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#51

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
21 February 2017 03:49 am

Where u from?!


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

#52

vonG
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Joined: 19 January 2017
Posts: 125
Member
21 February 2017 03:57 am

sweden

#53

Nena
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From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
21 February 2017 03:58 am

vonG wrote:

sweden

Sweden! Im from the Netherlands big_smile Welcome by the way! lol You could drive to my home one day lol big_smile


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

#54

vonG
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Joined: 19 January 2017
Posts: 125
Member
21 February 2017 04:00 am

Thanks. smile
Maybe I will take you up on that offer when you have got the machine up and running. Would be fun to see it live.

#55

Nena
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From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
25 February 2017 04:43 am

Thnx! Your Welcome!

The head will be milled these week roll I hope i did it all oke big_smile Still need to draw the rest... having some problems with the joint but ill get it right big_smile hope to complete the rest this or next week so it can also be milled!

Opbouw_Machine.jpg
Opbouw_Machine_As.jpg

The first part is done! The sensor ring plate big_smile

20170222_161938.jpg
20170222_162033.jpg

Last edited by Nena (25 February 2017 05:29 am)


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

2 users like this post: ktmman, Mackka

#56

Nena
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From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
26 February 2017 11:58 pm

Have done the joint! I can seal the joint now to protect the absolute rotation sensor and can now go on with the mounting plates and the linear guides.

Opbouw_Bodem.jpg


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

2 users like this post: AtomRat, Gilly47

#57

Gilly47
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From: Currently on Tour, QLD
Joined: 18 January 2015
Posts: 843
Member
27 February 2017 10:01 am

Hello All

This drawing technology never ceases to amaze me, I trained in engineering practises in the 1960's, there was minimal automation and our technology at that time was a auto lathe that followed a steel profile to produce steam pipe flanges for welding in to boilers.

ray

Last edited by Gilly47 (27 February 2017 10:04 am)


1 wife 1 dog and a sieve. NAPFA & QSMA member,

#58

Gilly47
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From: Currently on Tour, QLD
Joined: 18 January 2015
Posts: 843
Member
27 February 2017 10:32 am

way above my comprehension but am intrigued at the build process. Nice Work gents


1 wife 1 dog and a sieve. NAPFA & QSMA member,

2 users like this post: NeilM, Nena

#59

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
27 February 2017 10:00 pm

Hi Ray, a lot has changed indeed! This is anno 2017 lol! It took a while to draw like this but it is fun and when the parts arive its even more fun to build! I use one of the best drawing programs for sutch perposes. (Autodesk Inventor) There are others. About technicks, i digged a German BF109G for a few years back and when we cleaned the engine it looks likes 2 drups of water with a new Merceders 12 cylinder from the farmer! The tech was already there in 1944! The only thing what was changed was the oil pump. LoL!

Ill continue to build my machine, only it is a pain in the xxx to get it compact and strong. I use 24mm (almost 1 inch) plate material. I hope it all is going to work! I already have some doubs with one of the plates of the head but ill continue!


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

#60

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
28 February 2017 09:53 am

Almost done with the base faceting head! Hehehe the total height 32 cm! big_smile

Opbouw_Bodem_2.jpg


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

1 user likes this post: ktmman

#61

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
28 February 2017 08:51 pm

The first plates are almost done! I hope to continue my build next week but still need to turn the big cylinder. You cant see the details, this is due the light. Ill make new photo's when i receive it!

20170228_082239.jpg

Christian

Last edited by Nena (28 February 2017 08:53 pm)


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

2 users like this post: Wally69, ktmman

#62

vonG
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Joined: 19 January 2017
Posts: 125
Member
28 February 2017 09:21 pm

wow Christian, thats going to be big. Whats the weight of the head?

I see now what you meant with the encoders. Pictures are always better and you know your stuff in Autodesk too I see. Is there anything that you dont know? big_smile
Which plate is the one that you have doubt about?

#63

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
28 February 2017 09:29 pm

Hi there!

