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#1

XLOOX
Member
From: Inglewood Fault, QLD
Joined: 21 August 2019
Posts: 13
Member
19 September 2019 08:30 pm

Folks, I will soon be buying a 2nd PI - in principle for the wife wink. 90% of the time it will be used for gold prospecting.

Basically I am tossing up between another TDI SL and a Minelab SDC2300.

I mainly prospect forests & slatey dry creeks ie lots of wattle, lantana & high banks to negotiate. I have used a couple of the GPX series but whilst the performance was awesome the weight was excessive, bungee straps were a nightmare and I couldn't use the big coils properly in the undergrowth anyway.

Never used a SDC2300 but looks pretty good on paper.

My question is Is the sensitivity/depth & mineralised ground handling of the SDC2300 significantly superior to the TDI SL?

If it is worth double the price of the SL then maybe my wife will get my SL and I will get the SDC smile, else we will have matching SLs and $2k in the pocket.

Advice appreciated from those who have used both.


1985-2005 Garretts ADS Deepseeker - now THATS a slow learner !
2017- current Whites TDI SL +Sadie , TRX

#2

ronniecruisin
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Joined: 28 July 2014
Posts: 259
Member
19 September 2019 11:32 pm

I don't run an sdc but have handled one. In my opinion the SL will still be lighter for your wife to use. I'm using a TDI pro oz with a detech 15x10 mono open coil and even though the pro oz is bigger than the SL its still a joy to swing. Did own an app once. Similar to the SL and was even easier to swing. Add to that being able to use any coil you choose and the SL is the better choice imho. I know you can get a coil kit for the sdc but that is more cost.!


Oh Well!...It's not the end of the world.....That'll probably happen tomorrow!

#3

ronniecruisin
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Joined: 28 July 2014
Posts: 259
Member
19 September 2019 11:33 pm

That's SPP.


Oh Well!...It's not the end of the world.....That'll probably happen tomorrow!

#4

Muk
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Joined: 19 June 2016
Posts: 406
Member
20 September 2019 07:43 am

Sdc way to go sniffs gold from any where cheers Muk.

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#5

ronniecruisin
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Joined: 28 July 2014
Posts: 259
Member
20 September 2019 09:36 am

True. Sdc is very sniffy for tiny gold. But you'll be spending a lot of time retrieving those tiny bits and you'll need a lot of em to get your 2 grand extra outlay back. Bung a small coil on your SL and it'll find those tiny bits almost as good. Plus its lighter and well balanced as you've already realized Im sure. big_smile


Oh Well!...It's not the end of the world.....That'll probably happen tomorrow!

#6

karelian65
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Joined: 16 January 2017
Posts: 97
Member
20 September 2019 01:38 pm

The SDC is an excellent gold sniffer and new coil options are becoming available to make it even more versatile. In my own humble opinion get the Minelab and enjoy both machines. Be confident that all bases have been covered.. The price of the Minelab new vs the White's means I would look at used/secondhand options to make the price difference less unpalatable. Don't be in a hurry, take the time to find yourself a good deal. A new White's is not that far from the price of a used Minelab, something to consider.. Answer based on the knowledge that the new machine is used 90% for gold prospecting in the circumstances described. Good luck, Karelian.

Last edited by karelian65 (20 September 2019 01:48 pm)

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#7

ronniecruisin
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Joined: 28 July 2014
Posts: 259
Member
20 September 2019 06:46 pm

Or a cheaper and completely different option. You could get your wife a new Whites Goldmaster 24k. Yes it is VLF but apparently its getting very good reviews. Also punches 50% more voltage to the coil and has an all new ground balance setup. And from reports I've seen it handles highly mineralized ground really well. Plus it has iron reject which has a proven track record of being quite a good system. I actually had a GMT in the past and this machine is basically the new version of that. Just another thought to mull over. Good luck with whatever you go with... Regards... Ronnie. big_smile


Oh Well!...It's not the end of the world.....That'll probably happen tomorrow!

