Deus Target Separation

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Heaps of hype, bugger all substance. I love my Deus, I love my CTX. Ones fast as, ones slow as (apparently???????) both score whenever, whether amongst heavy trash or not. My biggest dilemma on a coin hunting day is which one do I use................Just bloody good challenging fun and beats the armchair.........I can feel some goldies coming on....
 
Norvic said:
Heaps of hype, bugger all substance. I love my Deus, I love my CTX. Ones fast as, ones slow as (apparently???????) both score whenever, whether amongst heavy trash or not. My biggest dilemma on a coin hunting day is which one do I use................Just bloody good challenging fun and beats the armchair.........I can feel some goldies coming on....

Days like that mate I think you just need to flip a coin. :D
 
Nice share mate, hadn't seen that one and its got the big 13 x 11 coil on as well. Even better with the 9.

Sometimes the deus's speed is hard to handle. Bit like going from a fiat to a ferrari, you need to lay off the gas a bit or you end up sideways or worse.

This is What I Tell every new Deus owner and about half think I am a nutbag, the other half do it and it works.

Because Deus is so fast FULL Tones helps with the recognition of each individual target. Sometimes having fewer tones multiple targets can be mistaken for a DOUBLE BEEP. IE a very shallow easy to grab target.

So Each different conductivity level from 00-99 will tone slightly different.

Now when you first put Deus in Prog 9 and let the full tone NO discrimination chaos begin it is exactly that, chaos.

Your brain just goes into melt down and in my case I may have cried for a short time.

I believe YOUR Brain is a massively powerful thing, way more powerful than any computer. BUT you need to train it!

(This works with all detectors by the way that have multi tones.)

Lay targets on the ground where you can SEE them, this is important. Doesn't matter how close or how many. I suggest start with the decimal coins, throw in a few pre-dec and at least 4-5 trash targets as well. You want a good mix.

Now as your looking at the targets waive your detector over them and take note of the tone on each one, try and MICRO SWING to separate the targets and get a clear tone on each one. The whole time never take your eyes off the target your trying to pick out.

Over time your brain will get sick of the chaos and start to work it out. It will associate a visual cue (your targets laid out) with an audio one and as you are out hunting certain tones will just stop you dead in your tracks, with a picture in your mind of what it may be.

Ever heard the Experienced PI guys saying that gold just sounds different on a 5000 or a 4500 or even an sdc 2300. these are longtime users that have trained their brains to recognise very subtle differences in tones. Most have dug thousands of targets to get that training. By doing the visual exercise in your yard you are cutting back the time by needing to learn this in the field by digging thousands of holes.

You need to practice a lot at first with the targets Visible, this will translate into your brain recognising when they are invisible IE buried.

One small add on you can do is get someone to lay the targets out for you and cover them with a towel, now head over and try to identify each one on tone alone. It won't take too long before you can name most of them pretty easily.

Do this exercise once a day for a month and I guarantee you'll be a better detectorist for it.

I read the precedence article and by training your brain it's not a problem at all.
In fact I Now find unless i can hear everything my brain doesn't respond as well and it actually likes the pounding it takes from full tone, no discrimination.
the Old grey matter is still the best discrimination system I have used.

Hope that helps, speed isn't everything but in a modern trashy park being able to hear tiny differences in tone can save you digging a lot of holes.

Try It..... Love to know if anyone does.

Clegy

P.S deus FAST is set at a speed (reactivity level) of 3 in factory mode. It can go to 5 but the highest I have felt the need for is 4 and that was next to one of those covered electric BBQ areas where I was getting well over 10+ tone's a swing.

I do find the New level of 2.5 to be a pretty sweet spot in most area's. 2 and 3 are surprisingly a long way apart.
 
There is a point though Clegy where 2 discrete sounds won't be 2 discrete sounds any longer, there is no getting away from the fact that at about 30-40ms and below sounds will start to blend and any tones following the first will need to be many DB louder than the first. Anyway most detector companies would obviously know this. My only point was things can get too fast.

As said, training your ear to make sense of the audio clutter is very possible and must be done in very trashy ground. Or use very heavy discrimination and just hunt for target types of known consistency.
 
Days like that mate I think you just need to flip a coin.

