250w Bi-Fold Solar Panels Strip Damage

Hey guys,

I purchased 250w bi-fold solar panels for a bit of retail therapy and hoping when things improve on my end I can utilize unit sometime over the coming summer.

I was looking forward to receiving my panels and yeah you know it right? Shit happens, yeah all too often!

Delivery guy brings it right into the hallway with a trolley and unloads, I sign for parcel and he is off.

At this stage I could barely contain myself, a bit like when I found my first speck of >> :goldpan: except this time there was no jig but I did have a smile from ear to ear.

Parcel remained in the hallway till the next day when I returned back from work and my boys did the unboxing. Soon my happiness turns into disappointment.

When examining solar panels closely with a torch, I discover a lot of the vertical strips are severely blistered so the foil coating has clearly delaminated and is not isolated but widespread even oxidization with visible rust looking with a magnifying glass. Some of the vertical strips are not even connected to the top or bottom thicker horizontal strips as they have been possibly overstretched during assembly and damaged.

ShitBay seller wishes to give me a partial refund and keep the panels but I don't want them as I have lost confidence in their product based on the the visual physical damage and my own research (YouTube and Google) with the panels loosing output when in this state but then again, I don't know if in fact they do loose output but hey I could be wrong but if it looks like a dog, It cant be a cat, right? Buy hey, Ive been surprised before! I'm happy to keep them if in fact, performance in not effected.

Photos are not the best but it's all really obvious at the least.

Seller states in communications that the damage was caused by transit? I'm silly but not an idiot! I am offended they even have the clout to suggest it! Also the seller states the panels usage and performance will not be effected by this damage.

I'm a bit stressed about it all with the panels coming from QLD to Syd as getting them back is going to be a mission from my end so if anyone can chime in and offer some advice and ammunition so to speak as I have not replied to seller yet, gathering all my info to make informed decision for course of action.

FYI I don't know much about solar other than the basics so some technical info would be welcomed if you are inclined, hell any info would be welcomed!

My hump day happiness >> arty: turned into doomsday and the end of the world >> :skull:

I have had $hit looking panels run fine, but at the end of the day YOU have to be happy with your purchase.
If you paid with paypal, just threaten the seller you'll take it up with them.

If they offer a good discount (50%) I personally would take it.
It's hard to see from pics, but if it has a connection then it's probably not going to loose one, as it's all vacuumed and glued in.

But...... hey it's all made in china......... all just a gamble.
No chinese made products last well, some last as long as the bull$hit warranty, other last three times as long, but most rarely more than twice the warranty, sadly all this stuff ends up in landfill.
Good manufacturing is dead now as the prices just can't compete.

Mate as long as you paid with paypal it's as simple as go into your ebay account - items purchased, click on return item and that's it. Seller has to organise return and ebay will give you back your money ................ even if he doesn't organise return post. If he doesn't ask ebay and they will send you a return post label ................... which you simply print it out and stick on box and drop at post office. No cost no drama
Relax and no stress :Y:

What is your S/C current???

Can you please define '$hit looking panels' if you don't mind.

If performance is not effected then I wont worry about discount.

Not sure what you mean by 'but if it has a connection then it's probably not going to loose one'.

I have an understanding on how the solar cell is created and functions however, the information is a bit grey regarding the thin vertical strips function that runs top to bottom x 2 of each cell and connecting to thicker horizontal strips at the top and bottom. These vertical strips are where my issue is if in fact there is an issue at all regarding effected output performance.

Ditto on that last paragraph.

Occasional_panner said:

I have had $hit looking panels run fine, but at the end of the day YOU have to be happy with your purchase.
If you paid with paypal, just threaten the seller you'll take it up with them.

If they offer a good discount (50%) I personally would take it.
It's hard to see from pics, but if it has a connection then it's probably not going to loose one, as it's all vacuumed and glued in.

But...... hey it's all made in china......... all just a gamble.
No chinese made products last well, some last as long as the bull$hit warranty, other last three times as long, but most rarely more than twice the warranty, sadly all this stuff ends up in landfill.
Good manufacturing is dead now as the prices just can't compete.

Click to expand...

Not concerned with returning if for the sake of aesthetics however, if in fact visible strip damage is causing output performance then yeah they will be going back but its not that simple at the moment to get 18.1KG panels repacked and dropped off at the post office. Long winded story that last one, perhaps for another thread :|

Bogger said:

Mate as long as you paid with paypal it's as simple as go into your ebay account - items purchased, click on return item and that's it. Seller has to organise return and ebay will give you back your money ................ even if he doesn't organise return post. If he doesn't ask ebay and they will send you a return post label ................... which you simply print it out and stick on box and drop at post office. No cost no drama
Relax and no stress :Y:

Click to expand...

Simmo said:

What is your S/C current???

Click to expand...

Errr, umm scratching my head.

