Whites SPP information and questions

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On very large Items the TDI's can see things that can be measured in metres but on small Coins and Nuggets they really suffer, where even a good VLF will wipe their clock, In very hot got the TDI's will be the Victor over a VLF but in any thing less the out come is reversed.
 
Simple thing to try first would be (as already suggested) try a small coil like a Nugget Finder Sadie 8"6" mono, Coiltek 6" coil etc. Here's a thread on several small coils being tested on the Whites TDI Oz Pro : https://www.prospectingaustralia.com p?id=21209
The Nugget Finder Sadie is a standout IMO.

dear thank you too match for your helping ..

but i have one one qu and the answer will help me too match ..

did any one try to test self made dd serch coil in tdi or spp ? if yes i want try to start make it if i find the link for its information that time i will be ready to
make comparing between dod and dd and mono

also if we try dd serch coil and its working with out needing to change any jumper or ctc.. its good for as to improve dirctly to dod serch coil which i have
now all informatio about it.

rgds
 
pcs spp white

1542190962_spp_tdi_2.jpg


if look in down board you find jumper . now its workin no 3 and 4 together .

1542191255_super_d.jpg

1542191255_viber_image.jpg
 
Moatazfaize I admire your work. I look forward to see your results.
Will the centre coil be tx or rx? A hard decision no doubt. I believe the gpz 7000 alternates.
What and how are you going to shield with? I would think each coil needs to be shielded seperate?
Matt T
 
Moatazfaize said:
Simple thing to try first would be (as already suggested) try a small coil like a Nugget Finder Sadie 8"6" mono, Coiltek 6" coil etc. Here's a thread on several small coils being tested on the Whites TDI Oz Pro : https://www.prospectingaustralia.com p?id=21209
The Nugget Finder Sadie is a standout IMO.

dear thank you too match for your helping ..

but i have one one qu and the answer will help me too match ..

did any one try to test self made dd serch coil in tdi or spp ? if yes i want try to start make it if i find the link for its information that time i will be ready to
make comparing between dod and dd and mono

also if we try dd serch coil and its working with out needing to change any jumper or ctc.. its good for as to improve dirctly to dod serch coil which i have
now all informatio about it.

rgds
I have only ever been able to try one DD coil an 11inch commander and I hope it was broken before I plugged it in, as it was when I tried it! It would only give a signal in the 75mm centre of the coil and did the same when I put it on the Gpx, I hadnt tried it before that.
Matt T
 
Moatazfaize said:
Simple thing to try first would be (as already suggested) try a small coil like a Nugget Finder Sadie 8"6" mono, Coiltek 6" coil etc. Here's a thread on several small coils being tested on the Whites TDI Oz Pro : https://www.prospectingaustralia.com p?id=21209
The Nugget Finder Sadie is a standout IMO.

dear thank you too match for your helping ..

but i have one one qu and the answer will help me too match ..

did any one try to test self made dd serch coil in tdi or spp ? if yes i want try to start make it if i find the link for its information that time i will be ready to
make comparing between dod and dd and mono

also if we try dd serch coil and its working with out needing to change any jumper or ctc.. its good for as to improve dirctly to dod serch coil which i have
now all informatio about it.

rgds

YES People have tried DD coils on the TDI's and only very few of them work on the TDI's,

It is not the Coil that makes the 7000 so good it is the person who wrote the software, the Coil is just an Arial an using a DD on a TDI is useless 85% of the time.
 
Ridge Runner said:
YES People have tried DD coils on the TDI's and only very few of them work on the TDI's,

It is not the Coil that makes the 7000 so good it is the person who wrote the software, the Coil is just an Arial an using a DD on a TDI is useless 85% of the time.

Agree totally but it looks like some are not prepared to listen.

The GPZ7000 uses a center TX coil with 2 outer RX coils. The DOD coil uses the receive coils to effectively cancel out GF and EMI. Unless the RX circuit is designed to do this, a DOD coil will be a lot less efficient than a simple mono or standard coil.

