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#26

XIV
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Joined: 08 June 2013
Posts: 964
Member
31 August 2013 07:42 am

Ag Man wrote:

I take my hat off to you for having & being able to research this to this depth & length. I honestly do.
If I was you & was able, I would seriously set up a meeting with the PMAV( meet with Rita - not just @ a local branch) & forward your findings.

If that fails to get anywhere then get yourself a group of prospectors together who are prepared to put it on the line. Set up on a waterway that is on the list in a rather public location & start panning and sluicing away. Somewhere like the Thompson river at the Walhalla Bridge.
You would definitely raise attention of the ranger & take it from there where it leads.

Maybe most of us are like sheep & if a piece of paper says we can't do something, then we won't. I don't know...

I do know that prospecting to me is one of my hobbies(& only that - a hobby to me).  I struggle enough just to get out there to pan or sluice for 2hrs a month. I like most of the sheep just arn't able to or willing to get so deep in a battle with rangers, gov. departments, police, court & lawyers etc. because we got caught doing our hobby in a place that we've been told not to.
Maybe it is going to take that to get to the bottom of it? I don't know.

Start off with meeting with PMAV, then take it from there.

I don't have the capabilities(time, finances, more time & more $ - like most) to fight the system. If you or anyone is able - give it a crack & test out what you say. 

Call it weak or what but I will tho, just follow the rules(even if they are just a list on a frequently asked questions page from a government department with no laws seemingly backing them up) & do my bit of panning without fear of prosecution.

i wouldn't worry to much about Walhalla, as i have been prospecting up there for 15 years with no problems from parks
even had one help me carry my stuff down to the river and help me set up yikes

If that fails to get anywhere then get yourself a group of prospectors together who are prepared to put it on the line. Set up on a waterway that is on the list in a rather public location & start panning and sluicing away. Somewhere like the Thompson river at the Walhalla Bridge.
You would definitely raise attention of the ranger & take it from there where it leads.

If you want to make attention go to main street Warrandyte and do it in the Yarra.
parks WILL be all over you there


One can never be wrong at doing the right thing.

1 user likes this post: IsThisGold?

#27

Marked
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Joined: 29 August 2013
Posts: 337
Member
31 August 2013 11:19 am

In all honesty, I have spent an evening and a half perusing the details of the various Acts that seem to apply, all of which anyone can access on the internet.

I have anecdotal evidence of what actually occurs with rangers in some areas on the list, the advice on the DEPI website, and my common sense (the skill of which I can only attest to from a biased point of view).

What I was truly hoping for was someone "in the know" to point me at where I and all the other questioners should be looking to set us straight once and for all.

One thing is for certain, though; practice a destructive form of prospecting, leaving excavations that can't or won't be back-filled, and you can and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.

With that in mind, it may be better to leave all this as a grey area so that fewer prospectors head into the areas on the list; otherwise that small percentage that you get in any group may well and truly stuff it all up for the rest of us responsible hobbyists.


"The Sun's not Yellow, It's Chicken." Bob Dylan - Tombstone Blues (Highway 61 Revisited{1965})

1 user likes this post: Ag Man

#28

Ag Man
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From: Newborough, Vicco
Joined: 06 January 2013
Posts: 1,039
Member
31 August 2013 11:56 am

Marked wrote:

With that in mind, it may be better to leave all this as a grey area so that fewer prospectors head into the areas on the list; otherwise that small percentage that you get in any group may well and truly stuff it all up for the rest of us responsible hobbyists.

That's a good call Marked.

If in doubt - stay out of the listed waterways


GS10 Highbanker, McKirk sluice, Garret pans, yabby pump etc., Whites Coinmaster 6000D

#29

PaulFritz
Member
Joined: 01 August 2013
Posts: 58
Member
02 September 2013 11:56 am

Still no reply from PMAV and reply from DPI was that they forwarded my email onto the specific area that looks after this...

#30

misscadillac1964
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Joined: 29 August 2013
Posts: 115
Member
02 September 2013 12:50 pm

OUCH! glad I read this. ahh that takes a million places of my to do list hmm


She who dies with the most toys wins smile

#31

Ag Man
Member
From: Newborough, Vicco
Joined: 06 January 2013
Posts: 1,039
Member
02 September 2013 02:17 pm

PaulFritz wrote:

Still no reply from PMAV and reply from DPI was that they forwarded my email onto the specific area that looks after this...

I do hope you get a response soon.

If you've found a loophole then I recon they'll tighten the ropes quick smart.

Please keep us updated or any response.

