt/hot rocks in situ & maybe even bury the gold in the mineralised ground too. I think Roscoe's results will give some real relevance to it on real "active" ground.


Everything we use comes from mining or farming.

#73

Ridge Runner
Member
Joined: 04 September 2014
Posts: 5,469
Member
10 September 2015 05:23 pm

Well I asked Whites if they had been Hot Rodding their machines, And Their reply was "There are Always On going Improvements Going On"

Which does not confirm or deny any thing, But after using them for so long I am seeing things that I have not come across before,

I know they have Tweaked the GMT because it now has a different software number and a symbol in the lower right hand corner when you turn it on and the Default GB is 50 and not 77 and I phoned Whites in Scotland and they confirmed it, along with Jimmy Sierra's Video where he states that he had them set it to 50, If you look in the GMT manual the pictures show you the GB setting of 77 but they forgot to update the manual.

And The MXT All Pro, Seems to see things almost as small as the GMT down to 0.03gm or just under with the standard 10" D2 coil and at greater distances than before,

And the new TDI Pro's will run indoors, flat out In the City and as Smooth as the TDI SL and it is VERY powerful,

hope this helps, john

Last edited by Ridge Runner (10 September 2015 05:45 pm)


Dig em all,

1 user likes this post: Metamorphic

#74

Caconym
Member
From: , ACT
Joined: 18 February 2018
Posts: 22
Member
07 December 2018 03:42 pm

Did this collation ever come to pass? It's a shame Sunriseboy was only a guest on the site and probably can't be contacted. I think it would be great to have all of Reg's various info compiled and maybe stickied on this subforum.

If somebody has a copy, I'd be happy to put any finishing touches on it. I have experience with writing and editing.


Will you search through the lonely earth for me?
Climb through the briar and bramble? I'm waiting for you.

#75

Ridge Runner
Member
Joined: 04 September 2014
Posts: 5,469
Member
07 December 2018 05:32 pm

Caconym wrote:

Did this collation ever come to pass? It's a shame Sunriseboy was only a guest on the site and probably can't be contacted. I think it would be great to have all of Reg's various info compiled and maybe stickied on this subforum.

If somebody has a copy, I'd be happy to put any finishing touches on it. I have experience with writing and editing.

Why not copy and paste it and email it to your self, then you have it all in the one place ?.


Dig em all,

1 user likes this post: Caconym

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