Advice wanted for solar/battery/charger in our new (2011) Jayco Swan

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Hi guys, I've been reading through the other threads on solar/deep cycle/chargers etc. and the more I read the more confused it becomes.

Last Sunday we purchased a 2011 Jayco Swan Outback camper, it has what looks to be a 100 watt panel on the roof feeding into a controller next to the 130 Ah AGM under the front seat, the battery is stamped 2014.
The panel still shows it's charging going by the LED indicator on the controller but I'm yet to test how many volts/amps it's feeding as I haven't had a chance to get in there properly yet.
There is no lead running from tow ball (Anderson) to battery yet so it appears the battery is just relying on the solar panel for charge.

So anyway, on Monday after work I plugged a battery tester into the 12v cigarette socket on the outside and it showed 10.4v, I crawled into the camper and realised I'd left the 12v switch on so the sockets were powered, I went to the shed and got my Maston 10 amp smart charger and connected straight to the battery expecting it to be completely flat, the charger went straight to Bulk as expected but changed to Absorb after about 5 mins, I thought to myself that it must still be good but put down the 10.4v at the far socket as just a voltage drop and thought all was still good, I left the charger on and headed off to work yesterday and returned this afternoon, I opened the door to the camper and immediately smelt a rotten egg or sulfur smell, quite strong and the charger was in Maintain mode but the fan on the charger was going.
I immediately turned off the charger at the wall and went to my work van and got the 4 gas analyser as I knew something was not right (I work in confined space on natural gas) and sure enough the CO reading went through the roof when I stuck the hose in the door.

I lifted the roof of the camper as far as I could in the garage and opened a couple of hatches for circulation and will get the van out tomorrow as I have a RDO, I called Battery World to see if they knew what might cause it and they suggested a dead battery which would make sense given the camper was stored in a garage, I expected to replace the battery anyway.

Soooo... Now that I have a cooked AGM it's a good opportunity to get the camper set up correctly.
I want to set this camper up as simple as possible for our needs which consists mainly of 12v lighting and charging of phones, detector batteries.
Currently my 100 series Landcruiser has only the single crank battery, I was intending to set it up as a dual battery/deep cycle but so far haven't felt the need because when I get away solo for a few days I only run my Engel 45 ltr and have a 160w folding panel out and it does me nicely so far, when I used to take the old camper out it had a 105Ah AGM in the tool box and I'd connect via Anderson from rear of LC100 to trailer while travelling then disconnect when set up and connect my 160w panel direct to a controller next to the AGM battery.
I modified my 160w panel to run through the supplied controller when connecting to my Cruiser or bypass the controller and run direct to a PWM controller next to the AGM in the old camper box, wasn't the best but realised now after reading threads here that the MPPT or DC/DC charger would have been better.

Now that we have the new (second hand) camper I'm looking at it as a blank canvas to set up, the panel on the roof would be from factory so 8 years old at least, I'd prefer to use a fold out panel as I have better control to keep it in the sun.
After reading through the threads and getting a sore head I've come to the conclusion that to suit my needs I would go with this setup:

- utilise my 160w fold out panel (or purchase 250w) and bypass the supplied controller
- run Anderson plug from tow hitch to battery compartment inside camper
- buy and fit a DC/DC or DC/Solar charger in battery compartment (or BMS)
- buy a new deep cycle, most likely a 150Ah AGM or Crystal
- have a batt monitoring display within camper

I currently have in my shed a unused big crank battery 4X4/Marine which I purchased from SCA a couple of years ago, can't remember why I bought it but it gets regular sessions on the charger to maintain it, I intend on putting it in a battery box and taking it along on solo trips and connect it to my rear Anderson at the tow ball (just taking the LC100), I am doing a 5 day detecting trip in early Nov so this should power my fridge and charge my phone and GPX battery with the 160w panel keeping charge to both batteries while away, while maybe not ideal it has to be better than just running the crank battery as I normally would, I'll be monitoring the voltage throughout the day(s).