1 user likes this post: Ship of fools

#8

Ship of fools
Member
From: Mackay, QLD
Joined: 04 March 2018
Posts: 370
Member
20 September 2019 08:31 pm

I will back what Karelian65 has said, the sdc is light it folds up so compact and is waterproof.
When getting around the tight areas having the knuckle on the edge of the coil instead of the center is also a bonus, getting under bushes and between rocks.
You already have a TDI no need to double up.
Matt T


Fools go where angels fear to tred.
HMV $5k, White Tdi, Garrett’s Infiinium and Max, XP mi-4 pinpointer, pots, pans, picks, shovels, and a lot of blurred thinking!

1 user likes this post: mxt sniper

#9

XLOOX
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From: Inglewood Fault, QLD
Joined: 21 August 2019
Posts: 13
Member
21 September 2019 01:03 am

Thanks Folks, appreciate the responses.

Yeh I was debating with myself the "already have a TDI- don't need to double up " vs " TDI works fine- why muck around" and didn't come to a conclusion, hence the post.

I hadn't thought about 2nd hand but that is a definite option. Since an SDC would be only 5 years old max I guess they should be not too banged up. I'll keep an eye out.

I would be most interested to know if anyone has used the Goldmaster 24K in seriously mineralised Australian ground as that for me is really important.

Thanks again.


1985-2005 Garretts ADS Deepseeker - now THATS a slow learner !
2017- current Whites TDI SL +Sadie , TRX

#10

mxt sniper
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Joined: 20 June 2013
Posts: 156
Member
21 September 2019 08:16 am

Qed could be another option, its doing very well now, debugged, and great ground balance, maybe add a 8x6 sadie to it or a smaller flat wire coil and you would be in business for way less than a sdc. I am not a fan of the TDI in any configuration. Tiny gold is not its forte.


GPX4500, Elite 14" Mono, 14X9 NF Evolution, 11" DD Commander, MXT Pro 8x6 SEF, Detech 6"DD Excellerator, Detech 4.5"DD Excellerator, SP01 Enhancer, GM1000

3 users like this post: pinfire opals, Ridge Runner, Ship of fools

#11

PhaseTech
Phase Technical
From: Adelaide, SA
Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 1,937
Phase Technical
21 September 2019 03:22 pm

SDC is actually heavier compared to a GPX with 8" coil, if you don't count the battery pack that you wear on your belt.
For poking around creek beds where the detector gets a lot of lifting, the SDC definitely benefits from a good harness set-up.

A fee differences between TDI SL and SDC:

The TDI SL is lighter.

SDC is more sensitive to tiny pieces, and even more so in higher mineralised soils

TDI can go deeper on larger gold

TDI needs to be manually ground balanced, compared to Auto tracking on the SDC.

But at the end of the day, Muk's comment is a nice summary


Agent for Minelab, Nugget Finder, Nokta & Makro, Quest, Detech, SteelPhase - Phase Technical Website

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#12

ronniecruisin
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Joined: 28 July 2014
Posts: 259
Member
21 September 2019 06:39 pm

Actually the TDI can and does find tiny gold. I've personally seen them do so. 6" coil? No problem. What many people don't seem to realize is that the basic design of detectors hasn't changed all that much. Filtering and software and minor tweaks have made them more sensitive to smaller gold. Add to that better designed coils which also contribute much to the machine. Don't understand this obsession with tiny gold other than the easier bigger stuff is becoming harder to find. It's worth cents. Harder to see even when you've detected it. And takes up a lot of time. There is one reason and one only these machines are coming out in droves! The makers and dealers need to keep flogging machines to keep the market alive. Now back to the Goldmaster 24k which is actually a good example when you look back at the GMT which by today's standard is now a very old machine. However the GMT has the points on the board! It's success at finding small gold is legendary.! From what I've read a couple of long time users of the GMT who have the 24k are saying its a vast improvement on the GMT. More powerful with way more features. Also many of the big nugget finds of the past were detected with VLF machines. If your coil is over a nugget ( not fly sxxxt) just about any machine old or new will find it. Gold is not hard to find. It's easy to miss! argh tongue


Oh Well!...It's not the end of the world.....That'll probably happen tomorrow!

