Prospects dim for fossickers - The Age newspaper article.

Saw this article this morning.

Concerning to say the least.

http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/prospects-dim-for-fossickers-20140601-39cm5.html

Victorian Greens leader Greg Barber said the process could be very damaging to river banks and could cause untold damage to archaeological, Aboriginal and historical remains.

''We're talking about large amounts of material being moved around to find a small amount of gold in parks that have been created to protect environmental and historical values.

''These bans are not going to stop you looking for gold with a shovel,'' he said.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/prospects-dim-for-fossickers-20140601-39cm5.html#ixzz33RMftcR0

Clearly someone who has no concept of how to look for gold.... sure, fine we get to use a shovel. How do we get the gold out of the dirt though? With a pan? How is a sluice any more mechanical than a gold pan? Even a highbanker doesn't with the exception of a pump isn't really that much different.

Gold prospecting to many already is a hobby where the gold we find on any given trip wouldn't even cover the costs of fuel let alone make any of us rich. By making it difficult to the point where the amount of effort and difficulty so massively outweighs any realistic possiblitiy of reward would be the death of the hobby.

I know personally I adventure out each trip with no expactations and although the gold I find is not much, its enough to keep me interested. Its hard work but the small amount of gold I sometimes find feels rewarding. To make the already small amount of gold amount to nearly nothing for insane amounts of work would make the hobby not so much fun anymore.

Not great news, but I thought its worth sharing to make people aware changes to our hobby are a real possibility.

Adam

It was spread over pages 2 and 3 in the paper version. Very concerned as if this gets up, use of detectors will probably be next in the firing line. For anyone who witnessed the damage done by the 'natural' flooding in Vic several years ago, 1,000s of sluice operators working a 1,000 years would never have created as much 'damage'. Plus, with all the recent rain, what I call 'God's raking' has moved a massive amount of leaf litter and cleared many a gold bearing slope. If you raked the same amount, the Jolly Green Giant would have your bollox for breakfast.

Time for an Australian wide online and offline petition to show these numbskulls that there are tens of thousands of us voters out there who don't want these draconian legislation's passed.
The only way to possibly get things changed is numbers and lot's of them !!

Yep!!

Sitting in an office does dull the senses and errodes the brain.

Sure like to know who the tree huggers are stirring the pot???

I'm on the mid ground between "to petition......or ......not to petiton"!!!

Sure something needs to be done but timing is everything, unfortunately we need to play their game "a bit"

Any other thoughts????

Interestingly y the local abc brought this topic up this morning just before 9. It was following the outcry at Costerfeild mine coverage. Clearly there's an agenda at play. Frankly I was very angry they did this and will visit then today.

It is like the bully in the school yard looking to beat up the easy target and that is "US".

On a previous post I bought to attention that we all have to be careful,not to give them any cause to jump on us,so I feel that we should keep our hobby as low key as possible.
These people are greatest *&@*& liars that you will ever meet,just read the study into the Box Ironbark,one idiot claimed that he had seen orchid flowers broken by the prospectors swinging a metal detector,on and on with more BS.It would be good to be able to challenge these people,but these treat this like religion,and we know we can speak about that.

Thedigger

FOR YOUR URGENT ATTENTION - PROPOSED VICTORIAN GOVERNMENT LEGISLATION - IMPACT ON PROSPECTING AS WE KNOW IT!!!

It is critical that all forum members (whether they be Victorian or interstate forum members) become organised to combat these proposed Victorian regulations on prospecting. As you would agree we can not afford to be passive and sit on our hands and let this legislation go through parliament. A petition is urgently needed to be signed by all members of this forum and other prospecting clubs/associations throughout Australia in order to get the numbers required to influence politicians, particularly those Members of Parliament who may sit in marginal seats in Victoria - especially with the forthcoming State election looming in November 2014.

For forum members who live interstate and who think they will not be affected, it is only a matter of time when the ripple effects of this legislation impact (i.e restrict your prospecting activities when visiting Victoria!), or worse still this legislation might even be adopted by politicians in your state (as is the case in some states already).