Tis a worry gotta find the coin first ;)

Yeah, guess tis horses for courses, I use my Deus on 0 reactivity mostly. and have sort of formed the opinion that reactivity (speed) is just marketing hype, no use going faster then the brain can handle, plus the biggest effect in trashy ground is the operators swing speed.

With regards to gold sounding different on different gold detectors or for that matter any signal, guess I`m deaf, cos bugger if I can tell the diff with any certainty and I`ve been at it for, crikey just did the sums....... almost 40 years and many, many thousands of signals. Please note...... this opinion relates to gold machines (earlyVLFs, PI, ZVT), coin machines with tonal ID is a different matter but even tonal ID and visual ID is not near spot on but getting closer.
 
2.5 in parks, bump to 3 for testing the odd target. Training your ears is key, and that takes time, but once you have, the masked/deep finds become audiable to you :)
 
Reactivity certainly isn't marketing hype, it does make a big difference in real world situations - both on depth and unmasking. I am quite the opposite to you Norvic, the lowest reactivity I ever use is 2 or 2.5, with the max being 4 - the signal tends to get a bit clipped on the highest setting, and only of real use on the junkiest ground as a last resort. If you detect the areas that I regularly frequent, those lower reactivity settings will NOT be able to positively identify a good non-ferrous target close to iron, nor if mixed with several iron targets in the same hole. I have run over many sites from every conceivable direction with various sized coils using more comservative reactivity settings, and have not been able to pull out any more targets. Then have returned using faster settIngs picking up on targets thay I simply could not hear previously - even finding shallow coins that were near on completely masked by nearby iron.

It's not a matter of the brain being able to handle the amount of information coming through the speaker with higher reactivity, as you can slow the sweep speed right down on the Deus and hear individual targets in very close proximity to each other. When we talk about information overload, that is more in relation to using Fulltones which assigns 99 tones to targets of various conductivity, basically running the detector wide open and listening to every little piece of information from the ground. Yes it can be a handful to listen to on heavily contaminated ground, though your ears do get conditioned to picking out desirable tones from the mix, whilst ignoring unwanted information. It is also the best way to identify iron, the more information from the detector, the better in that respect.

Personally I have found those very low reactivity settings to be too laggy for my requirements, and aside from that it's not what I bought the Deus for - it's forte is picking out targets amongst iron, and the only way to effectively do this is via higher reactivity settings. The other forte of the Deus is for re-detecting sites long thought to be barren of good targets, though only barren as previous detectors could simply not hear what the Deus is capable of hearing. If if wanted a slower detector, or something that will purely have ability on deep targets, then there are plenty of other detectors that can already fill those shoes. Also a VLF will only "see" so far through iron contaminated ground, hence depth ability and lower reactivity settings are not as important as on detecting cleaner ground.

Whilst I am on the subject, it is all well and good to say the Equinox is faster than the Deus, but would you seriously really want anything faster than the Deus when those settings may well be unusable in the field. Probably more worthwhile investing time into initimate knowdledge of your current detector, and learning what the tone responses are all about before being too quick to jump onto a new detector/platform to start the whole process all over again. :)
 
All this Tech Talk is very important and useful, But the bottom line is the XP Deus is still the best Trash hunting site machine ever made,

Someone who has never detected here in their life has just walked out on to a field and hit a Hammered Medieval Coin, It took me 6 years to find one using another brand of machines, Bugga, bloody French machine, :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Seriously though that is a heck of a find, and a heck of a Machine.

J.
 
When I first purchased the Deus posts like this one from RR "But the bottom line is the XP Deus is still the best Trash hunting site machine ever made". were taken just a wee seriously but now I`ve got some hours behind both the Deus and the CTX. I have found yes the Deus is very fast, yes the CTX Fe and Co ID is very accurate, but I have not found which is the better at trash sites, just that one has to use them a little differently.

First hand posts by users like Roceteroo and Goldpick on their actual use of the Deus will keep me fiddling always as does tips from actual CTX owners. Good fun
 
Yep, for some reason the Gold Maxx Power and the Deus hit those Medieval Coins so hard, they are about a 3rd of the thickness of normal coins maybe even thinner, and they come up with the same sort of ID numbers as ring pulls so if you disc out ring pulls then you won't find these coins, Luckily farm land does not have as many ring pulls buried in it like parks and public places do, The Tesoro's were/are good on them also,

As machines go the XP is not for me because I use my machines for different tasks, But that's not saying they are not good machines because they are seriously good, It is only in these Ancient sites that they really shine, It's like they are tailor made solely for that purpose,

J.
 