Layman's terms please or better still, English :Y:

If it helps any, the sticker on back is for one side of panel so x 2 otherwise Layman's terms please regarding 'S/C current' or better still, English

S/C is short circuit.
Use a multimeter to test it.
Negative probe is connected to COM socket, and positive connected to A socket (usually on the left side)
Set the meter to Amps and put the probes into the output wires of the solar panel when it's in full sun angled direct to the sun.
You should see close to the listed SC current of 7.63.
Don't leave it connected too long as the internals of the multimeter will get hot and fry, you just need 5 seconds to test.

Those spots to me appear to be where they were soldered together, perhaps in a hurry or without enough heat, without looking at it in person it's just too hard to tell from those pics, they may be perfectly fine, it's the connection between the tabs which is the important part.
The worry with bad soldering is it can cause a "dry joint" where it appears to have a connection and it works just fine, but some time down the track it can, not always but can possibly let go. Extremes of temp and movement will make this worse, so probably a portable panel will be tested more than a rooftop panel.
Hmm actually thinking about how you will use it, you probably should return it.
Fixing a dry joint on a circuit board is really easy, BUT impossible in a panel as it's all encased.

The way they are made is from assembling "tabbed cells" together, like these https://www.ebay.com/itm/80-Short-T...ue-Pack-12V-Battery-Charge-STDT-/200716848541
The quality of the assembly will determine the longevity of the panel, the individual cells will last 30-40 years, but if the soldering is crap you'll toss it after two trips perhaps.

With all that being said I have never seen one fail, but it does happen.

I know 4wd super centre have good deals and you can pick up and inspect. They are very good with warranty issues too

If it looks like this https://www.4wdsupacentre.com.au/pr...rtable-light-weight-camp-ready.html#gallery-5
That's normal.

Here is a bit more info on how they are made https://www.robotshop.com/letsmakerobots/how-make-your-own-solar-panels

BTW test each panel separately, if the junction box has the two panels in parallel it will double the amps.
Series connection you add the volts but the amps stay the same.
Parallel connection you add the amps but the volts stay the same.

Yeah its definitely those joints you write about. Two of the vertical strips on one of the top cells doesn't even have a connection to thicker horizontal strip.

4WDsuperenter ones look competitive in price but they come with a PMW controller. If I go down that road, I might buy an MPPT 20Ah controller from eBay and swap it over.

First thing I want to do is test the panels that I have so I'm gonna have a look on Saturday if I can hire a multimeter.

Sorry for my lack of knowledge but can you kindly squiggle a few lines and maybe some notes regarding connecting multmeter probes to controller and so on. Dr Google didn't give me much on 'COM socket' and 'A socket' :/ What about sticking + red probe into + red end of Anderson and - black probe into end of - black end of Anderson. Can even do it off the back on MPPT controller where the black and red are screwed in or more like blue and red cables in this case.

If I cant get a hold of a multimeter by Saturday then I'm gonna have to can it and start thinking about sending it back however warranty states something about having it tested and a 20% restocking fee or some sh1t like that :N: so see how I go.

Two panels are junctioned and connect to MPPT controller so essentially S/C current 7.63 x 2 = 15.26 output or close to it if panels are producing optimally.

Occasional_panner said:

S/C is short circuit.
Use a multimeter to test it.
Negative probe is connected to COM socket, and positive connected to A socket (usually on the left side)
Set the meter to Amps and put the probes into the output wires of the solar panel when it's in full sun angled direct to the sun.
You should see close to the listed SC current of 7.63.
Don't leave it connected too long as the internals of the multimeter will get hot and fry, you just need 5 seconds to test.

Those spots to me appear to be where they were soldered together, perhaps in a hurry or without enough heat, without looking at it in person it's just too hard to tell from those pics, they may be perfectly fine, it's the connection between the tabs which is the important part.
The worry with bad soldering is it can cause a "dry joint" where it appears to have a connection and it works just fine, but some time down the track it can, not always but can possibly let go. Extremes of temp and movement will make this worse, so probably a portable panel will be tested more than a rooftop panel.
Hmm actually thinking about how you will use it, you probably should return it.
Fixing a dry joint on a circuit board is really easy, BUT impossible in a panel as it's all encased.

The way they are made is from assembling "tabbed cells" together, like these https://www.ebay.com/itm/80-Short-T...ue-Pack-12V-Battery-Charge-STDT-/200716848541
The quality of the assembly will determine the longevity of the panel, the individual cells will last 30-40 years, but if the soldering is crap you'll toss it after two trips perhaps.

With all that being said I have never seen one fail, but it does happen.

I know 4wd super centre have good deals and you can pick up and inspect. They are very good with warranty issues too

If it looks like this https://www.4wdsupacentre.com.au/pr...rtable-light-weight-camp-ready.html#gallery-5
That's normal.

