DEEP CYCLE BATTERIES and BUSH POWER

gday condor off topic but i just got a 28lb minn kota boat motor off a guy at work ive been told to get a 104ah deep cycle battery just wondering how much boating or how many hours would i get out of it only pushing little tinny thanks

Typos here: Answer = as A=W/V then the formula is A=10/12 = 0.833 amps, it's on for 5 hours so, 5 x 0.833 = 4.17 AH. So for every similar light that is on for the same time add another 4.17 AH.

phil said:

gday condor off topic but i just got a 28lb minn kota boat motor off a guy at work ive been told to get a 104ah deep cycle battery just wondering how much boating or how many hours would i get out of it only pushing little tinny thanks

Click to expand...

Mate depends on a few things, but I reckon a 28lb minn kota on a small tinny, like say a 3.85 quintrex explorer , in still water, 2 blokes andmfishing gear, probably about 2 days fishing.
Anything bigger than that, in a current, bank on a days fishing, mthats not the motor running continuously though, thats just general use, so many variables, its almost impossible to do it on paper, just useing it is the only way to know for sure.

Have a look at this link
https://www.whitworths.com.au/pages/adviser/minnkota_faq.asp#wi

It states 3+ hours at high speed up to 20+ hours at low.
However there are many variables - weight of dinghy, weight of load (you), current (water), temperature which affects the battery capacity etc.

thanks fellas yeah its only a 10 foot punt ally and im only 85kg

Had my van off mains in the driveway for over a week, it used 29AH. The battery was switched on and no lights or anything else was on other than the battery monitor.

Today's weather was bleak, wet, windy and very overcast, so I switched the 2 x 100W panels on. The controller gradually builds up to Boost stage and was putting 8.5 to 10 amps in. The sun tried to break through for a few minutes but failed, but the output was briefly up to 14.8 amps.

These UV/IR plus visible cells are great, but it also shows me to keep the battery on charge all the time wether mains or solar.

Anyway, winter time in the Golden Triangle is no problem with this setup.

condor22 said:

Had my van off mains in the driveway for over a week, it used 29AH. The battery was switched on and no lights or anything else was on other than the battery monitor.

Today's weather was bleak, wet, windy and very overcast, so I switched the 2 x 100W panels on. The controller gradually builds up to Boost stage and was putting 8.5 to 10 amps in. The sun tried to break through for a few minutes but failed, but the output was briefly up to 14.8 amps.

These UV/IR plus visible cells are great, but it also shows me to keep the battery on charge all the time wether mains or solar.

Anyway, winter time in the Golden Triangle is no problem with this setup.

Click to expand...

Cool, I am waiting for a 60 Amp MTTP Charge controller to turn up because I am going to run 3 x 100 watt Panels

Quoted @ 5 amps each panel on rainy days and 70 Amps per day each in the summer, Also I will be ordering 3 or 4 180 Amp Deep Cycle Batteries and have them split in to 2 banks of Two so I can switch over from one to the other so as not to drain either bank too far to help the battery Life, I have heaps of Solar AA battery chargers and a back up panel for the truck but because the instructions showed you how to hook it up just with Croc Clips that damn thing killed 2 sets of truck Batteries in less than a year because the Voltage was unregulated and putting out 21v+, and then the Blocking Diode broke so now I have to fix that because some fool fitted it the wrong way round on the panel So at night it was draining my Batteries.

John.

Bloody expensive when things go wrong John, that's why I always advocate, do it right, do it once. That is not cheap initially, but often cheaper in the long run.

BTW my 100W panels are rated at (from memory) 6.8A, but I've seen my controller put out 14.8 amps under load in Boost. that's 7.4 amps at the battery per panel.

As I've said before, cheap panels are not always regulated and even when they are not very well. Again you get what you pay for.

A good MPPT controller has circuitry to prevent the battery discharging to the panel. I think I mentioned that mine is a Victron.

A 100W panel will normally be rated at around 6 amps + or - depending on type and quality so when sizing a controller simply multiply the number of 100W panels by 8 to be safe. i.e. 3 x 100W = 24 so a 30A controller is big enough. That's what I run as I left myself the option of increasing my 2 x 100W to 3.