I have started working with reactivity 3, for my standard setting. I reckon this is the sweetspot for our trashy sites, such as parks, and house sites. I am convinced that 2.5 is bare minimum, your leaving lots behind anything lower...except on low trash patches.
 
Yeah, I went that way until I started swinging the CTX, realised then how much I was leaving behind,(not the Deus me the operator) just at present feel you get more with the reactivity down, and compensate with slow swings as per the CTX, but one thing I`ve learnt over the years, gotta keep trying different things, keep a open mind for sure. Have one old ghost town site only 3ks away(1850s to 1950s), lots of trash, tis my "research" patch, there is a 1/2 sovereign there for sure. Go down there shortly for a lazy Sunday arvo swing, the CTX has won the toss this arvo....I think.......... but you have me thinking, I`ll throw the Deus in too.
 
Hi Folks,
Not long back home from a week's detecting on the gold fields, it was great to get away for a while. On this trip I was fortunate to have permission to run the XP Deus over an old village site dating back to the 1800's gold rush era, of which there is nothing left standing, but the old brick and stone foundations cover an area several hundred metres long and about a hundred metres wide, give or take a few gaps. At first site I thought this is looking absolutely fabulous in terms of potential, on closer examination the whole area is covered in rusting iron/steel junk and the Deus and self combination had a frustratingly hard time trying to sort out worthwhile targets.
The main problem was that the ferrous targets for the most part were up in the high eighties and mid nineties where I have come to understand silver items TID's should print, the Deus program was fast with a couple of minor changes, try as I may to pick the differences in the audio to discriminate good from junk targets it just did not happen and after a couple of hours detecting I gave it away for this trip. Some of the junk items came home with me to try and sort out how to program the Deus to get these types of targets to register correct TID's. During a coffee break Andy Sabisch's book was consulted and it appears that rusty iron/steel items do cause the Deus to struggle at times and it takes far more operator experience than I have at this stage to discriminate the different items using the audio tones.
Out of interest, I ran the CTX3030 over a selection of the offending items at home and all of their TID's where where one would expect them to be, way down in the low ferrous range, so next trip both detectors will have a run and hopefully it will help me become more proficient with the Deus by comparing targets with both detectors while noting the various TID's on both detectors.
A few images from the trip.
Cheers, SinHof.
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Nice looking site Sinhof, makes you wonder how all those bricks spread out so far. Have had some dramas going on here, will return your call soon mate, wasn't being ignorant, lol. :D :Y:
 
Evening Heatho,
Yes mate, that location will certainly receive more attention before the weather warms too much, the property owner mentioned there are a couple of other sites that I should go and check out.Look forward to hearing from you when all is well at your end.
Cheers, SinHof.
 
Great looking site Sinhof, a treaure trove in the making and nice cricket bucket too. Yes iron can be a bit tricky on the Deus, especially on the high tone falsing for rusted items, and anything remotely round in shape. With iron, consistancy of the tones and numbers, target sizing, iron grunting on the extremities of the target, and the intensity of the target tone all give clues to a buried iron object.

Round horse tack (metal rings & saddlery) items will give a reasonably sweet tone at depth, though will give an iron tone as the coil is pulled off the target - dig the item up and it will revert to an iron grunt. Most of these items will be identified as iron due to both the intensity of the tone (too good to be true high tone), and pinpointing will usually unveil a larger item at depth, much larger than what you would normally expect for a coin sized target, and jumpy/inconsistent TID's

Best to forget about TID's on the Deus, it is certainly not a CTX and shouldn't be treated as being anywhere as similar - it is a tone based detector and that's where you will find the advantages lay. Only fulltones will give the required information to discern between the good and bad when present with a site full of layered junk. The reason being that with so much ferrous material present, TID's will heavily influenced by nearby iron, and as a result read much lower than what is expected say for example a Victorian penny. That's the point at which you run the discrimination at minimal levels to knock out most iron nails, and let the ears do the discriminating, or as I do, sometimes running with absolutely no discrimination. So essentially you are down to digging either ferrous or non-ferrous rather than trying to pick out say coins via normally expected TID's. Yes you can try and cherry pick the shallower targets via normal TID's on an initial run over the site, though anything deeper and you will most likely walk straight over good targets due to incorrect TID's influenced by surrounding junk.

