Pump this, Sluice that...

Howdy all,

New member with little to no experience with pumps, sluices or gold and prospecting for that matter. Better late than never though, ey?
Ive only recently practiced panning over a couple of days and was lucky enough ( after reading about prospecting old river beds ) to have located a nice big old gravel bar containing - flour, fine, flakes and coarse gold. ( Forgive my ignorance if any of my terminology is off. )
So, ive decided to give it a go and see how it all pans out. I've explored all around the internet and these ideas that I've come across will be the basis for a setup.
Many thanks to ProspectingAustralia for its vast array of knowledge and information
I'm hoping to post this and get some feedback to get myself started, and then learn from my own experiences as I go and hopefully sharing them amongst the members. So some info, hints, tips, tricks, advice; input, would be greatly appreciated.

Ill be sluicing in an old dry river bed on private property. There is a lot of tiny river stones, sand and black sands, with little to no clay.

I was considering this as a setup.
Don't really have the money to throw around at the moment but are keen to get started. About $700-800 will be the budget and from what I understand its not money that you need to get the gold, its skill.

I'll be needing to recirculate water for where I am looking to sluice.
The water will have to be transfered from the small patches of water nearby into a large plastic tub and is fairly murky looking.

Here is the blueprint.

The Recirculating water:

- Input hose sitting in a submerged bucket
- The input hose will be covered in shade cloth or fly screen, followed by an old stocking over the hose input to prevent debris entering the pump. Is this safety measure a little bit of overkill?

The Pump:

Rato
1.5 input 1.5 output - 40mm
2 litre fuel tank
12.5kg
233 LPM
16 Metre maximum head
6 Metre suction head
3 HP 98cc SV engine

Pump Modifications:

- Change spark plug
- Change oil
- Add some kind of muffler?

The Hoses:

x2 - 5m layflat - 1 inch
x1 - 10m layflat - 1 inch
x1 - 5m PVC suction hose 1 inch (to join to the hopper preventing kinks)
x1 - 6 camlock connections

The Highbanker:

GS18 from Sluicy Equipment
Hopper - 130x600x240mm
Tray - 1200x250x80mm
1" water input nipple
3/4" spray bars

Highbanker Modifications:

- Make the Hopper angle adjustable
- Spray bars converted from holes into slots to cover more area and for more water volume
- Join the spray bars creating a full loop so the water hits the material 'head on' as it is sliding downwards towards the bars. Or even just have the 'head on' bar itself
- Remove the ribbed walkway carpet that comes with it
- Remove the built in Straight riffles, Angled riffles or Hungarian riffles ( which ever they are )
- Add Coarse but loose Woven Rubber matting - instead of miners moss
- Add bread crate in the center or the second half section? ( WalnLiz have sold me on this idea, just not sure how exactly to do it )
- Add Aluminum Sloped Expanded Catwalk Mesh (100x40x15) at the beggining and possibly end sections

To be honest the idea of the first run has my mind wondering. I've never used a sluice box and sure as hell have never set one up. Angles, velocity, volumes, pressure etc. I'm not sure if it'll be self explanatory or if it'll be a bust. I'd hate to lose a decent amount of quality gold due to inexperience, but it may be the only way to learn.

Some questions:

- What else should be modified for an optimum balanced performance of efficiency

- Any suggestions to modify to the spray bars on the hopper?

- Benefits of adding a ball valve?

- Keep any of the original riffles in certain areas or discarding all of them or even installing new ones?

- Will connecting a PVC suction hose to a layflat affect the water pressure?

- Two step ramp riffles worth looking into installing anywhere along the sluice?

- Would the size of my 'expanded catwalk' be dictated by how much pressure the pump is running into the sluice?

- Is there a way to muffle the water pump to reduce the sound level?

- How would you prevent air bubbles entering the pump?

- Priming the water pump?

- Is reducing the hose size to 1 inch to get increased water pressure the way to go?

- How to determine a Loose Coarse Woven Rubber Mat? How to tell if a Coarse Woven Rubber mat is too tight to efficiently release gold? There are many makes of the woven rubber mats.

- Would it be an idea to obtain little lead pellets to test the sluice before sluicing, or is this just a time waster as gold is gold and lead is lead?

I guess why I'm putting this together is to hear whether it is a 'nice' option for the money I'm willing to currently spend, or whether I should be considering spending my hard earnt on another setup combination for around the same price.
I'm thinking the first half sloped expanded catwalk. And the second half of the bread crate idea that WalnLiz use. I like different.