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#13

Muk
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Joined: 19 June 2016
Posts: 406
Member
21 September 2019 09:52 pm

Sdc cheers Muk.

1 user likes this post: mxt sniper

#14

XLOOX
Member
From: Inglewood Fault, QLD
Joined: 21 August 2019
Posts: 13
Member
21 September 2019 10:05 pm

Hi Phasetech - thanks for the response - you are another member whose posts I have read deeply for past couple of years - they are always good.

I am wondering if you have ever run a TDI SL & SDC over exactly the same mineralised piece of ground and if so if you have any comments to make as to stability, depth etc?

Reason I am asking is that I love that with the SL ultimately I can always find a setup to manage the ground but for me using the “Big Gun”ie turning Conductivity switch to Low, is really a last resort as I am then kissing goodbye to ANY chance of a decent nugget.

A 1000oz lump came from 5km from where I am (and it had thousands of brothers & sisters of +2 oz) so I am reluctant to go Low unless I cant get a stable threshold with just gain, GB & a little delay. I find that winding gain back to 6, delay up to 12 and finding that GB sweetspot then going a fraction over nearly always dampens most ground response at the expense of depth loss. I would rather lose 40mm depth on 1 gram nuggets though than pass over a 1oz one and not hear a thing.

But that approach doesn't work on the most mineralised ground ( always the best looking of course) so I am left with the big gun and just chasing small gold ( still way better than nothing !!)

I am wondering though if the SDC has similar foibles in the way it handles mineralised ground or if it uses another approach/technology with better or worse results ?

NB: mineralisation handling was the reason I originally didn't consider VLF but sounds like I need to read up on the latest there....


1985-2005 Garretts ADS Deepseeker - now THATS a slow learner !
2017- current Whites TDI SL +Sadie , TRX

#15

ronniecruisin
Member
Joined: 28 July 2014
Posts: 259
Member
21 September 2019 11:09 pm

Hi xlookx. Phasetech will probably have his own take on this and as I've not owned a sdc I'm sure he can answer some of your question better than me. As to your TDI You should really be always running in ALL. Don't be concerned about the warbley tone. Believe me if you hit a good target you'll hear it. You do get used to hearing through the threshold. I'm running a pro oz which does not have the filtering an SL has so its quite noisy. I had one when they first came out and had forgotten how warbly they are. Only took me a few days and I'm having no problems at all now. I can easily pick a tiny lead shot through the noise so don't let those nice big nuggets escape you. Regards.... Ronnie?


Oh Well!...It's not the end of the world.....That'll probably happen tomorrow!

#16

XLOOX
Member
From: Inglewood Fault, QLD
Joined: 21 August 2019
Posts: 13
Member
21 September 2019 11:44 pm

Thanks Ronnie, I am glad to hear your view about "hearing thru the threshold warble" as it aligns with what I experience - generally hot ground is giving a broader wavering signal whereas targets sing unmistakably - short & sharp and I can normally "tune out" the ground warble in my brain.

It is just in some places there are too many really hot rocks that sound oh so sweet and after digging a dozen I cave in and go Low.

I always read about careful listening for that just audible break in background level but my air & ground tests with the SL show that for pretty much all size targets the difference between a waver that I would probably ignore and a screaming signal is only about 10mm depth even on 0.5gm Au buried 220mm. So I ignore most wavers and if sus scrape an inch of dirt off.

If I dug all signals with a background waver I wouldn't get 10 ft from the car in a day. Of course on the very rare occasion I find a patch then its time to go 10us, 10 gain and dig wavers. Have probably left loads of Au in the ground with this approach but you get that. I'm in it more for the fresh air anyway:)


1985-2005 Garretts ADS Deepseeker - now THATS a slow learner !
2017- current Whites TDI SL +Sadie , TRX

#17

ronniecruisin
Member
Joined: 28 July 2014
Posts: 259
Member
22 September 2019 10:56 am

