FORS Gold Review by Steve Herschbach - USA

Prospecting Australia

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the duck said:
We are a passionate bunch thats for sure, having used VLF detectors on the victorian goldfields i know the short comings they have with hot rocks and not so much the falsing but lack of penetration is always the problem
When using a VLF on shallow bedrock areas that are trashy they do have their use, but as true goldies know minelab is the only way to go and a lot of people get angry when a VLF is compared to a late model PI machine
That is why i don't believe a VLF should ever be compared to a late model PI machine they should be compared to the next best VLF of which there are a few

Agreed, I used VLF detectors professionally for a number of years and as Steve Herschbach can attest still enjoy chasing gold with them. The challenge is to target the correct areas where their use is possible, which is usually the shallower areas in and around bed rock or the tops of old diggers heaps. To date my favorite VLF detectors for chasing gold were the Minelab XT 17000, the Whites VSAT and the Fisher Gold Bug II. I've not done much with the later lower frequency options such as the Gold Bug PRO or some of the Garrett offerings, although I have had a play with the Xterra 705 and found it to be a little frustrating in some respects.

For small gold there is no substitute for having a high operating frequency in my opinion (32KHz and above). The Gold bug II does a brilliant job in pretty high mineralization considering it's runs a 70KHz operating freq, the Iron Grunt mode is also very good once you get used to it, Steve H showed me a lot of excellent tricks with this little unit in WA a few years back.

JP
 
the duck said:
We are a passionate bunch thats for sure, having used VLF detectors on the victorian goldfields i know the short comings they have with hot rocks and not so much the falsing but lack of penetration is always the problem
When using a VLF on shallow bedrock areas that are trashy they do have their use, but as true goldies know minelab is the only way to go and a lot of people get angry when a VLF is compared to a late model PI machine
That is why i don't believe a VLF should ever be compared to a late model PI machine they should be compared to the next best VLF of which there are a few

But im watching this post closely as it is borderline advertising and self promotion as we now have the manufacturer and one of the australian distributors in this post and we are having question asked from members who are sponsors and have to pay to advertise

Hello. We have read the forum rules. Our post was a ''review'' and we have not made any claims regarding our products. Nokta Detectors have always respected and followed any laws or regulations of any organization/community/country that they have been involved in and will always do. We are not a dealer and we do not sell. We respect all competition and our goal is not to get into any debates with competitors. Our goal is to introduce ourselves and our company and support customers who are interested in our products as well as getting their feedbacks so we can offer them the best service and products that they deserve.

Now regarding being a sponsor - As a matter of fact we just paid the sponsorship fee. We did not realize that we had to be a sponsor to make posts as a manufacturer but we believe the issue is taken care of now for those who are very concerned about Nokta making posts without being a sponsor. Thank you all!
 
Ok, considering Nokta have now taken out paid sponsorship on the forum, it would be appreciated if members could please refrain from making unproductive comments on the said detector, and manufacturer. If you don't like their products, or don't have anything useful to contribute, don't post. I'm sure other members are still keen to see what Nokta have to offer.

Regardless of how well you think a detector will work in Oz conditions, we should always welcome new manufacturers and products to the market.

Yes, Nokta could have handled the posting of the review better than we would have liked, and sought sponsorship earlier on, but hopefully that is all now behind us.

Aussie Detecting, considering this exact same review has been posted on other forums, and the same issues encountered, it would have been in your best interest to also become a site sponsor, just as you have elsewhere - especially considering you sell Nokta products. If that had been the case, none of the current issues would have arisen in the first place. Other sponsors on here have been courteous enough to take up sponsorship, and have every right to be concerned when products are spruked by non sponsors.

Cheers :)
 
Thanks Brad, if there are any concerns re site sponsorship, please contact the site Administrator, Harri.

On another note, I see a member of another forum has taken up the opportunity to do an independant, warts and all review of the Nokta FORS Gold on some of the NSW goldfields.
 
That's right. Nokta have asked for independent testers to write reviews. Understandably if myself or Nokta post about a product it's seen as biased & advertising.
It will be interesting to see what they come up with.
I will consider taking up sponsorship as Nokta isn't the only brand I use & sell.
 