I also have the 105Ah AGM from my old camper which is stamped 2008 but it seems to still be holding charge well, I will put this into the new camper for a 6-7 day trip with the wife at end of Oct, I plan to run cable from AGM to tow hitch so I can get some charge from vehicle while travelling to and from but also connect 160w panel while camped for the 6-7 days.
I have just ordered 10 new LED globe replacements for the 6 interior roof, 2 bed light and 1 external 12v lights in the camper.
The fridge in the camper is 3 way so will run it on 12v while heading out then swap to gas when set up, I'll also take the Engel 45 ltr and probably run it off the LC100 with the second battery connected via the Anderson at the rear and monitor each day, the vehicle will get some use during that time to explore and top up batteries.
This is all just a short term way to get through my 2 weeks leave utilizing what I currently have but really want to set up the camper properly to suit our needs, again it's mainly just 12v lights (LED), phone and detector battery charging so the aim is to keep it as simple and cheap as possible but still be effective.

Would the suggested setup be suitable or am I missing something?
I've always gotten by with minimal panels and Dual batteries (deep cycle aux) in the past but used vehicle during camps, this time I intend to set up for longer stays.
Showers and ovens are independent and gas.

Happy to look at dual deep cycle batteries in the camper if needed, but then we would need more solar to power them and so on and so on....
We were talking about buy a Honda or Yamaha 4 stroke 20i genny as a back up solution for charging which would probably be a preference to second deep cycle and panel.

1570011554_20190929_100757.jpg
 
If you want a good reliable starting point that can be carried over into your later final build, then its best to start out with a good DC-DC+Solar Charge Controller, or a full blown BMS if your budget allows. Sized to suit whatever battery(s) you have or will have later.
I have a semi-fixed 100W panel in my roof-rack, & just recently bought a 120W fold-up panel that can be used as a windscreen sun shield. I picked up 2x double-adaptor solar plugs from Jaycar to hook up the foldup panel when needed in parallel (220W total), & on the long weekend just gone here in WA it worked a treat!
The DC-DC controller makes things easy, prioritising solar input, but takes extra from the alternator when needed (& available)
I also have a dual voltmeter which shows at a glance the Aux battery voltage & solar input voltage
 
I run a ctek dc/dc charger set up in my camper. With my set up I can charge when towing from the tow vehicle. When at camp the battery in the camper gets charged via solar. Your 160w panel should be more than adequate for the job on long stays. The set up you are looking at will work well
 
Awesome guys, thanks.

shakergt, that sounds simple and pretty much what I'm hoping for. I'll do some quick research on the ctek and might even try and get one before I head off in a couple of weeks.
 
My Jayco Penguin has 160W solar on the roof and two 120Ah batteries inside.
It is isolated from the car's 12V system (except for powering the fridge whilst travelling).
I have never run out of 12V power on my travels (lights, video, radio, charging detector, phone and computer etc).
I do carry a CTek 240Vac charger - just in case, but have never had to use it.
 
Awesome Bigwave, that's what I like to hear.

I bought the Ctek 20A D250SA with display last night after more research so looking forward to that turning up.
I'll run a battery lead up the draw bar today for towing power and solar connection whilst parked up.
The 105Ah AGM will go in today as a short term temporary solution for the upcoming weekend trip in 8 days time then fit the Ctek and think about a new battery(s).
I'm working away most weeks and only home on weekends of late so time is the frustrating part, today being the exception as I have the day off and can set up the camper and enjoy the day.
 
Given the high CO reading you obtained, you should check that your battery compartment is still vented to the outside world to ensure there is no explosive build up of gases or corrosion of wiring in the van, this holds true for when stored and in use. While AGM batteries aren't as bad for gas release, they still require venting.
You never know what modifications previous owners have done.

from https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/health_concerns

Ventilation

Charging batteries in living quarters should be safe, and this also applies to lead acid. Ventilate the area regularly as you would a kitchen when cooking. Lead acid produces some hydrogen gas but the amount is minimal when charged correctly. Hydrogen gas becomes explosive at a concentration of 4 percent. This would only be achieved if large lead acid batteries were charged in a sealed room.