I am asking members of this forum who has the ability and know how to take the lead in developing and promoting on-line petition against the proposed Victorian government legislation banning the use mechanical devices in prospecting such as sluicing and the use of water pumps in streams. The on-line petition would need to be presented to the Victorian Minister for Environment and Climate Change, The Hon. Ryan Smith, MP. I would organise an on-line petition myself, however, I am not confident to do so in terms of using the computer.

Another way we can lobby the Victorian Minister for Environment and Climate Change, The Hon. Ryan Smith, MP, is to either email him ([email protected]) or write to him (Level 17, 8 Nicholson Street, East Melbourne, Victoria, 3002) with your concerns and opposition to the proposed legislation. If all forum members, particularly those forum members living in Victoria, emailed/wrote letters to the Minister, this may be effective in showing our collective opposition to the proposed legislation. You can also lobby by email or by letter your local Member of Parliament especially in advance of the November 2014 state election.

See link for contact details for the The Hon. Ryan Smith, MP http://www.vic.gov.au/contactsandse...rdinates&62c9fdc9-ddbf-4b3d-9060-5bb2c8701958

Another thought is for our forum members, particularly in Victoria, to consider the option to be represented politically at the forthcoming state election. One idea is for the potential alliance with other lobby groups like the sporting shooters groups/4WD groups among others. If this is to happen, we will need someone to take the lead and register a suitable candidate in time for the state government election in November 2014.

It will be good to hear your thoughts and ideas on organising an on-line petition or even perhaps organising/registering a political representative/party in time of the November State Government election.

You can see where it's going - we'll be allowed to use "traditional" tools to preserve the historic and low impact activity of "Prospecting" - living history I would describe it.

At the risk of being called a heretic I'll say that it is the modern High Banker that is the bad boy here... Understand that many people outside our hobby see the High Banker with associated pumps and noise etc, with gravel being furiously shovelled in to it as a "small scale mining activity" and Joe Public is alarmed. Be that as it may however because it falls into the category of a "sluice" what worries me is that two actual historic pieces of equipment that also fall into the category of sluices, the humble and passive "stream sluice", and the Californian Rocker or Gold Cradle will be collectively caught in the ban on sluices and we will only ever be able to see them in books or a museum in the future. For me the term sluice for the purposes of legislation is much too broad and needs delineation. Get involved in the PMAV or similar umbrella association and have your say and shape the future. Don't let outsiders make the decisions that will affect you.

casper

Our current laws here are very liberal, in fact possibly the most relaxed in the country. I for one will fight tooth and nail to keep prospecting as I see fit (inside the current guidelines), as I believe its an excellent balance between "mining" activities and productive prospecting. Not everyone wants to swing a detector, and the methods of extraction and refinement are modern versions of traditional methods. This diatribe that we are somehow responsible for environmental degradation is lunacy, and does not stand up to scrutiny. The swaying of public opinion is paramount here, let's be proud to be prospectors, and the modern version of our forefathers who worked under conditions which were very difficult. Blanket bans will be on the agenda unless we are vocal and are shown not to be pushovers. I will not cower or worry, I will prospect and protest.

That article is alarming. I was out on Sunday and I found more rubbish and destruction to the bush from other users of the area than from prospectors. I'm all for banning prospecting or reducing our rights as long as the same can be applied to other users of the bush, fairs fair.

Here we go again,
We may as well just give up every thing we believe in and shove our heads in the sand.
The greens don't have any idea.
(archaeological, Aboriginal and historical remains) I don't see how using a h/banker will damage the 3 described listed items. We dig in the gullies etc and using a pump to move water is no different than the natural flow of the creek.
Lets stand tall on this one, in a hundred years from now our past time will be regarded as historial. go figure.
This cannot happen, no way.
Brad...

Prospector B said:

That article is alarming. I was out on Sunday and I found more rubbish and destruction to the bush from other users of the area than from prospectors. I'm all for banning prospecting or reducing our rights as long as the same can be applied to other users of the bush, fairs fair.

Click to expand...

write him a letter

and write to any other entity such as newspaper " letters to the editor" etc

can anyone find an email address for Greg Barber ?

I imagine i it shouldn't be to hard to track down, but I'm sure its an uphill battle to get him to properly see issues from a prospectors perspective, He's very rigid in his views. A quick google search will put you in the frame, Hrs fought long and hard on pro exclusion. Metropolitan pollie with a serious green streak, there's really no common ground or compromise.

i do as i please, its a free country, i am not harming anyone or anything...

to the death!!!!