Cheers - Marty


GS10 Highbanker, McKirk sluice, Garret pans, yabby pump etc., Whites Coinmaster 6000D

#32

Marked
Member
Joined: 29 August 2013
Posts: 337
Member
02 September 2013 08:52 pm

Found this somewhere on the interwebs that makes things a little clearer in my own mind:

Public land management, crown land management and DEPI
The 8 million hectares of public land that exists in Victoria is managed by a number of different bodies. The Department of Environment and Primary Industries (DEPI) has a major land management responsibility. The main types of public land linked to DEPI to oversee includes:

    National Parks, State Parks, and other parks – land to be managed and protected under the National Parks Act 1975 and National Parks (Marine National Parks and Marine Sanctuaries) Act 2002
    Crown land reserves – land reserved for a variety of public purposes under the Crown Land (Reserves) Act 1978
    State forests – land to be managed and protected under the Forests Act 1958
    Unreserved Crown land – land which may be sold or occupied through the issue of various types of leases and licences under the Land Act 1958

As overseer, DEPI may allocate the management of Crown land to others to manage on its behalf. Once Crown land has been placed under the management of another land manager, that manager is then responsible for day to day management, improving, maintaining and controlling the land for its intended use, although DEPI may provide advice and assistance to them. Typically these other managers are Parks Victoria, local government, other government agencies, committees of management and trusts.

I get the feeling that it is largely up to the DEPI how they decide to manage the land on "the list", and if they decide that prospecting isn't allowed, then it isn't...unless you get the OK from Parks in your particular area of interest who do the actual managing and policing in most areas.


"The Sun's not Yellow, It's Chicken." Bob Dylan - Tombstone Blues (Highway 61 Revisited{1965})

#33

WickedWaz
Member
From: The Rock, NSW
Joined: 07 April 2013
Posts: 87
Member
02 September 2013 09:16 pm

After reading this thread, I did some research about Reedy creek on the Web. I found this page from Eldorado museum. So we should be able to pan in this area. What do you think?

www.eldoradomuseum.com/el-dorado/woolshed-valley/


Garrett AT Gold, Garrett Pro Pointer, sieves, 2 pans, 1 combo high banker and river sluice. Enjoying the yellow fever search..

#34

Marked
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Joined: 29 August 2013
Posts: 337
Member
03 September 2013 12:44 pm

Tentatively...

The Museum Board is not a government department...but a private organisation. Any OK to prospecting by them would not stand in a court of law if it were against the wishes of those managing the land on behalf of the DEPI...

Really need a yes or no from Parks ranger in that area given my current understanding of what I have read, but being locals, you would hope that they are publishing correct info on their website.


"The Sun's not Yellow, It's Chicken." Bob Dylan - Tombstone Blues (Highway 61 Revisited{1965})

#35

WickedWaz
Member
From: The Rock, NSW
Joined: 07 April 2013
Posts: 87
Member
03 September 2013 07:02 pm

Marked wrote:

Tentatively...

The Museum Board is not a government department...but a private organisation. Any OK to prospecting by them would not stand in a court of law if it were against the wishes of those managing the land on behalf of the DEPI...

Really need a yes or no from Parks ranger in that area given my current understanding of what I have read, but being locals, you would hope that they are publishing correct info on their website.

Yes I understand this fact,  but along with this and the fact that the area is heavily prospected.  I believe it would be thrown out of court.  Imagine how many tourists would have been misled. Also the local authorities must be allowing it to happen,  the area is very popular.

Cheers
Waz


Garrett AT Gold, Garrett Pro Pointer, sieves, 2 pans, 1 combo high banker and river sluice. Enjoying the yellow fever search..

#36

gavfromoz
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Joined: 02 September 2013
Posts: 673
Member
04 September 2013 10:32 pm

It's time these old laws were repealed or amended for todays times.  There are old laws too that state a person cannot walk barefoot on a Sunday as well as it being mandatory to have someone walking in front of a horse and cart with a lantern at night or a red flag during daylight hours.  It may sound ridiculous but it's still law, it has never been repealed.

Have a look at the NSW Traffic Act from 1906, you will have a good laugh.  I guess as Ag Man's signature says ... If it's not broken - fix it until it is.  Same probably goes for these old laws too smile


The best way to predict the future is to create it and because of this, the floggings will continue until morale improves

#37

shannon
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From: Morwell, VIC
Joined: 23 October 2013
Posts: 48
Member
30 October 2013 11:27 pm

its all a load of crap really! why cant we prospect where we want! mad


Home made two level high-banker, Angus Mackirk grubbsteak sluice,Garret deluxe gold panning kit, Turbo pan, Garret AT Gold, 80 Series Land Cruiser

#38

loamer
Member
Joined: 20 July 2013
Posts: 1,893
Member
30 October 2013 11:36 pm

For my fellow Victorians - if you have issues with access, rules & regulations I would suggest you join your local PMAV group and get involved. Our PMAV fees go towards submissions and the like to Government and the PMAV represents ALL our interests at these levels.

"The Prospectors and Miners Association of Victoria is a voluntary body established to protect and enhance the rights and opportunities of those who wish to prospect, fossick or mine in the State of Victoria, Australia."