I see a lot of calculators out there, but it largely depends on actual need, type of kit, where you are etc etc. My calculation is this;

To keep battery usage to between 25 and 50% I use an average of 35% (35AH from a 100AH battery). To replace this in average conditions you need a minimum of 200W of solar and 300W in bad conditions (winter time).

The reason I only used 2 panels is because of their type (and expense ) and having a 120AH battery. Because I use a 3 way fridge, I've found this provides me lighting, water pump, 5-6 hours of TV and 12-14 hours of diesel heating within the above % use and my panels have proven to replace this.

Yeah I know what you mean about the expense side of it, So now I have found this company who are very helpful.

here is the company I am dealing with regarding the panels because I am done wasting money on toy town products,

Here is their Panels

http://www.sunstore.co.uk/12v-Solar-Panels-c-286/

And I am buying a couple more 100 watt panels, I bought one so the others will be here next week

At 131.04p = $218.83 AUD, http://www.sunstore.co.uk/12v-100w-Monocrystalline-Solar-Panel.html

Here are the Panel Specs, http://www.sunstore.co.uk/files/pdf/Sunstore 100-12 spec sheet.pdf

Now their MTTP controllers are very expensive So I ordered one from Ebay that I am waiting to turn up, and it has cost me 52.75p = $88.09c AUD including P&P This is it, http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272253921735?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

Now as for my Batteries, The 140Amps cost 110.00 = $183.70c and the 180Amp are 125 = $208.75c, The only thing that is bugging me about the batteries is the weight, Because the 140s are 35kg each and the 180s are 45kg .each

140Amp Battery https://advancedbatterysupplies.co.uk/product/abs-140ah-leisure-battery/

!80Amp Battery https://advancedbatterysupplies.co.uk/product/abs-180ah-ampere/

Due to the weight Issue I found this one below but it is only 135Amp at 120.00 = $200.40c each but the weigh a lot less at 28kg so that's a weight saving of 7kg per battery over the 140amp and 17kgs over the 180s, and another thing is they have multi connector posts which is real handy,
https://advancedbatterysupplies.co.uk/product/advanced-xd35-dual-purpose-leisure-battery/

What do you think is the better way to go regarding the batteries, the only I am not sure about is the 135Amp is Sealed which I am not too sure if that is a good Idea or not because you can't top them up, The good part is it is an ABS Battery.

Thanks mate.

John

condor22 said:

Had my van off mains in the driveway for over a week, it used 29AH. The battery was switched on and no lights or anything else was on other than the battery monitor.

Today's weather was bleak, wet, windy and very overcast, so I switched the 2 x 100W panels on. The controller gradually builds up to Boost stage and was putting 8.5 to 10 amps in. The sun tried to break through for a few minutes but failed, but the output was briefly up to 14.8 amps.

These UV/IR plus visible cells are great, but it also shows me to keep the battery on charge all the time wether mains or solar.

Anyway, winter time in the Golden Triangle is no problem with this setup.

Click to expand...

How do you explain the loss of 29AH over a week with nothing switched on?
Why do you switch your panels off.
Maybe I'm reading wrong, are you saying you usually store your van connected to mains?

Bought our van in 2008 already fitted with two panels and two 110AH batteries on board.
Sits all summer under a storm cover and surprisingly enough sun leaches through to keep the batteries full.
The only time it is connected to the mains is to pull the 3 way fridge down when we are preparing for a trip.
When we travel the fridge is on 12V switching to gas when stopped. We run the generator most evenings for approx. 1/2 hour to power the micro wave and boost the batteries. (9kg gas bottle lasts on average two weeks.)
Sat TV, Humax recorder, LED lighting & 12V water pump for showers. (Detectors, Garmin's & mobiles are charged in vehicle.)
We are now on our second pair of van batteries in 8 years.