Hi. XlookX. Hmmmmmm. You must have very hot hot rocks. Don't have problems with em myself. Got some pretty hot ones here in Bendigo but haven't had trouble using my oz. With gold you should really be in 10us all the time or your risking losing gold. Also don't know where you are situated but here in Bendigo and other parts of Australia our gold is generally quite pure. Can often be 22k. Soooo. Even relatively small bits can produce a low tone. This is the main reason you should stick to all with your conductivity. Now if you are bothered by hot rocks and they are a problem then you may not like a VLF as they love em compared to a PI. You may want to ask a dealer if the 24k handles em better than previous machines if you are considering one. Only reason I suggested that machine was because of the rave reviews by GMT owners. The ones that have one seem to be very happy with em. Also the balance and lightness is a huge bonus. Personally Im over the bungee cord setup. With good gold harder to find these days who wants to lug a machine around all day and be uncomfortable.? No this little black duck! big_smile tongue


Oh Well!...It's not the end of the world.....That'll probably happen tomorrow!

#18

XLOOX
Member
From: Inglewood Fault, QLD
Joined: 21 August 2019
Posts: 13
Member
22 September 2019 03:06 pm

Hi Ronnie,

I am based in the Gympie region but have detected in quite a number of places within a 1000km (and years ago in Yilgarn & Bathurst). I’ve run into fair patches of hot rocks in Gympie, Blackall Ranges, Mt Morgan, Clermont and a few other places

Ok 10ft might be a wee exageration smile but I would say at least half of each outing I would be unable to achieve a silent threshold even if I wanted to. Now general ground mineralisation and a wobbly threshold is a slightly different issue to hot rock discrimination but my experience is the worse the ground the more likely there are hot rocks as well.

The hot rocks I have found seem to fall into 3 broad types as in the photo.

The shiny black one is super heavy. It is hematite but must have a little magnetite in it as it is attracted to the pick magnet but not enough to lift it. This type I can tune out by going to 12 delay ( at the expense of small Au) if I need to, but actually doesnt sing too well, just enough to make me stop n dig.

The middle one I think is a banded ironstone nodule and sings ok. Not magnetic. I cant tune these out. If I break them then the signal quickly degenerates and only the major piece(s) sound at all.

The bottom one looks the most innocous & causes me the most grief. It is a very light non magnetic stone that seems like a hard fine sandstone/ coarse porcelain. When I break it the inside is always brighter red/orange than the outside which is pink/grey. They sing like a canary & each half sings too. I need to break it down to quite a small size before signal degrades.

In all cases I am not bothered finding a few hot rocks, like old brass & lead, I look at them as a sign that the area is not fully worked over, I just hate walking away myself from, or going Low in, an area that often looks better than surroundings but has a carpet of them.

I have read in a few places that the SDC is good in mineralised ground - just not sure if that means SDC is better than SL or not in handing ground. I wouldn't want to pay signif more to go backwards in that area, even if SDC more sensitive to small gold.

1569124315_qld_hot_rocks.jpg


1985-2005 Garretts ADS Deepseeker - now THATS a slow learner !
2017- current Whites TDI SL +Sadie , TRX

#19

ronniecruisin
Member
Joined: 28 July 2014
Posts: 259
Member
22 September 2019 03:38 pm

Hi.XlookX. Can't remember exactly but I think there are positive and negative hot rocks. Might be the wrong terminology. No doubt someone else may correct me here. But years ago John Candy from minelab was showing how I think it was a gpx4000 could ignore hot rocks. I've had a couple of 4000s. Great machine. I think he may have had it in sensitive smooth. Anyway I found lots of gold with mine. One of the big advantages of any PI is the abillity to ignore most hot rocks. Yours must be doozies! One of the typical above types apparently are difficult to get rid of. Minelab machines in general are very good at running quiet so maybe you might have better luck with one. Hopefully someone who has a sdc will pipe in with an answer to this question. Regards... Ronnie. smile


Oh Well!...It's not the end of the world.....That'll probably happen tomorrow!