From shaft till end of motor +/- 270mm I think its going to weight about 30kg. Hehehe already changed the plate that i had doubt about!

vonG wrote:

Is there anything that you dont know? big_smile

LoL Uhm... hehehehe! big_smile

Greets,

Christian


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

#64

vonG
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Joined: 19 January 2017
Posts: 125
Member
28 February 2017 09:45 pm

haha, humble I see. big_smile

Great that you fixed the plate, think you will be better off with this new setup with less axes. Going to be a big machine anyway.

I wish I had your programming skills. By the way, how long have you worked with programming and cnc?

1 user likes this post: Nena

#65

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
28 February 2017 10:01 pm

Im a programmer for 20 years now i think big_smile 8 years electronics 4 years chemestry and 2 years robotics big_smile I like robotics more then the rest! big_smile I now can put all skills in one box and that was something i wanted to do!

I overlooked the price of the encoders... they will cost around 450 euro's each but ill order them! And i still need a linear encoder but that one is also expensive.

But mayby i order also the linear encoder it makes my programming so mutch easyer! First i need to draw my Y axis ball screw and i have seen some nice aluminium profiles on ebay (90x90mm and 90x60mm) I hope i can get some 3d files from them.


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

#66

vonG
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Joined: 19 January 2017
Posts: 125
Member
28 February 2017 10:19 pm

Then I understand why this comes so easy for you. I have no doubt about you making this work.
Ive always been fascinated about automation, but lack the complete skills for it.

Is there any meaning in having a linear encoder on the y-axis except for the programming? You are going to have a vertical lap anyway. The x-axis or the z-axis on the gantry is going to be used for the depth of the cut on the lap, or am I wrong?

#67

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
28 February 2017 10:37 pm

I use the X axis for the depth, the Y axis is the linear guide to the head. The Y axis is only used to move the stone over the lap plate and has no special function its only used to prevent grooves on the lap. The X is importand becourse i can move the head to the plate and that need to be very precies. Im not ready yet with my drawing. I still need to draw the X and the rest. Thats why i need some 3d drawings of the extrusion aluminium. The linear encoder is placed on the X axis, that axis is almost 1 meter long. When it is correct i can let the motors turn to the position and correct the steps to the given position on the linear/rotary encoder. So i let the motor turn till the exact position has been made. Thats why i also want to use Absolute Encoders, they have 1.200.000 positions in 1 rotation. Lets calculate big_smile

Motor has 200 steps per revelution
Harmonic Drive is a reducer 50 on 1

So 200 * 50 = 10000 positions over 360 degrees = 0,036 degree per position

But i could use micro stepping so 0.036 / 8 = 0,0045 and 0.036 / 16 = 0,00225 etc

If i say 45 degrees the motor must turn to the +/- 45 degrees and stop, correct and hold.


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

#68

vonG
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Joined: 19 January 2017
Posts: 125
Member
28 February 2017 11:04 pm

Ok, thought you were going to have the encoder on the y-axis, which gives no meaning.

I saw some calculation about the index axis, needs 616 steps per degree to cover all the angles that the regular 32, 64, 72, 77, 80, 96, and 120 index gear on a faceting machine gives. That is going to be slow.

How fast is your setup going to move?

#69

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
28 February 2017 11:16 pm

Uhm lets say if i turn the motors with 3000rpm (witch i wont do) will be reduced by 50 is 60rpm for x and y rotation and x linear. y linear is 3000rpm over 5mm per revolution. So that one can go fast. X linear is 25mm per revolution over 60rpm, its length is 900mm 900/25 = 36 revolutions so almost 30 seconds to move from one side to the other big_smile ist slow. Lets say im going to treavel a bit slower it would take a minute to move the complete machine. The machine dont have to be fast in the travel. To move the cutting head from 0 to 359 degrees is in 1 second. So if that is doing a 10 second over it with corrections i would be glad big_smile


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

#70

vonG
Member
Joined: 19 January 2017
Posts: 125
Member
28 February 2017 11:33 pm

Yes speed is of no use, precision is. And precision you got. big_smile
Youre not going to use the complete x-axis anyway.