Alarm systems and Inverters chew power when they are switched on, A 1000watt Inverter will pull about 0,8 amps when it is left on and even if it is not the battery monitor system will consume power even though nothing else is running,

At a 29 amp loss over 2 weeks =336 hours = 0.086 amps per hour loss which means there is a loss of 1.0357 watts, Also Natural Power Loss could all be part of that, So it really is not that much.

John.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272253921735?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

You may want to pull the cover on this unit when you receive it as chances are it isn't an MPPT controller ................... knock offs all over ebay that are marked MPPT but are in fact PWM and some not even that. There a bit like Bali sunglasses ................... just add what ever sticker to the casing
Search U tube and will show you fakes and what to look for inside.
I got caught ................... Ended up paying about $150 I think for a "proper" MPPT controller.

This mob has the real deal
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VICTRON-...d=100338&rk=2&rkt=27&mehot=ag&sd=171661840930

Bogger said:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/272253921735?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

You may want to pull the cover on this unit when you receive it as chances are it isn't an MPPT controller ................... knock offs all over ebay that are marked MPPT but are in fact PWM and some not even that. There a bit like Bali sunglasses ................... just add what ever sticker to the casing
Search U tube and will show you fakes and what to look for inside.
I got caught ................... Ended up paying about $150 I think for a "proper" MPPT controller.

This mob has the real deal
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/VICTRON-...d=100338&rk=2&rkt=27&mehot=ag&sd=171661840930

Click to expand...

Well you might be right about the fakes and when my one turns up I will check it out because a Guy on YT bought a 20 amp version and its not looking good for me at the moment, The seller Advertised that the Item was for sale in the UK and Free Postage so I ordered it and within a few hours I got a message telling me this.

Quote,

Sorry to bother you.
Thanks for you kind business.
But we note that when you purchased this item, you selected the Free P&P shipping way, right? We are afraid to tell you that this way is only the services from outside UK, that means this way is only for the item shipped from China.
As you know, this item is shipped from UK, and we have list the postage on our ebay, would you mind to pay the postage to us? When we received the postage, we will send your order out timely from UK, or if you are not willing to pay the postage, we understand you, we will send your order out from China, you will get it in about 4-5 weeks, if you think both is not ok, we would like to refund you and cancel this order for you.
Please tell me your choice as soon as you could since your order has been held now. We will not arrange deliver your order without getting your confirmation.
Kind regards! End QUOTE.

So I said to them that their advert says that the Shipping is free in side the UK So why would I need to pay shipping from China if the Item is in the UK ?

And I got this In Reply.

QUOTE:- you do not need to pay for shipping if we ship it from China , END QUOTE,

Anyways when it gets here I will check it out and if it is not I will then Get Ebay to get my Money back,

Check these out because this is the 20 Amp version.... John.

Part 1, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KA3X8XLxWHU

Part 2, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=la-gvy0DfJs

I bought 3 of these http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-150-...379306?hash=item33a567dc2a:g:tWYAAOSwFe5Xzk90 + a 30amp "Victron" controller, cables and joiners for under $1000 for my caravan. I pull out nearly 40amph every night with medical equipment + what ever else we run, lights,tv etc and the batteries are usually fully recharged by mid afternoon even on heavy rainy days.
I checked the output a couple of times on sunny days and it was hitting between 14 and 16 amps
cheers Keith

John,

Had a look at your battery info, they are silver calcium lead acid. They state maintenance free and supposedly have a reduced gas off.

However, Calcium batteries usually require a higher charging voltage and should have a Calcium specific mode smart charger, wether 240VAC or Solar.

I have an aversion to putting anything other than an AGM in an enclosed space (excepting Lithium, but they are very expensive). Improper charging can cause increased gassing.

Also you have differing AH value batteries, it is not recommended to charge different sized batteries in parallel at the same time.

How do you explain the loss of 29AH over a week with nothing switched on?
Why do you switch your panels off.
Maybe I'm reading wrong, are you saying you usually store your van connected to mains?