Over-charging a lead acid battery can produce hydrogen sulfide. The gas is colorless, very poisonous, flammable and has the odor of rotten eggs. Hydrogen sulfide also occurs naturally during the breakdown of organic matter in swamps and sewers; it is present in volcanic gases, natural gas and some well waters. Being heavier than air, the gas accumulates at the bottom of poorly ventilated spaces. Although noticeable at first, the sense of smell deadens the sensation with time and potential victims may be unaware of its presence.

As a simple guideline, hydrogen sulfide becomes harmful to human life if the odor is noticeable. Turn off the charger, vent the facility and stay outside until the odor disappears. Other gases that can develop during charging and the operations of lead acid batteries are arsine (arsenic hydride, AsH3) and (antimony hydride, SbH3). Although the levels of these metal hydrides stay well below the occupational exposure limits, they are a reminder to provide adequate ventilation.
 
Thanks for the info bicter, I've just setup the camper out the front, I had switched the charger off as soon as I smelt the odour yesterday, the camper was packed down at the time of charging so ventilation was poor.
I suspect it's due to the battery being dead for some time as the people I bought the camper from hadn't used it for a long time and it was parked in their garage not being charged.
Me putting it on the charger while working away for 2 days was probably not such a good idea in hindsight but I'm just glad the wife didn't poke her head in there while I was away.
I had expected to replace the battery and solar panel before we bought it so no issues there.
Just glad I had my 4 gas analyser on hand as someone not aware of the consequences of gasses in confined spaces may have continued to crawl into the camper to check the battery charge which would have been fatal going by the odour and reading on my Gas Alert Max XT II.
 
One win for the day, swapped the old 130Ah AGM out and put my old 105Ah AGM in and it was 13.2v before connecting, now 14.4 - 14.5v connected so it looks like the panel on the roof is still good which is a bonus, holding that charge with 4 roof lights on too.
 
ProspectorPete said:
Thanks for the info bicter, I've just setup the camper out the front, I had switched the charger off as soon as I smelt the odour yesterday, the camper was packed down at the time of charging so ventilation was poor.
I suspect it's due to the battery being dead for some time as the people I bought the camper from hadn't used it for a long time and it was parked in their garage not being charged.
Me putting it on the charger while working away for 2 days was probably not such a good idea in hindsight but I'm just glad the wife didn't poke her head in there while I was away.
I had expected to replace the battery and solar panel before we bought it so no issues there.
Just glad I had my 4 gas analyser on hand as someone not aware of the consequences of gasses in confined spaces may have continued to crawl into the camper to check the battery charge which would have been fatal going by the odour and reading on my Gas Alert Max XT II.

Pete,
The point I was making was, even with the camper closed up, that the CO and other gases shouldn't have been able to build up if the ventilation was adequate. Hopefully, you've checked that out and remedied the situation as needed.
 
Hi bicter, I've got all the panels up under the front couch where the battery lives, Jayco seem to mount them there as standard and the ventilation is poor or non existent because each compartment is pretty well sealed, I will be drilling 2 x 25mm holes through each internal compartment which will allow air flow from the front roof winder to small vent on the other side which I'll have to fit, then when either packed away in the garage or setup camping I just leave the winder flap open to create air flow right through the front under storage compartments.
It's the only way I can see to do it without going into the fridge cavity which would defeat the purpose I'd imagine.
 
In many modern vans/campers, the battery lives under the bed or under the dinette seats. There is very little in the way of ventilation as they usually use AGM batteries. AGMs in good condition, charged properly won't be an issue re gassing off in these installations. Mine is in a battery box under the dinette and no apparent vent.

If you intend to run an Anderson from the vehicle to the camper, make sure that you either use the IGN sensor of the DC-DC, a H/D solenoid or other in the circuit.
You need to address making sure the camper charging when connected does not deplete your cranking battery.