Cant wait to see the machine faceting a stone from rough to finished gem.

#71

Kingsolomon
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Joined: 16 May 2013
Posts: 489
Member
28 February 2017 11:39 pm

I think you will be dissapointed once you finnish it . Not saying it in a bad way . I just think you like the challenge of building something like this . And when it's done , it facets for you ! So apart from the joy of knowing the machine you created can do that , I think you will move on to another machine that may do it better , of course one that you will be building . So I think this will go on forever . No disrespect , just saying , at the end of the day , you just want to make machines . And that's not a bad thing . You seem to be doing well . I'm looking forward to " model 2 " lol . You know you are going to do it .


Got stuff to dig stuff up .. Got stuff to detect metal stuff .. Got stuff to facet stuff ...

#72

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
28 February 2017 11:47 pm

I hope not big_smile I want to facet not build anymore, but i need to and i wont spend a another 10k for building a new one lol. I will upgrade the machine, thats a must but i wont build a new one, its too expensive! I want to cut stones professionally! And get my daughter to a university! Building a second wont happen unless.... hehehehe i still have 4kg of rubys to cut lol


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

#73

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
01 March 2017 05:40 am

vonG wrote:

I saw some calculation about the index axis, needs 616 steps per degree to cover all the angles that the regular 32, 64, 72, 77, 80, 96, and 120 index gear on a faceting machine gives. That is going to be slow.

I think your wrong with that calculation. Indexes are build upon the 360 degrees. Even if you take the 120 the calculation is then 360/120 = 3 degrees per position So in theory your limited in actions. To make a high res sphere wont be able with an index of 96, if you look at a microscope you should be able to see all cutted facets. If tested it with my software big_smile if i should hang a index number on my machine then i have a index of 160.000. So i do cover all possible indexes. If i need to use a index of 96 positions it should be 160.000 / 96 = 1667 positions are oke to cut with for each facet. However the best position would be devided by two position number 833.

I think you ment 616 steps per revolution to cover up all the indexes.


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)

#74

vonG
Member
Joined: 19 January 2017
Posts: 125
Member
01 March 2017 06:17 am

Im not the one that did the calculation, but it says that 221,760 is the least common multiple of the index values (32, 64, 72, 77, 80, 96, and 120).
That gives 616 steps per degree (221,760 / 360), it will be able to hit every possible angle with this and a lot of points in between.

Think you have to make the calculation with every gear and not only the 96. The positions must match from gear to gear.

Again, Im not the one that did the calculation to begin with.

#75

Nena
Member
From: Hoogeveen (NL)
Joined: 03 July 2016
Posts: 310
Member
01 March 2017 06:40 am

Even when it needs to coverup 616 steps per degree, non of the indexes will get that position.

32, 64, 72, 77, 80, 96, 120

360/32 = 11,25 OK
360/64 = 5,625 OK
360/72 = 5 OK
360/77 = 4,6753246753246753246753246753247 -> Useless! Not a usefull index! Incorrect! Invalid! (Graphical Imposible)
360/80 = 4,5 OK
360/96 = 3,75 OK
360/120 = 3 OK

The 64th has the smallest rounding. 625 thus you need steps from 0,005 to coverup all positions from all indexes so 360 / 0.005 = An index of 72.000 wil make all possebilities. Thats the smallest! But hey! 0.025 works too! big_smile 360/0.025 = 14400!!! So an index of 14.400 will cover up every index on a lapedary!

It does not matter anyway, the overal index that is used the most are the 64 and the 96. And dont forget the 5% error rate from a stepper motor tongue and the metal that is used, the temperature, the... the... lol big_smile

Last edited by Nena (01 March 2017 07:08 am)


Detecting and hoping to find something! Detectors: XP Deus, Golden Mask Pro Deep (Pulse Induction) If i need to dig 2 meters deep, i will :-)


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