The DOD coil also will also have to be 'nulled' which calls for precise location of the outer coils with regard to each other and the inner coil.

The timings to run a DOD coil are totally different to those needed to run a mono or standard DD coil. Unless you have access to the software that controls everything and are able to re-program the Whites, I doubt very much you will be able to have a good working unit using this coil.
 
steelPHASE said:
Ridge Runner said:
YES People have tried DD coils on the TDI's and only very few of them work on the TDI's,

It is not the Coil that makes the 7000 so good it is the person who wrote the software, the Coil is just an Arial an using a DD on a TDI is useless 85% of the time.

Agree totally but it looks like some are not prepared to listen.

The GPZ7000 uses a center TX coil with 2 outer RX coils. The DOD coil uses the receive coils to effectively cancel out GF and EMI. Unless the RX circuit is designed to do this, a DOD coil will be a lot less efficient than a simple mono or standard coil.

The DOD coil also will also have to be 'nulled' which calls for precise location of the outer coils with regard to each other and the inner coil.

The timings to run a DOD coil are totally different to those needed to run a mono or standard DD coil. Unless you have access to the software that controls everything and are able to re-program the Whites, I doubt very much you will be able to have a good working unit using this coil.

It does seem crazy to try and use the 7000 type coil because the 7000 is more like a Hybrid VLF as opposed to a PI, If it was that easy we would all be using VLF coils on our PI machines because they are so much hotter on fine gold.

Whites put in years in to making the TDI's yet there is always some one who thinks they know better, If it worked well with a DD or a DOD Coil then Whites would have made one for it, Or at leased Hired him as their Technical Advisor. :N:
 
Im very disappointed this guy is having a go! You guys are pissing on his parade!
If people didnt have a go then we wouldnt have Litz wire, no flat wound coils no gpxs or Gpzs or Qeds!
For that matter no Spo1s.
Encouragement is due!
Matt T
 
Ship of fools said:
Im very disappointed this guy is having a go! You guys are pissing on his parade!
If people didnt have a go then we wouldnt have Litz wire, no flat wound coils no gpxs or Gpzs or Qeds!
For that matter no Spo1s.
Encouragement is due!
Matt T

It's not a case of Peeing on any ones parade, We have been over this many times on this forum and other forums, The GPZ is a very complex machine unlike any other on the market, and we are just trying to save him any expense or disappointment or Both, And seeing as I own a TDI SL and Owned the TDI pro I know for a fact that DD's "Do Not" work well on the TDI's, there are only about 3 or 4 DD's that sort of work on the TDI and the GPZ Coil Is Not One Of Them,

And to get them to sort of work you have to off set the Delay or Ground Balance, which moves the Target ID Range and in some cases cause you to reduce the Gain setting.

As a TDI Owner don't you think that I would want them to work ? but sad to say they do not So I am stuck using Mono's or Duel Field Mono's.
 
Ship of fools said:
Im very disappointed this guy is having a go! You guys are pissing on his parade!
If people didnt have a go then we wouldnt have Litz wire, no flat wound coils no gpxs or Gpzs or Qeds!
For that matter no Spo1s.
Encouragement is due!
Matt T

Not true. All the things you have quoted are re-designs of an existing idea. Not trying to add on to an existing design. Two totally different concepts.

I love seeing people experiment and try things but I just hate to see him waste his time and perhaps damage his machine in the process. To be honest I think time would be better spent buying the MPP detector kit and modifying this. It could possibly lend itself to redesign to run with a dod coil. You can add a microprocessor to the design and alter all the timings etc.

But back to the topic- get a factory built mono coil (even if you have to borrow it) and then check that the detector is actually working properly to start with.
 
Good on Moatazfaize for having a go at coil making.

The made for TDI DD coils I'm using work extremely well and are my preferred coils for difficult ground and small low conducting targets.