Bought our van in 2008 already fitted with two panels and two 110AH batteries on board.
Sits all summer under a storm cover and surprisingly enough sun leaches through to keep the batteries full.
The only time it is connected to the mains is to pull the 3 way fridge down when we are preparing for a trip.
When we travel the fridge is on 12V switching to gas when stopped. We run the generator most evenings for approx. 1/2 hour to power the micro wave and boost the batteries. (9kg gas bottle lasts on average two weeks.)
Sat TV, Humax recorder, LED lighting & 12V water pump for showers. (Detectors, Garmin's & mobiles are charged in vehicle.)
We are now on our second pair of van batteries in 8 years.

I had it off mains because I was having concrete work to extend the driveway and deliberately switched the panels off. I do normally leave it on mains. The item using power is my battery monitor which also has a temp sensor and uses a small amount of power. I also was in the van on several occasions at night with lights on. I checked the calendar and it was 10 days unconnected.

I do similar, re charging in bush camps and do run the genny. I do this, again similar to you, for several reasons. I have a shower van, 3 way fridge (on gas out bush) and only 2 x 4.5kg bottles. So I get back to camp run the genny to run the water heater (rather than gas), cook mainly with microwave (rather than gas) and although probably not necessary, ensure the battery is fully charged.

One thing I have noticed when on solar in the drive, is that I do lose a little overnight due to the monitor. So I switch the panels off and use mains, that way I'm guaranteed that when it's not used and covered, the van battery is always full and not cycling. I have each panel protected by a switchable soft start circuit breaker, which I use to isolate the panels when on mains or driving. The Redarc takes care of the driving and I don't like to use 2 different charging sources at the same time.

Nice One Keith,

So that's 450 watts, That's enough for a small town, I am using the 100watt panels partly because I have kept every thing as lower wattage / Voltage as possible, IE my TV/DVD player use's about 50 watts, per hour and I tested my ARB 47Lt Fridge is using about 0.565 Amps Per hour when set to 4*c, Which is not too bad,

Bloody Ebay have been a real pain in the Azz this past month I Ordered a 1.3 lt Stanley flask and the cup was bent and dented and it took them over 3 weeks to send me a new cup and when that got here that had a smaller dent in it too, and then I ordered two 0.72 lt Stanley Food flasks from another company and they sent the wrong colour, I also bought a little Thermo car fridge that looked like one I use to have and the inside is all plastic so it does not cool like the old one did, but the good bit is you can flick the switch and it warms food up to about 60.5*c or 140.9*f which is great for long trips when ya on the road so I don't mind about that one, And now it seems that the so called MTTP charge controller is not even a PVM type and they cause over a 50% power loss compared to the MTTP controllers.

Some days it don't pay to get out of bed.Lol.

John.

condor22 said:

John,

Had a look at your battery info, they are silver calcium lead acid. They state maintenance free and supposedly have a reduced gas off.

However, Calcium batteries usually require a higher charging voltage and should have a Calcium specific mode smart charger, wether 240VAC or Solar.

I have an aversion to putting anything other than an AGM in an enclosed space (excepting Lithium, but they are very expensive). Improper charging can cause increased gassing.

Also you have differing AH value batteries, it is not recommended to charge different sized batteries in parallel at the same time.

Click to expand...

Thanks mate, that's cool, I will buy their biggest AGM's then if you think them others are Cactus, might as well do it right ay. I got good panels to piece together, I think I might buy some Stainless Hinges and make em so they fold away when not in use in the camper or maybe Add a single panel to the roof as a maintenance panel for when it is not in use, Not sure about that bit yet though.

I was going to buy a 2500/5000 or 3000/6000 watt inverter but I have a small 300watt and a 600/1500 surge and a 1000 watt with a 2500 surge so I don't know if it is worth buying a monster like those 2500/5000 or the 3000/6000, Because the bigger the inverter the more power they eat even under no load because that 1.3/1.5 amp draw would run my fridge for 312 minutes.

What do you think of these, any good ? https://advancedbatterysupplies.co.uk/product/advanced-agm-lp120-leisure-battery/

Thanks mate, well done.

John.