#20

StayyerAU
Member
Joined: 30 March 2019
Posts: 128
Member
05 October 2019 07:19 am

Gday

I have owned an Sdc 2300 since they first came out, and don't see it as a competitor to the Gpx, but as a detector that will definitely get some types of gold that the Gpx will not, so I use both the sdc and the gpx in conjunction with each other, the gpx as my main machine with larger coils for general detecting and covering open ground and the sdc for cleaning up and also patch hunting rough terrain or scrubby rocky areas.

I dont have a Whites Tdi but I would imagine that from the comments I have read, really small gold is not its forte, but like the gpx deep gold and larger nuggets are, so I would imagine that the sdc would compliment the Tdi in the same way, the sdc is very good at small specimens and small nugget that are low in volume, spongy or full of holes that the gpx wont see.

Some people say that this type of gold is a waste of time to detect but I can tell you by experience that even though you have to get a lot of it to make the weight its more often than not the indicator to better gold being in the area, some of the patches I have found with the sdc have happened after walking the spot initially with the gpx and it has not found that most important first indicator piece, some places have given up some really good nuggets and oz's of gold that would have been missed without the use of the sdc to find that first piece and alert you to the possibility of a patch in the area.

cheers

stayyerAU

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#21

ronniecruisin
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Joined: 28 July 2014
Posts: 259
Member
05 October 2019 10:44 am

Yes. That's a good point you make there. A high frequency VLF will also find that type of gold. Would be a cheaper and lighter option than an sdc.


Oh Well!...It's not the end of the world.....That'll probably happen tomorrow!

#22

StayyerAU
Member
Joined: 30 March 2019
Posts: 128
Member
05 November 2019 08:01 am

Gday

Yes a high frequency VLF will find very small gold but unlike the sdc they will not handle the very highly mineralised soils in some areas, but you also have to remember that vlf detectors were the predecessors to the pulse induction machines, they would find shallow gold and small pieces on or near the surface but struggled with depth and running quietly on bad ground, initially the pi detectors killed everything else on the goldfields on big gold, but people stated to complain that they didn't get the small gold that they did with the vlf detectors, that's when they started modding the pi detectors, like the sd2000 adding two higher frequency chips (hot chip mods) to make it more sensitive to small gold.

They have come a long way since then, and I have worked places where even a top of the range pi detector will struggle to cope with the ground using dd coils, no hope with a mono coil at all, up until the advent of the Gpx4500 with the enhance mode since then you could work these spots with mono coils, a vlf could not cope and was far too noisy to be effective at all, from experience I would never favor a vlf detector over a pi detector for hunting gold, although I do use a vlf sovereign gt in the goldfields looking for coins and relics and it only because of its discrimination abilities due to the amount of rubbish around.

cheers

stayyerAU

#23

mudgee hunter
Member
Joined: 02 January 2017
Posts: 1,531
Member
05 November 2019 10:16 am

I Wish they would have a second version of the SDC available. Hip mounted to take some weight off them.
My gold bug2 is unbelievably light when you slide the box off the shaft and belt mount it.
The box is way off the ground /dust/dirt when you put the shaft down whilst digging targets.

Last edited by mudgee hunter (05 November 2019 10:19 am)

#24

ronniecruisin
Member
Joined: 28 July 2014
Posts: 259
Member
05 November 2019 10:52 am

Yes. You can't beat a PI for depth in mineralized ground. Personally I agree. Heavy machines are a pain to use which is why I'm loving my Whites pro Oz. Well balanced and easy to swing. And the SL as you know is even easier. Have you looked at the Nokta Gold Kruzer. Yes it is VLF but from what I've seen it seems to be a very capable Gold Finder. Nenads Video on this forum shows some great results on species. It's very high frequency and may be an interesting choice for you. Easy to swing too and great value for money. Regards... Ronnie. big_smile


Oh Well!...It's not the end of the world.....That'll probably happen tomorrow!

#25

mudgee hunter
Member
Joined: 02 January 2017
Posts: 1,531
Member
05 November 2019 07:24 pm

I think it would be 99% equation if you where to put both detectors side by side and said " pick only one free prize of the two".......
Budget always makes people compromise...
Some compromise.... but won't admit they did so...


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