Coilteck and Minelab DD coils also work well on my TDI and SPP.

Dual field coil on the TDI BH is an excellent match when beach hunting, Whites got that one right!
 
Dear

If Dd coil working in tdi or spp that means rx and tx in pcb board
are accept working with DoD search cable. That for DoD cable has two
Rx cable same as one .

I am going to make DoD search cable same as 2 point

1- same one tx and rx mono spider cable in same time.
2-or same as dd coil as we have 2 rx and one tx

The the both two rx cables Must be 2 ohm and 300 micro Henry
And the tx also same information .

I will work total diameter 12

Plz if any help information I need it .

Rgds
 
Plz look to this design all this down pic we xan do it as mono coils

1542600310_screenshot_------1.jpg

1542600310_--_...jpg

1542600311_post-6747-1246826783.jpg


If we can do good things ,, plz any update for helping , I need your
Feed back .

Rgds
 
this from memeber (reg)

There has been some confusion about using DD coil on The TDI series of detectors. In fact, someone from OZ mentioned to Miner John that Eric Foster indicated that DD coils wouldn't work on the TDI units. To the best of my knowledge, Eric never said that. What he might have said is that DD coils weren't necessary and the TDI would work find in most areas with a mono coil. Many years ago, Eric mentioned DD coils would probably be necessary in OZ, but this was stated well before he designed the GS 5 (the TDI initial design).

DD coils will work fine on any TDI including the SPP units. DD coils may work a little better on the TDI Pro simply because of the filtering modification on the Pro which allows for a little faster sweep speed.

The regular TDI and the SL series have a little slower filtering, thus requiring slower sweep action for best results and maximum depth. This is especially true when searching for small gold. So, regardless of the coil used, the SL series clearly does require a slower sweep speed for the best results.

Since the typical overlap of a DD is quite narrow, the detection range is nowhere near as wide as that found on a mono coil, thus the signal has more time to increase on a mono and this longer time of detection makes it easier to hear. Different designs of a DD could be tried including the rather odd design of the ATX DD coil which appears to have a small round overlap area.

DD coils are popular on VLF units because the reduce the ground signal. This is also true on a PI but also isolate the transmit from the receive on a PI, thus reducing noise further.

DD coils also have a narrow detection range which is quite sensitive, thus making them preferred on some areas when looking for small gold. However, keeping the DD coil low and going slow are required for proper results.

White's developed the Dual Field (DF) as a means of using a mono instead of a DD coil. Dan Geyer was the engineer responsible for the design. Unfortunately, Eric Foster found that the DF had some limitations in OZ and were not recommended for use there. Since the DF coil design was patented by White's, some other idea had to be implemented if the same concept was to be used that would allow a mono coil to have an enhanced small gold response.

Thus, the folded or foldback design was developed by me many years ago. The idea was to enhance signals from small gold without the use of a DF or a DD design. The specifics can be found back around 2009 on the Geotech forum where I posted how to build one. The idea was to build a figure 8 coil but fold the top part of the 8 back into the bottom half and then elongate the inner portion of the winding. The result was an increased field that enhanced small gold but didn't suffer some of the ground problems of the DF. Here is the link to that idea

http://www.geotech1.com/forums/showthre olded+coil

Drop down to my post about a different dual field design.

So, now you know a little more about the history of DF and the folded mono design.

Reg
 
Moatazfaize said:
DD coils are popular on VLF units because the reduce the ground signal. This is also true on a PI but also isolate the transmit from the receive on a PI, thus reducing noise further.

DD coils also have a narrow detection range which is quite sensitive, thus making them preferred on some areas when looking for small gold. However, keeping the DD coil low and going slow are required for proper results.

Fact is a DD on a VLF makes the detector suffer a bit more from EMI, And also a Concentric on a VLF is a lot Hotter on small Gold than a DD and the Concentric is normally deeper, As is a Mono on a PI machine,
 
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