See link: http://www.pmav.org.au/

1 user likes this post: Ag Man

#39

PaulFritz
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Joined: 01 August 2013
Posts: 58
Member
11 November 2013 08:35 am

1384119276_pmav.png

Not a high priority on the PMAV list to do unfortunately

#40

Teemore
Member
From: Melton West, VIC
Joined: 18 September 2013
Posts: 929
Member
11 November 2013 05:55 pm

shannon wrote:

its all a load of crap really! why cant we prospect where we want! mad

Hi Shannon,
Think you should really consider your stance, unfortunately if we all ignore the work of a few things WILL turn to crap.
Those that give their time to lobby on our behalf should be applauded and thanked, without a bit of dedication  by these few the Gov't could/would listen to the lobbyists that would love to shut down Parks to exclude almost all activities (detecting/panning etc being amongst those).

Appreciate their efforts,
Thanks guys.


If you don't stand for something ..... You'll fall for anything !!
To be old and wise you must first be young and foolish.

#41

gcause
TrackIT Software Pty Ltd
From: North Brisbane, QLD
Joined: 07 October 2013
Posts: 1,073
TrackIT Software Pty Ltd
11 November 2013 11:26 pm

Only legislation I was aware of was the Wild Rivers Act:

http://www.ehp.qld.gov.au/wildrivers/index.html

Is there another act we should be aware of here?


Site Sponsor - http://grant-cause.com

#42

Marked
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Joined: 29 August 2013
Posts: 337
Member
11 November 2013 11:31 pm

gcause wrote:

Only legislation I was aware of was the Wild Rivers Act:

http://www.ehp.qld.gov.au/wildrivers/index.html

Is there another act we should be aware of here?

This is to do with Victorian Regs g'.


"The Sun's not Yellow, It's Chicken." Bob Dylan - Tombstone Blues (Highway 61 Revisited{1965})

#43

Australis
Newbie
Joined: 09 January 2014
Posts: 2
Newbie
09 January 2014 03:28 pm

Hi All.
Very new to all this. Just to get my head around these issues. I have a question...
As an example....
Could I use a small sluice / pan and bucket in the Jordan River or Red jacket Creek (which is inside the Water Catchment Area of the Thompson River.)

Cheers

#44

Flyfisher
Banned
Joined: 12 January 2014
Posts: 5
Banned
12 January 2014 02:44 pm

To answer your question on Jordon River & Red Jacket Creek, "no prospecting, its prohibited in the catchment area of the Thomson Dam. Sorry to disappoint but that is factual government regulation.

Last edited by Flyfisher (12 January 2014 04:57 pm)

#45

Balx
Banned
Banned
12 January 2014 03:01 pm

Flyfisher wrote:

To answer your question on Jordon River & Red Jacket Creek, "no prospecting is prohibited in the catchment area of the Thomson Dam. Sorry zero disappoint but that is factual government regulation.

No prospecting is prohibited? so that means all prospecting is allowed? If you want to make a point at least word it coherently.

1 user likes this post: loamer

#46

Teemore
Member
From: Melton West, VIC
Joined: 18 September 2013
Posts: 929
Member
12 January 2014 03:44 pm

Flyfisher wrote:

is factual government regulation.

As opposed to most G'ment regulations that are fictional???


If you don't stand for something ..... You'll fall for anything !!
To be old and wise you must first be young and foolish.

1 user likes this post: loamer

#47

onespecSteve
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Joined: 01 January 2014
Posts: 45
Member
03 February 2014 08:01 am

its amazing that we live on one of the most productive gold areas in the world and can't access them. The big problem is people dont understand that modern day prospectors don't actually mine like the old timers. There isnt enough of us to force change, we our outnumbered to greenies by about 2000 of them to 1 of us. Something needs to change though, if you dont own a detector your getting discriminated against pretty strongly.


So much stuff out there waiting for us to find it.

#48

Marked
Member
Joined: 29 August 2013
Posts: 337
Member
03 February 2014 11:26 am

Unfortunately for us, there is also a bad minority that make a mess in their quest for easy money - they flout the prospecting guidelines and give us all a bad name. With restricted access, policing becomes easier, if largely unnecessary. Opening more areas, if and when it happens, will naturally come with increased costs to our Victorian Miner's Right to pay for increased policing of the prospecting areas. Given my distance from major gold producing areas, I am pretty happy with the licensing cost vs time spent ratio that I can personally manage at the moment; if costs went up I would have to seriously reconsider my interest in the hobby.


"The Sun's not Yellow, It's Chicken." Bob Dylan - Tombstone Blues (Highway 61 Revisited{1965})

#49

onespecSteve
Member
Joined: 01 January 2014
Posts: 45
Member
03 February 2014 10:25 pm

The problem is Marked is that 4x4ers, motorbikes go off the tracks and do damage too. yet we are banned and they still have free run. the problem is that people think prospecting is the same as mining. we dont dig 200 foot holes and leave a big mess, we wont shake it so i guess we just have to accept what is meant to be is meant to be. Its a shame some compromise cant be met half way and some rivers and creeks opened up to us.


So much stuff out there waiting for us to find it.

#50

PaulFritz
Member
Joined: 01 August 2013
Posts: 58
Member
04 February 2014 08:17 am

Another email sent to PMAV and also DEPI with no responses as of yet.

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