Hello Jonathan!

Chris and I are camping in the Nevada outback right now. Desert country but it is winter, and that means snow yesterday morning! Warmer but raining this morning, letting up now, so off to hunt gold soon. No luck yesterday so maybe today.

I know you can do an honest review and would love to see it. Not sure how other Aussies would view it however. All a person can do is say it like you see it and let the chips fall where they may.

"Out of curiosity how did the FORS Gold compare to the Similar frequency versions of the Gold Bug (Gold Bug PRO I think it is)?"

The Nokta runs at 15 kHz but is very high gain, similar to the Gold Bug Pro but more like the F75 or T2 in my opinion. The main issue I see in Oz may be the overload warning, similar to what the GMT has, that gives an audio alert when the gain is too high. Most people do not realize that many VLF detectors shut down over bad ground with no warning. The question with the FORS Gold is how low must the gain be run to avoid constant overload signals on extremely bad ground? I expect in Oz there is ground it basically will not work on, but that would be the same ground that would shut down most any VLF detector.

The problem there is how to fairly test a VLF detector on ground that really calls for a PI. My answer is to use a PI where it is warranted and leave the VLF for places it is suited. Still, it is interesting to see what VLF detectors handle the worst ground the best, realizing they will be severely constrained and often very touchy to operate.

I think most hot VLF detectors are similar enough in manual ground balance mode. For instance, you did not fare to well, I beleive, with the GMT. I think the Main issue was the auto tracking not being sufficient for your needs. I am sure in manual balance it is just a hot VLF. So what I am curious about is how VLF detectors fare in Australia in automatic tracking, with Minelab probably setting the standard with the XT and Eureka models. The feature that sets the FORS Gold apart from a VLF like the Gold Bug Pro or F75 is the automatic tracking. So - is the tracking up to Australia conditions?

To answer your question more directly JP, I am thinking of selling the Gold Bug Pro and keeping the Nokta. But I have to do more in field testing yet to sort out the details before I make that call.

I am very sure that most people will be far to inclined to run the Nokta at higher gains than called for. In the default setting of 50 out of a range of 1-99 it is much hotter than most detectors, and running it higher in hot ground will overdrive the coil and overload the detector. I would expect to be running under 50 in bad ground. That leads people to think they have given up the depth. The key of course is to seek a stable threshold at whatever settings are required to make that happen. The depth then will just be whatever it is at that level of stable settings, with pros maybe pushing into the edge of instability.

The worst ground I ran the Nokta in was as red as much found in Oz and it behaved well, but did want to overload on numerous large ironstone hot rocks. Any nuggets near or under those rocks would be missed. It is possible that on an Australian strewn ironstone fields the unit would just go into constant overload. In more moderate conditions however the unit should perform well, as long as the operator does not succumb to the temptation to overdrive the unit.

Nokta seems like the kind of company unafraid to make an attempt and perhaps stumble, but then use the situation to learn and make adjustments resulting in better product. They do appear to have very bright engineers and it would be beneficial to all to have another company seeking to build machines capable of handling the worst conditions in the world. What is needed is some honest feedback in a constructive way about what failings, if any, the detector has in Australia, so that the next iteration can address the concerns.
 
I might not be a prospector,....but I am a Treasure hunter that knows about salty sand and mineralised ground, if that detector isn't working on the wet salty beach sand I'd say it may have a bit of difficulty in a highly mineralised area,...don't get me wrong I'm not knocking it,...just saying as the detector I use has a hard time on the wet sand and has targets masked and loads of noise in mineralised ground,...so much so that it makes you wonder what might still be in the ground at times.
 
Hi Steve, in my opinion if you tell me a detector is worth considering then I sit up and pay attention. Even PI machines have their bug bear places that drive them nuts which require different approaches to achieve decent results, so to me it's just part of the everyday hurdles that go hand in hand with the search for gold. Get to know what a detector is good at then target locations that suit it's strong points.

Interesting about the Gain, I assume this is to drive a decent signal response out of the lower frequency circuit when coupled with a DD coil, I personally would prefer to see a concentric coil provided for the lower frequency detectors and just let the operator select the locations best suited for their use, is there a concentric coil available for this detector?