Probably the worse type of metal to distinguish is not iron, but roofing type iron which is not a pure iron material - this can sound very nice at depth, though irregular shapes can cause the tone and numbers to fluctuate greatly, a coin will offer a more consistent and much smoother tone. Hard to put it in words, though you will know in an instant when you walk over a coin vs other junk, guess it is something that takes a reasonable number of hours on the Deus to become familiarise with such tones.

Worse case scenario is when the ground is so contaminated that a coin no longer sounds anything like what you would expect, the sort of areas where a coin will come out of the ground along with a handfull of rusty nails (ie any old house site). Probably the worse target response I ever had was from a florin, didnt sound anything like a coin netherlone a large silver, it was a real mixed iron/non-ferrous tone (very low for silver), and the cause was several square nails coming from the same hole. I didn't hear silver, though I did get a snippet of non-ferrous, and that was good enough reason to dig. The other thing that gave a clue was during pinpointing, that showed a decent sized target at depth, much more than what you might get from several smaller nail targets. Same can be done for coins or relics sitting alonside much larger iron objects, often the pinpointing will indicate a seperate peak very close to the higher peak of the large iron. I have found many heavily masked items through such methods, whereas many would walk past such targets thinking that they were just falsing from the larger iron object.

It still amuses me on club hunts when detectorists constantly dig up large iron objects due to going off high tones alone, and never bothering to properly size a target through pinpointing. A quick sweep showing a foot wide high tone target is a pretty good indicator to leave the target in the ground.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, some iron targets can turn out to be real interesting artefact or tools from a bygone era - whether you want to find such targets is personal preference. Alternatively it can be seen as ground sterilisation - remove one target to reveal another.

They should have called the Deus the "Scapel", as that's the way I treat it on old house sites - peeling away each layer of junk to unveil masked targets. The more iron you remove, the more targets are revealed. In that sense you can see why old house sites are never totally hunted out, as a fast detector can only find so many targets before its limits are reached, even with the Deus. In theory if you could clear off the first several inches of ferrous laden ground, I'm sure you would end up with a completely revitalised patch of ground again.

One area where the Deus excels is on mid to low conductors, typical items you would find littering a Victorian era site - buttons, jewellery, medallions, thin buckles etc. Especially the case with the newer high frequency coils on which you can get pretty amazing depth on such small & thin targets, not mention revitalised ability for coins sitting on edge.

Stick with it, took me a decent chunk of hours to be comfortable with the Deus, not to mention digging 100's of targets fully understand what the Deus is all about. We have several CTX & Deus users down here who found the transition a bit rocky at first, though most of those guys are now doing really well once they have understood how the two detectors differ and operate, and to which sites they are most suited to. :)
 
Yeah, good read Goldpick, I went the other way had the Deus for a couple of years and then got a CTX this year, got this lovely "research" patch full of trash just down the road. I have sort of, I say sort of because nothing is a definite, anyway I`ve sort of found the CTX is up there with the Deus in trashy areas, contrary to the consensus, even though it is miles slower. That Fe Co ID is the key, the tones on both machines I feel whilst a wee different are similar, once you`ve adjusted, but it is the Fe ID & target trace screen in particular that with good coil control makes up for the CTXs slower reactivity. For eg. yesterday arvo I scored an old mother of pearl cuff link, where I`d flogged with the Deus and 100s have flogged with all sorts of machines for 30 years, not saying the Deus missed it, I and the other operators missed it, not the detectors as it was only 2-3" down, but surrounded by ferrous trash.

I love both my Deus and CTX just seem to be proving this separation thingo is more related to the operators ability to adapt more then to the speed of the machine.
 
I experienced large iron piecex in fields yesterday. Yes some times the iron will give high reading but the iron has a distinct sound. And once you know this sound you will know not to dig it. If your unsure try a different angle and the sound should be more distinct. Walk away. Wait for solid id reading and a high tone
 
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