I said to the Mrs that I'm going to give this a try and her eyes lit up at the idea of a handful of gold. I think she thinks of it as a money maker ...let's get rich, kinda thing. I'm a realist and I look at it as whether I pull an ounce or a speck, its about getting outside with friends and the kids, giving something new a go and so either way it's a success. \o/

A quick thanks in advance to all advice, corrections, opinions and suggestions...

Cheers,

Chris

Wow! you've done some homework, NB: the marked up mesh dimensions on the last pic look wrong - maybe need a decimal point in there and be expressed as cm

good luck

casper

Hi Mate and welcome to our crazy world.
.
If you got all of that for under $800.00 you have done well.
.
First, Don't fix it if it aint broke. LOL
.
The Rato Pump will be more than adequate to run the banker. I lot of us use them and love them. Bloody Good Value.
.
Yes, I know, We all like to tinker and I am guilty as well,, But, Don't stray off the beaten path to much.
.
- What else should be modified for an optimum balanced performance of efficiency - Depends on the material you are working. What you have is perfect for this setup.

- Any suggestions to modify to the spray bars on the hopper? Not until you try it. Some like slots, Some like holes.

- Benefits of adding a ball valve? Perfect. I use one. Drop the ball valve in the water, shake it backwards and forwards. It will fill with water. Fill the pump and start.

- Keep any of the original riffles in certain areas or discarding all of them or even installing new ones?. Try it first and when you do, Get the little rocks bouncing around just under the first few riffles. Fluid Bed.

- Will connecting a PVC suction hose to a layflat affect the water pressure?. Yes, If using a lay flat for suction, It will suck shut.

- Two step ramp riffles worth looking into installing anywhere along the sluice?. For that size box. No.

- Would the size of my 'expanded catwalk' be dictated by how much pressure the pump is running into the sluice? Depends on what you are processing. Brilliant idea but get used to what you have then start thinking.

- Is there a way to muffle the water pump to reduce the sound level? - It's not to bad. Just set your hoses so the exhaust faces away from you. If you want to go under cover, well, a bit of trouble to go to unless you want to risk damaging your pump motor.

- How would you prevent air bubbles entering the pump? - Ensure that the hose clamps are of good quality. Do not use radiator hose clamps. Use Band Clamps that you can get from an irrigation supplier. Put a small peice of hose over the hose first then slide the clamp over, push the hose on over the Barb then the sleeve of pipe position the clamp and firm it up. Keep an eye on your seals in the cam locks and finally, Make sure your suction inlet is at least 300 mm under the water surface. Other wise it will form vortice like water going down a plug hole and suck air.

- Priming the water pump? As above. Drop your ball valve into the water and shake it back wards and forwards. It will hammer water into itself and fill up. Attach to the pump then fill it with water. They are fitted with a one way valve but when trying to raise water up can take awhile burning out the seal in the pump.
- Is reducing the hose size to 1 inch to get increased water pressure the way to go? Only if you want to change that nice setup you have. what you have is almost the same I made. It is an excellent idea. Keep your supply lines 1. 1/2 right to the banker. Don't put any restrictions in.
- How to determine a Loose Coarse Woven Rubber Mat? How to tell if a Coarse Woven Rubber mat is too tight to efficiently release gold? There are many makes of the woven rubber mats. Try what you have. We all use mats either from Bunnings or Big W. If you want, Give Detecta Den one of our site sponsors a ring. They carry it in stock.

- Would it be an idea to obtain little lead pellets to test the sluice before sluicing, or is this just a time waster as gold is gold and lead is lead? Good idea if you want. Paint the red and also flatten them a bit with a hammer. That way you can see where they are. Round pellets will test you out big time.
.
Above one and All,
Have Fun.

This was too much to add to the above post. LOL
.
With recirculating your water, Use a string of small water holes back to where you are pumping from. That way you are using nature and gravity to do the work for you.
Stops the risk of sucking debris into your pump wearing out seals and clogging your spray bars. Also you would need a rather large tub because you will be playing in a fair flow of water. I have a 200 litre test tank for my setup and with the pump running there is not a great deal of room for a filter system.
You will also fill it up in no time with dirt..

casper said:

Wow! you've done some homework, NB: the marked up mesh dimensions on the last pic look wrong - maybe need a decimal point in there and be expressed as cm

good luck

casper

Click to expand...