I had a lot of success in WA with the XT 17000 using a 20" Barrie Johnson DD coil in the 6.4KHz mode using the auto tracking feature, how's 12 ounces in 3 weeks working in deep well worked ground sound? Those experiences back in 1994 taught me a hell of a lot for when the SD2000 came out the next year, getting to know what a deep target sounded like in extreme mineralization really prepped me for the PI years.

Also to the previous poster, all VLF detectors will struggle to some extent in salt especially a high freq VLF in all metal mode, saline ground especially wet saline ground is a completely different animal compared to mineralised ground and requires a totally different ground balance regime. Combine the two in conjunction with a high gain and you have a horrible place to detect especially if you want to achieve any sort of depth.

JP
 
In my experience there is a big difference between salt and mineralisation and the gold fields, i had for a few years a gold bug 2 was great for tiny gold on the surface but take it down the beach and it falsed everywhere i could not get it to ground balance at all
I now run several tesoros and i can get my vaquero to run dead silent in the triangle, but it to suffers on the beach, as does the lobo with its auto tracking, bring out my sand shark and its great on the beach punches deep and fairly quiet, but take it up the goldfields and its a screaming banshee
 
Hi. All. This is all very interesting for me because as you all know I've got a Nokta and have had some of these issues with it. I've also had a number of other VLFs over the years and for me IMHO the Nokta is a different kind of animal in a number of ways. After Steve's comments I now realize I may be running mine a bit high in the gain department because basically with other VLF machines and PIs I have gotten away with it quite successfully. I'ts always been my practice to run as high a gain as possible. Right or wrong I've always thought my machines run more sensitive when set this way. Now it is becoming apparent to me that the Nokta requires a different strategy. There are many things I like about this machine. I believe the techs at Nokta are very clever designers and have potentially come up with something quite different for us detectorists. How well it all works in practical terms.....Only time and using the machine will tell. I'm going to do a bit of testing this weekend armed with my new knowledge gained from this wonderful forum. And a special thanks to Steve for his much appreciated and valued input to the forum. And thanks to Brad for putting up with me and being willing to answer the many questions I throw at him. Regards to all.............Ronnie. :)
 
Excellent information. This is almost certainly the type of discussion end users want and will evaluate the machines capabilities from. Owning a f75 I'm actually very fortunate it has been referenced. Thank you Steve and JP for drawing out the insights needed to make this a credible and honest assessment.
 
I love putting new machines through their paces. I've put my hand up to test here in a range of ground conditions, hopefully Nokta are not out of demo units :)
 
Any one who knows VLF know it is an old technology, one way to check if a machine is better is, if a patent for improvement in the VLF circuit has been applied for as people have fiddled with the basic design for a long time
If a detector is revolutionary then surely there will be patents involved to protect the new design
 
Still a bit confused over the pricing for the Fors Gold, standard package in the US is $999, and in Oz $999, but the Pro package in the US is $1399 but in Oz is $1600 - how does that work? I suspect the pricing was originally mistakenly advertised in US dollars vs Au, as I could have sworn the Pro package was originally advertised here for $1400au, but has since changed to $1600au?? Not having a dig, just trying to clear up any confusion for potential purchasers. :)
 
Hello...all our MSRPs listed on our web site are in USD. FORS Standard-$999 and Pro Package-$1399. Pricing may very in different countries though and this is true for other brands as well. For example, detector prices are higher in Europe versus the USA due to the higher VATs applied. We really do not know the situation in AU and do not want to mislead you so please contact the dealer.
 
the duck said:
In my experience there is a big difference between salt and mineralisation and the gold fields, i had for a few years a gold bug 2 was great for tiny gold on the surface but take it down the beach and it falsed everywhere i could not get it to ground balance at all
I now run several tesoros and i can get my vaquero to run dead silent in the triangle, but it to suffers on the beach, as does the lobo with its auto tracking, bring out my sand shark and its great on the beach punches deep and fairly quiet, but take it up the goldfields and its a screaming banshee

Two very opposing methods of ground cancellation needed for magnetically mineralised and salty soils. The best detector in the world in my opinion that can handle both extremely well is the GPX5000. The Salt Gold timing is truely amazing on wet sand.
 
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