Density of ruby

I have had an online search and a search in this forum but so far no luck.

Does synthetic ruby have the same density as natural ruby?

I have what I believed to be 2 specimens of natural ruby. One I have tested and it appears to be Apophyllite, not ruby with a density of 2.38. The other is Sri Lankan cut and a density of 4.10 and it is like ruby, you know, just looking into it makes me believe that it is ruby.

Back to the question - any ideas?

Oh, and yes, it is magnetic. It followed my neodymium magnet around the bowl with ease, but that is not to say that it is not synthetic. :|

Oh yeah, and how big is this ruby? 3.3 ct and 9x8mm. I got it out of a 9ct gold setting that I wanted for another stone.

Ruby is roughly between 3.9 - 4.1 generally 4.0, most flouresce under uv light as well.

http://gemologyproject.com/wiki/index.php?title=Specific_Gravity

This is what I did find:

"just as with the other synthetic rubies, the flux-grown stones have the density and refractive indices similar to those of natural stones."

I will have to have it tested further to differentiate from synthetic or fusion stone.

The cut definitely identifies it with Asian / Ceylonese work and the stone is more cloudy than bright and clear, which I know flux and syns are much brighter than natural stone.

I just tested the fluorescence and it definitely fluoresces and the supposed Apophyllite much more so.

Apophyllite is a bit soft for a gem (can sometimes scratch with a coin, always with steel). If you look into it with a high-power hand lens, can you see any tiny mineral inclusions?

Any evidence of growth lines? Curved, straight?

The Apophyllite (present name for the stone) is 14 x 10 x 3 mm and is clear vis and free of any inclusions and under fluoro light it blazes an orange colouring; the hopeful ruby has small curvish striations and minimally apparent small bubbles in a cloudy stone that is far from bright transparency but it does fluoresce a glowing pinkish/warm red.

Pat Hogan said:

the hopeful ruby has small curvish striations and minimally apparent small bubbles in a cloudy stone that is far from bright transparency but it does fluoresce a glowing pinkish/warm red.

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Have a read of this. It's written by a lady who is well on the ball regarding gemology. The evidence of curved growth lines sets alarm bells off very loudly. And so does the bubble.
What I don't get is, "why a cloudy stone?.

Anyway about 4/5 of the way down she discusses growth patterns. Else where she talks about bubbles. Have a read and see what you think and let us know.
http://www.bwsmigel.info/Lesson5/DE.Magnification.html

Also a bit here about 'heat treated Hong Hsu rubies'. Half way down.

http://www.ruby-sapphire.com/flux_healing_mong_hsu_ruby.htm

Hope it helps.

Any pics?

the Mong Hsu ruby is almost always an ugly duckling. There are two major problems. The first is dense silk/particle clouds and a strong purplish color, making most stones look like low-grade, cloudy rhodolite garnet. This is mainly due to the crystals unusual blue cores. Ordinary heat-treatment removes the blue, as well as removing silk, making the final product a rich, clear red. The market generally accepts such heated stones without a quibble.

The stone is neither strong, purplish nor a rich, clear red. Photos? Not right at the moment.

The striae shown in bwsmigel.info is much more than the minimal striae in this stone. The striae that I detect are singular and not flowing in the one direction.

I will continue this tomorrow.

Fluoro light and standard light.

Do you have a 365nm UV light? This really lights up a ruby and can be a quick check that I have used when looking for stones to re-cut at auctions. Not 100% reliable on other stones, topaz being one, but ruby is pretty much 100%

No Dihusky, but I will get one shortly, just not today. Thank you for your tip (auction stones)

Some companies are getting so good at manufacturing stones that it is very difficult to tell the difference between natural and manufactured stones, even for trained gemologists. The fact it's slightly magnetic might bbe a good indicator that it's real.

Anyway I'm no gemologist.

Hope it's turns out to be genuine.

Heatho said:

Some companies are getting so good at manufacturing stones that it is very difficult to tell the difference between natural and manufactured stones, even for trained gemologists. The fact it's slightly magnetic might bbe a good indicator that it's real.

Anyway I'm no gemologist.

Hope it's turns out to be genuine.

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I've often said "I trust what I see coming out of the ground with my own eyes". Unfortunately, this is often not possible. An eye-clean stone already faceted would probably be one of the more difficult things to determine natural from man-made.

Even some rough can be fake. I recall an emerald scam originating in Africa where real beryl crystals were used to form moulds which were then lined with mica and bits of the host rock in which the emerald typically occurs and green glass poured in, creating a fake that like convincing (at first glance - close examination would quickly have revealed that somethign was amiss). I don't think the scam took long to be discovered but the scammers relieved some people of plenty of $$$ before they were caught out.

Hope it turns out to the the real deal Pat :Y:

I am cutting the real deal at the moment Lefty, a decent size emerald crystal that is real, came out of the ground. I bought a bag of mine run way back in the late 90's and have just decided to have a look at cutting a piece. Intensely saturated with inclusion, but a bit of clear green around the crown and a beautiful green. Some of it is very much worth carving with.

Lefty said:

Even some rough can be fake.

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SG 3.7
Mohs 7
Refractive index 1.7



Nanositol sold as garnet in Tanzania.

Mr Magoo said:

Lefty said:

Even some rough can be fake.

Click to expand...

SG 3.7
Mohs 7
Refractive index 1.7

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/img/member-images/3008/1529840173_garnets.jpg

Nanositol sold as garnet in Tanzania.

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They've done a pretty convincing job with that nanositol! Buyer beware.

Hope you get a nice stone out of the emerald - is it a Torrington one?

No Lefty, it is Colombian. As I said I bought a parcel 20 odd years ago when the market was a bit freer than it is today. We turned a corner somewhere and I think the rough dealers became a bit too ridiculous. Watching a show like Prospectors and hearing their expected returns on stone was way out past where we used to be when purchasing from dealers.

An update for anyone who may be interested - the aforementioned ruby has been verified as natural ruby, by a gemmologist, awaiting valuation before setting.

Nice it is a shame we need to question originality but got to be happy on the unexpected bonus from something you acquired for recycling the setting arty:

Hows that emerald coming along Pat, looks challenging.