Heya Casper,

Stole that diagram from this forum. Not my own work but in my later years I've come to use millimeters over centimeters as I am a landscaper and the boss wouldn't stop until I saw the world in 'mm', :lol: ...its a lot easier believe it or not.

As long as you aren't measuring km in mm, then its mm all the way

Tathradj said:

This was too much to add to the above post. LOL
.
With recirculating your water, Use a string of small water holes back to where you are pumping from. That way you are using nature and gravity to do the work for you.
Stops the risk of sucking debris into your pump wearing out seals and clogging your spray bars. Also you would need a rather large tub because you will be playing in a fair flow of water. I have a 200 litre test tank for my setup and with the pump running there is not a great deal of room for a filter system.
You will also fill it up in no time with dirt..

Click to expand...

Wow, Tathradj

Thanks for the enthusiastic response and the effort put into it.

I do agree with the old "ain't broke don't fix it" and with the idea I should try what I've got before making the assumptions. I just want to play it safe and have some confidence I "know" what I'm doing. :lol:

Some cool pointers there for me, and I really appreciate your time.

I haven't bought that setup yet but probably will be unless someone was to pursuede me different. ...I'm vulnerable

Thanks again, Tathradj

Cheers,

Chris

PS: Do the rubber mats need to be washed or rinsed before using them? I know rubber and plastic products tend to have a thin "film" of Oil on them that wears off over time with a wash or scrub.

I've read oil is an enemy of gold, particularly fine and flour gold.

Where are you from terraaustralis ? With all that modifying you plan on doing to the sluice you would be better off building a walbanker or buying one even ..love the plans though .. your in the same boat as me although I havent found the dry river bed of gold yet

Just a thought,
if you are in a DRY river/creek
and water is a problem
if you are recirculation the water, it is going to get very dirty, very quick, putting a stocking over the intake is goind to block up
the fine mesh is good, but lose the stocking
the pump can handle the fine dirt that goes through it

But as for the Just a thought
have you considered a dry blower

You are welcome.
Give Detecta Den a ring on 02-6280 9114.
Price up a WalBanker. Guaranteed to catch Gold.
Don't Worry, They can ship them Australia Wide very quickly.
With purchasing one and a pump and hoses, You may go a Tad over Budget but you will have a proven setup that works.
Rato Pumps sell a pump, Hoses and clamps at a great price so in one swoop you will have a setup that is totally transportable and will give you peace of mind that it all works.
The amount of enjoyment you will get back will be priceless.
.
Let us know how you go.
.
Doug

Terrraaustralis2014 said:

Tathradj said:

This was too much to add to the above post. LOL
.
With recirculating your water, Use a string of small water holes back to where you are pumping from. That way you are using nature and gravity to do the work for you.
Stops the risk of sucking debris into your pump wearing out seals and clogging your spray bars. Also you would need a rather large tub because you will be playing in a fair flow of water. I have a 200 litre test tank for my setup and with the pump running there is not a great deal of room for a filter system.
You will also fill it up in no time with dirt..

Click to expand...

Wow, Tathradj

Thanks for the enthusiastic response and the effort put into it.

I do agree with the old "ain't broke don't fix it" and with the idea I should try what I've got before making the assumptions. I just want to play it safe and have some confidence I "know" what I'm doing. :lol:

Some cool pointers there for me, and I really appreciate your time.

I haven't bought that setup yet but probably will be unless someone was to pursuede me different. ...I'm vulnerable

Thanks again, Tathradj

Cheers,

Chris

PS: Do the rubber mats need to be washed or rinsed before using them? I know rubber and plastic products tend to have a thin "film" of Oil on them that wears off over time with a wash or scrub.

I've read oil is an enemy of gold, particularly fine and flour gold.

Click to expand...

XIV said:

Just a thought,
if you are in a DRY river/creek
and water is a problem
if you are recirculation the water, it is going to get very dirty, very quick, putting a stocking over the intake is goind to block up
the fine mesh is good, but lose the stocking
the pump can handle the fine dirt that goes through it

But as for the Just a thought
have you considered a dry blower

Click to expand...