Here is a bit more info on how they are made https://www.robotshop.com/letsmakerobots/how-make-your-own-solar-panels

Click to expand...

yas00_Au just go to your nearest Auto shop or electronics store & buy a cheapy multimeter. as cheap as $20 at SuperCheap Autos
https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/search?q=multimeter&segment=1&page=1
And theres even 1 for $10 at Jaycar Electronics
https://www.jaycar.com.au/tools-test-equipment/multimeters/digital-multimeters/c/7AA

Just brought a GENUINE MPPT controller on Ebay recently ............... $120

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Victron...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

The cheapo one's as below ............... don't get sucked in as there are others look almost the same. Plenty of U Tube vids showing the one's to avoid

[video=480,360]https://youtu.be/THHkmwfbOJQ[/video]

Makes sense to some degree on my end, so in this case the bi-fold is in parallel with junction and therefor when testing off MPPT, output should be as stated in previous post S/C current 7.63Ah x 2 panels = 15.26Ah? If working in optimal :sunny: conditions that is.

Occasional_panner said:

BTW test each panel separately, if the junction box has the two panels in parallel it will double the amps.
Series connection you add the volts but the amps stay the same.
Parallel connection you add the amps but the volts stay the same.

Click to expand...

Yeah I've been reading up and comparing multimeters tonight and I'll duck out Saturday morning and purchase one but my understanding is the cheaper ones are only DC 10A and MPPT controller was stating 20A on listing (not sure of that either as there is nothing to indicate that on front of controller) so if testing both panels from controller it wont suffice or am I missing something?

EDIT: Oh so it should be fine if testing a single panel at 7.63Ah if multimeter is DC 10A but not 2 as the S/C current 7.63Ah x 2 panels = 15.26Ah or again, am I missing something?

Ded Driver said:

yas00_Au just go to your nearest Auto shop or electronics store & buy a cheapy multimeter. as cheap as $20 at SuperCheap Autos
https://www.supercheapauto.com.au/search?q=multimeter&segment=1&page=1
And theres even 1 for $10 at Jaycar Electronics
https://www.jaycar.com.au/tools-test-equipment/multimeters/digital-multimeters/c/7AA

Click to expand...

That is a really sexxxy looking controller there Bogger, what are you running into that and to charge what if you don't mind me asking?

I just love watching people who are enthusiastic, quirky, eccentric and master of their trades or professions just like your guy in the video. More so when I come into contact with these types in real life, its an honor and an absolute real pleasure :Y:

Bogger said:

Just brought a GENUINE MPPT controller on Ebay recently ............... $120

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Victron...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

The cheapo one's as below ............... don't get sucked in as there are others look almost the same. Plenty of U Tube vids showing the one's to avoid

[video=480,360]https://youtu.be/THHkmwfbOJQ[/video]

Click to expand...

yas00_Au yes you need to be mindful not to exceed the capacity of the multimeter. Another option is to drop into an electronics repair business & ask them to run a quick voltage/current test on each panel. There would most likely be a nominal fee for this service.

You are right Bro! if its a 10 amp meter, then test one panel at a time!
Or just drop into an auto elec???
Far out, if it was my shop, I'd test it for free and see you on your way...
Bet that next time you want stuff, you come to me first for a quote??!!

Don't get hung up about mppt or pwm, in the small systems like these they make so little difference it's simply not worth spending the extra money. Pwm will do perfectly well.
If you have never used a multimeter before maybe a better idea to handball the job.

I'd be happy to test it for you mate but I'm down in Melb.
If you do want to do it, you'll need to open the junction box at he back of each panel and test the output of each one.
Or a very rough way of doing it would be to cover half with something that completely blocked out the sun and test each half at a time. This will work as the panels will be connected in parallel.
Sun will bounce off the ground too so don't just leave it folded in half and test that way, you need to completely block the sun from each side while you test the other side.

If you did test it by blocking a side at a time you can just put the probes on the terminals like this.

Block one side, test the amps, then do the other. Don't leave it on too long as it will fry the meter just 5 sec or so.

yass00_Au said:

That is a really sexxxy looking controller there Bogger, what are you running into that and to charge what if you don't mind me asking?

I just love watching people who are enthusiastic, quirky, eccentric and master of their trades or professions just like your guy in the video. More so when I come into contact with these types in real life, its an honor and an absolute real pleasure :Y:

Bogger said:

Just brought a GENUINE MPPT controller on Ebay recently ............... $120

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Victron...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

The cheapo one's as below ............... don't get sucked in as there are others look almost the same. Plenty of U Tube vids showing the one's to avoid

[video=480,360]https://youtu.be/THHkmwfbOJQ[/video]

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Not sure on the sexy but certainly quality :Y: Basically have one panel on vehicle roof that's run thru a DCDC unit and use this controller to connect other panels to either camper or AGM battery in vehicle if fixed panel on vehicle is not keeping up with demand. Basically it replaces the cheap / useless controllers that most of the cheaper panels come with. Running a couple of fridges along with water pump and lights etc in camper. You really need to set up depending on the needs of what you plan to do ? One or two nights, then almost anything will suffice, but camped up for weeks on end becomes a whole different scenario. Many things come into account, as an example the power required for running an 80 litre fridge in Vic winter with ambient temps of 15 C is far different to what's needed for running the same in FNQ at temps over 40 c

Just as OP has said PWM - MPPT not really the big issue as long as it's a quality controller that is working as it should be will do the job.