Easy to organize an online petition ... Did the same when my local council wanted to ban dogs from our beach gopetition.com/petitions/save-dustys-beach

Just need to find out more about what is actually being proposed ... the basis for the proposals and then an articulate response

Is anyone politically connected ... I would like to get a copy of the draft working paper and source documentation

Then we need to start working on every MP ...

SUPPORT PROSPECTING OR BE PANNED AT THE NEXT ELECTION!

Being away working for 2 weeks at a time isnt easy on keeping up to date on what's going on with these proposed regulation changes, in tuesdays (june 3 2014) edition of the Bendigo Advertiser on page 2, the ady printed pretty much about the ban on sluicing, i do recall harping on about this some time ago when they so called opend up new areas to prospect but stuck stiff regulations on how we could prospect, once these environmental groups get they're teeth into something they just keep running with until every aspect of propecting is banned.
So upon reading this article i wrote the below letter and sent it to the Editor of the Bendigo Advertiser and Cc a copy to PMAV, if this legislation passes what will be next, im sure out there somewhere some greenie is trying the find out if a gpx5000 emits radio waves into the earth that upsets the inner bowel workings of a simple scrub worm!!!!!!


"NOT WITHOUT A FIGHT YOU DONT!"
I am writing in response to the article which featured in Tuesdays June 3, 2014 edition of your paper on page 3, headlined "Prospects are dim for fossickers"
I and others find it very concerning that the state government sees fit to ban a prospecting method such as sluicing, under the recommendations from the Victoria Environmental Assessment Council.
The terminology of sluicing can be broken down into three styles of gold extraction.
Highbanking, this involves a small portable box that has a series of bars across it, that when used correctly traps gold at certain points, water is ran across the top of these bars (called riffles) then dirt is placed on top of a skid plate and then is washed down with water from a small pump where the gold separates from the host dirt and becomes trapped along the edge of the riffles.
River sluicing, this is where a box of similar design is placed in a river and the same process takes place, the only difference being no pump is needed the flowing river is used to separate the gold from the host dirt.
Trommeling, in this style of gold recovery dirt is placed in a rotating barrel, water is pumped up to the trommel the rotation of the barrel agitates the host dirt and then passes through a screen where sized materials then travel down a sluice box where the riffles separate gold from unwanted rock.
All of these three methods designates "sluicing"
Not one of these methods introduces harmful, dangerous, or toxic chemicals into our water ways, yes i dig holes in the search of gold, but the DIRT DUG is PUT BACK in the holes, its the exact same method as when i am out with my detector, the dirt always goes back, and identically the same for panning, you dig a hole you put the dirt back in the hole.
I and others, do not leave gapping holes in the base of our local creeks or streams, or pump that much water and move that much soil with our shovels and picks that we are going to choke out any marine life with water sediments.
Sluicing is a fine art, an even steady supply of dirt is placed through these gold recovery machines, it is not rip tare bust style of moving dirt that we saw many years ago when dredging was legal.
So how dose this affect the environment and our community, washing of dirt in a creek dose not silt up any more than a boat on eppalock towing around a skier, or a fishing boat trawling along the edge of a bank trying to catch a fish, should we ban them now too.
To build a simple sluice is by no means cheap, you need to purchase metal based materials, hoses, pumps, shovels,picks,carpet,and pans for the finished product, where do we get these from, local business of course, so the impact to the community is much larger than the environmentalists have given thought too, now lets go and include the travelling prospectors, who set up camp at a caravan park or motel, they not only travel to the one of two prospecting shops in Bendigo they also purchase food, drinks fuel, maps, and whatever else they may need to enjoy themselves whilst they visit this great city of ours, doing a time old tradition of fossicking for gold, wether that be detecting, panning or sluicing.
Don't lock us out of doing what we enjoy as tax payers and are entitled to do, we purchase a licence to fossick and run within the guide lines set down by the governing bodies.
In closing i say to you V.E.A.C stop making mountains out of mole hills, take into account the affect on the community, and the fact that as voters we have a voice, we are entitled to fossick for gold and gems,its our right, so i say to you V.E.A.C "not without a fight you don't!"