Re panel location, some prefer to put the van in the shade and the panel in the sun. I don't, as many trees giving shade are gums and I've seen too many branches fall to want to risk the investment. :)

Pete, don't forget that if the battery is full, the panel won't show much in the way of output re Amps.
 
condor22 said:
In many modern vans/campers, the battery lives under the bed or under the dinette seats. There is very little in the way of ventilation as they usually use AGM batteries. AGMs in good condition, charged properly won't be an issue re gassing off in these installations. Mine is in a battery box under the dinette and no apparent vent.

If you intend to run an Anderson from the vehicle to the camper, make sure that you either use the IGN sensor of the DC-DC, a H/D solenoid or other in the circuit.
You need to address making sure the camper charging when connected does not deplete your cranking battery.

Re panel location, some prefer to put the van in the shade and the panel in the sun. I don't, as many trees giving shade are gums and I've seen too many branches fall to want to risk the investment. :)

Pete, don't forget that if the battery is full, the panel won't show much in the way of output re Amps.

And that is where the manufacturers appear to be quite happy to play with peoples lives....
AGM's can generate dangerous gases.
AGM's can go bad.
Battery chargers can fail and overcharge batteries.
People replace AGM's with lead acid deep cycles.
All battery storage containers should be vented to free air and be free of ignition sources.

This thread is a good example of how things can go wrong with batteries and why AGM's should be externally vented and sealed from the living area.
 
Thanks for the relies bicter and Condor22, very much appreciated.

Well, today was slower than expected, went off to SCA to get some cable for the drawbar but only had 14mm so walked away dissaponted, my LC100 going into the auto elec next Friday to have a redarc electric brake controller fitted and I'll ask him to also run 35mm to the rear with Anderson plug (currently got 14mm run to the rear) and ask for a 5m length of 35mm cable with Anderson plug at one end so I can fit it to the drawbar, hopefully the new Ctek charger will be here by then also and ready to fit.

Great tip there Condor22 about the use of the IGN sensor on the DC-DC, I will make sure one of those suggestions is in place when I wire it in.

Tried the 3 way fridge out on gas and it seems to work ok so that's good to know, had planned to do more to it today but it was 30 deg at 11:30am and I thought why not have a beer and sit and relax, the wife made lunch and we sat for hours in there enjoying the good weather and pretending we were away already, that was about as the work part went but still a good day and learnt where the lifting arm cables are located and a few other things while tinkering around.
 
FYI I buy my cable from my local auto sparky, it's Australian made and the only cable he uses. When I ask for 6mm sq, it really is 6mm sq etc. I pay a bit more than SCA and I notice the difference when terminating or soldering.

Another consideration with external wiring is UV degradation of the insulation. Some doesn't last in our harsh climate. Of particular importance with fixed solar installs.
 
condor22 said:
FYI I buy my cable from my local auto sparky, it's Australian made and the only cable he uses. When I ask for 6mm sq, it really is 6mm sq etc. I pay a bit more than SCA and I notice the difference when terminating or soldering.

Another consideration with external wiring is UV degradation of the insulation. Some doesn't last in our harsh climate. Of particular importance with fixed solar installs.
Ok that's good to know.
I've been reading that you should use 35mm wiring from main car battery to the tow hitch and again through to the aux battery in the van.
I don't mind paying for it if it is the correct and best to use.
Would you agree to use 35mm Condor22 ?
 
I have a C7, the wiring to run my 3 way fridge (18' van) is 6mm all the way to the fridge. My car puts out 14.4V average, by the time it gets to the fridge it's 12.9V.

12.9V is a good voltage for a 3 way fridge. BTW that is the voltage with the fridge running, so under 13-14A load. Put a 30A fuse under the hood and good to go.

I cut out battery charging for the van as it drops the voltage below 12 with the fridge and the fridge didn't hold temperature too well. But I have 200W of panel to do that when driving anyway.

35mm wire is approx 6.6mm dia copper + the insulation. Up to you, but overkill in my opinion. But if you want to use 35mm use it.

The van wiring is 6mm from manufacturer.
 

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