I like the sound of a dry blower too, depends where you are mate but if its a dry river bed it may be easier not to worry about water. Set the dry blower up and within 5 mins of turning up your on your way shovelling and recovering gold.

food for thought

Hi terraaustralis. The problem with a recirc system is the longer you run it, the more the viscosity of the water changes. This can keep the fine and flour gold in suspension and blow it right out of your box.
Some people have had success with running multiple tubs joined by some poly pipe. Where you sluice into the first bucket and draw water from the last. Adding some gypsum to the water can also work.
Be careful that the stocking doesn't clog with silt and put to much pressure on your pump. regards, shingles.
Ps. Your pretty lucky having gold bearing ground on private property, I'm a little bit jealous!

Hi Chris,
Too true mate. Give every thing a rinse in warm soapy water before using it all. Soap loves gold. It removes any thin film of oil and also breaks the surface tension.
A few spots of Finnish in your pan will cause the gold to drop straight to the bottom of your pan.
.
PS: Do the rubber mats need to be washed or rinsed before using them? I know rubber and plastic products tend to have a thin "film" of Oil on them that wears off over time with a wash or scrub.

I've read oil is an enemy of gold, particularly fine and flour gold.

Hey fellas,

Madworld
XIV
MJB
Shingles
and Doug

Appreciate the input and there are some new ideas, for sure. I'm from South Vic, by the way.

They say 'you are what you eat', and this forum certainly isn't junk food.

Where to start, umm...

Dryblowers - A little too expensive for me but is something I hadn't come across yet.
Not exactly sure how they work, saw a quick video, then some prices, and although the river bed is dry, its not completely. Its mosit and even damp the further you go down. Might be an issue

I'll be giving Detecta Den a call over this next few days and will be interested to hear what they have to say. Thanks for the number also, Doug.

Recirculating murky, dirty, muddy water is an issue that has been on my mind. Doing one pan in a puddle is bad enough, but 25 cubic meters of gravel? ...damn. :/

Gypsum has my interest. Probably not my solution for the moment but sounds like it could be of assistance. What form do you purchase it in and how would you "use" it?

Finish or some kind of non bubbling degreaser is a fantastic idea for panning. Could you use it in a giant tub for a recirculating setup?

Geez guys, I ask one question, get one answer, and then suddenly have two new questions. :lol:

Maybe its the same though with gold as with most things in life, ey? ...'Its not the destination but the journey'. And in a world where there are no real set rules, than maybe I should just explore a little more then get out and just relax and give her a go

Cheers, People

Chris

...off to eat dinner and ponder some more. \o/ LOL.

Finish or some kind of non bubbling degreaser is a fantastic idea for panning. Could you use it in a giant tub for a recirculating setup?

Yes it can
a few different things to use
jet dry
borax
spray and wipe
window cleaner
metho
or dishwashind liquid
they all work well

Quick source of gypsum is gyprock or more commonly plasterboard.
Most residential building sites will have some hanging out the trade cleanup up bin after the plasterer has been on site. Crush it up remove cardboard pure refined gypsum.

Now it's been mentioned I'm going to give it a test, never heard of it before but I'll run out of water before I'll run out of crushed gypsum from work.

OK,
.....I am seeing information overload.
.
Pick a point and start simple.
ie,
Point 1,,, a couple of puddles makes one big one. - You have a pump.
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Point 2,,, You have proved that gold is there with a simple yet time honored tool. - A Pan.
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It is not going to go any where at the moment except down deeper into the sub straight under it..
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You had the right idea after using a pan. A Banker lets you process more material.
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I would say that the next 6 months will be wet.
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Dry Blower is a simple and fantastic machine.
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You have wet dirt.
.
Use a banker and water.

Crikey!!! I need a poppy nap I'm worn out reading all that.....phew

Struth Mate,,
What is wrong with you. :lol:
I wear glass's. 8)

Hmmm, I don't know guys. Still haven't been out to test it. Hoping to this weekend if this Victorian weather clears up a little.

One of the videos I've posted has the sluice on a lesser angle. I was just showing the sluice running without material ( as I don't have any at the moment ) for any advice.

I think there are a few "obvious" tweaks that need to be made. Water pressure and angle etc. But I'm not too sure.

Read something about the spacing between riffles should be 1:5. For every one riffle, have 5 equivilant of empty space before the next riffle. Hungarian riffles have me wondering how effective they actually are in certain situations.

Toothache bugging me - so a few Jimmy's, a movie with the kid and some forum browsing is my night for tonight.

Anyway, cheers for the thoughts in advance.


https://youtu.be/eduOxPwCLPU

https://youtu.be/WZLSCuY-fwM

Apologies for the phone cameras rotation etc.