Well said DWT...please post a reply if you get one.

Bring on a petition and lets get the ball rolling and stop this rubbish campaign before they get too much momentum and support from other sleazy pollies.

I like it "Not without a Fight you Don't!"

Cheers

Here here Dwt, excellent response. In my gold musings and after writing a letter to the local ABC (see above post) I got to thinking about all of this. Obviously I'm much more concerned with this state, and will visit the local members to talk over some options, but I wondered about the possibility of a show of hands to express to the wider community and political groups just how many of us there are out there. Online petitions are a great start, and membership of the Pmav is great, but maybe our forefathers had something to offer. They knew an assembly in a coordinated way displayed just how strong they were as a group, and got results. Perhaps a "prospectors day" can be proclaimed, whereby every voice is collected and sent out at once. Online petitions submitted, letters written, emails sent, followed by a few hours prospecting and local interactions.

Think about the impact that would create, creating a day we can all be heard and the buzz it would create. Flooding the local media with a targeted response may just prove we aren't pushovers and we will stand up for our rights. They may want change but we are not there yet.

Ok so i decided to email hon mr ryan smith attached to this email was a copy of the letter that was sent to the bendigo addy and the pmav so now i guess we will have to sit back and see what happens............ 8)


Date: 04 June 2014 11:35:40 AM To:
Ryan Smith<[email protected]>
Good morning Sir.
My name is (removed my name), I reside in Bendigo Victoria and I am deeply concerned about the proposed changes in the laws regarding sluicing in our creeks rivers and streams here in Victoria.
An article which featured in the local Bendigo Advertiser (June 3 2014 page 3) went onto criticize recreational prospectors in our efforts to recover gold by form of sluicing.
Sluicing is a method used by myself and countless others to recover gold from low lying areas of creeks rivers and streams, a method that has been used by our pioneering ancestors and modern day prospector. The article states that Environmentalists have criticized the use of sluicing which they say could disrupt the habitats of endangered wildlife and damage vegetation and soil.
By using the sluicing method we are simply digging already deposited dirt from the waterway system, doing our best to leave the smallest footprint possible as we exercise our right as licensed prospectors in the pursuit of gold.
As licensed prospectors we take great care and pride in our bush to the extent where we are starting program's such as "clean up where you prospect" an initiative undertaken by prospectors to remove dumped rubbish and dispose of at recycling centers at our own expense, myself and others are currently experimenting with a design to help alleviate the small amount of silting from sluicing by constructing silt catch trays, all of this has been in the pipework for months before we became aware of the proposed changes in prospecting laws.
Myself and others strongly believe that prospecting via sluicing is a safe, affordable and environmentally sound way to recover gold, as taxpayers, prospecting permit holders, and voters, we are entitled to exercise these rights within the bounds set down by the governing bodies.
Please find the attached letter below which has been sent to the Editor of the Bendigo Advertiser and PMAV.
We believe very strongly in this style of prospecting and we are prepared to fight this proposed change to the end.
In closing Sir, I would ask that you assist us in blocking this proposed change in prospecting law.
Kind Regards.........

when i eventually get the design sorted for a simple, easy to carry silt catching system up and running i'll post pics on the DIY section of the forum for one and all to copy and use if they wish i'll pop up asection on there now and open it up to the ideas of members to assist in the design and fabrication stages, thanks guys, and remember the "diggers oath" "We swear by the Southern Cross to stand truly by each other and fight to defend our rights and liberties".............bring the noise.....

DWT and Johnb - Great stuff!

Where do we sit, is a moderator going to draft up or organize a petition.

You guys are absolutely right, how many tens thousands of people will this effect, and once our elected officials realize this they will back down. Our threat needs to be a vote change, and we can only do this by lobbying industry and threatening state governments.

We also have the option of asking for funds and support from large companies that rely on prospectors for business. Minelab ( Codan ), 4x4 places, Garrett etc.

I am happy to offer advertising help via FB ads if we can collectively get some funds together, we can reach 10,000 people per $25-$35. This is war on a very primal front for many Australians. We were built on prospecting in a sense.

Ok rant over......