I'm always dubious of buying from other countries with items I know little of, especially re warranty and especially if you have to post it back to country of origin to make a claim. I don't know the brand and 500 as a cycle life is quite low. I use Full River from the Home of 12 Volt and yes the cost more. At 25% depth use, I would expect between 2,500 to 3,000 cycles and 10-15 years of use.

Regarding Inverters, I've stated earlier in this thread, for most people up to 300W is acceptable for limited use and keeping battery depth of discharge tolerable. Anything more, use the generator, especially if you carry one anyway.

Keeping the math simple a 2400W inverter will use 200 AH @ 12 VDC (actually more). So if you had 200 AH of battery and wanted to use 25% = 50 AH you could use the inverter for < 15 minutes. Then consider the other use of lights TV etc. You end up with a huge battery bank and a heap of solar to produce what a 30kg 2kVA genny can do with ease.

I guess the question is; What do you need 240VAC for, how often do you need it and for how long each time.

Most appliances can be bought today that are already 12v, they use less power than the 240 equivalent. Or they use 5v i.e. USB etc. It can often be cheaper to replace the item that the cost of powering the 240v item.

I connected 2 x 4 spot power boards together to give me 7 x 240 VAC power outlets and then plugged it into my 150W inverter. I then put my 5000 battery charger, 2 phone chargers, a tablet, my electric shaver recharge, an LED torch and another LED light on charge and it did not trip and in fact had plenty to spare. Anything bigger, I start the genny.

condor22 said:

I'm always dubious of buying from other countries with items I know little of, especially re warranty and especially if you have to post it back to country of origin to make a claim. I don't know the brand and 500 as a cycle life is quite low. I use Full River from the Home of 12 Volt and yes the cost more. At 25% depth use, I would expect between 2,500 to 3,000 cycles and 10-15 years of use.

Regarding Inverters, I've stated earlier in this thread, for most people up to 300W is acceptable for limited use and keeping battery depth of discharge tolerable. Anything more, use the generator, especially if you carry one anyway.

Keeping the math simple a 2400W inverter will use 200 AH @ 12 VDC (actually more). So if you had 200 AH of battery and wanted to use 25% = 50 AH you could use the inverter for < 15 minutes. Then consider the other use of lights TV etc. You end up with a huge battery bank and a heap of solar to produce what a 30kg 2kVA genny can do with ease.

I guess the question is; What do you need 240VAC for, how often do you need it and for how long each time.

Most appliances can be bought today that are already 12v, they use less power than the 240 equivalent. Or they use 5v i.e. USB etc. It can often be cheaper to replace the item that the cost of powering the 240v item.

I connected 2 x 4 spot power boards together to give me 7 x 240 VAC power outlets and then plugged it into my 150W inverter. I then put my 5000 battery charger, 2 phone chargers, a tablet, my electric shaver recharge, an LED torch and another LED light on charge and it did not trip and in fact had plenty to spare. Anything bigger, I start the genny.

Click to expand...

Thanks mate.

Well My TV come with an AC power supply that drops down to 12v DC and it says it's 50 watts

The only High Powered gizmo would be a micro wave and it is a 1000 watts in 700watts output , doing the maths @ 1050w it's going to use 4.375 ah , But on the 77% Setting it is 808.5w, and @ 55% setting is 577.5w and even using it at the 55% setting the most it needs to be on is 6 minutes hence the thought about getting a larger inverter, but for the same amount of money I can get a 1200w pure sine wave generator which might be the better way to go and then I can use my monster battery charger that puts out 35 Amps when charging and 310 Amps when boost starting. I am not sure how to convert the power being used by an AC appliance whilst powering it from a DC supply ?

So I am thinking that running 4 of those 120 Ah AGM batteries might do the job.

And my ARB Fridge uses very little power because it only runs for 10 or 11 minutes out of every 106+ minutes and that is with nothing in it, So it will only get better when full so that's good,

And the only other thing would be the laptop, and low power LED lights, And that just about covers everything, I have Solar Battery chargers for my detectors and I get about 60+ hours using AA's and about 40 hours using NiMh AA's and I have enough solar chargers to charge 20 AA's at a time,

John.