Ground penetrating radar?

Ok, so I'm browsing thru comments on a fb page and the post is about a sdc 2300 for sale on ebay, that has been modded with a different coil. A lot of it wouldn't work type comments, a I was there and saw it work and it found gold comment, and 1 guy who is adamant that the sdc uses ground penetrating radar in conjuction with pulse induction to acheive the sensitivity. This is the 1st I've heard of this. Is it true? Is it bullshit? If its crap, id kinda like to tell the guy to stop spreading shit in forums misleading ppl, but I don't want to look like a complete spanner if it's true. Like Vinnie Barbarino in welcome back Kotter.......I'm so confused! Anyone with some real knowledge set me straight please. Phase tech maybe, anyone?

If Minelab don't advertise their product as using "ground penetrating radar" then I would say the the ebay description is rubbish.
Jaros

As far as I'm aware and stand to be corrected it's just MPF tech? Fast switching between Tx & Rx pulse induction

Its crap. The SDC does not use ground penetrating radar! It is not even very useful in high conductive ground such as that found on a lot of goldfields as the signal dissipates quickly & has difficulty penetrating heavy clays. Also it is used to collect data that is later analysed with specific software to give results or a map of possible targets etc. not for realtime detection. It is not very useful as a gold finding technology - a metal detector is better.
The SDC sensitivity comes from the MPF (multi period fast) pulse timing it uses.
https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/doc/member-docs/4485/1434771750_kba_23-1_mpf_technology-1.pdf

the physics and engineering behind sonar, radar and pulse impedance measurements are all similar but to say they are the same is theoretically incorrect
sounds more like someone was trying to dumb down the theory to explain it to someone who would have seen radar on TV...

sonar and radar are (primarily) looking at the reflected energy from a target... think of a echo against a cliff wall... the echo tells u there is something there... the time between the send and receive tells you the distance-ish... comparing the size of the signal to the time send / receive can tell you how dense the target is

Im theorizing on this next bit but... pulse induction would be looking at the impedance change as a result of a "conductive" target being close and changing the baseline impedance... different materials have differing levels of impedance hence discrimination... pulse induction is looking at the phase difference on the send / receive... as well as time... this is why... i am guessing... coil pulse timing are the real guts of the detectors smarts... setting up the impedance pulse and watching for the decay / phase change

watching to see responses myself to satisfy my dilbert mind / thoughts

"There output isn't just the pulse induction it has ground penetrating radar that allows the sensitivity without the false responses without the radar that will be stupid silly and unusably" Quoted from the thread, this is what he said. It isn't the bloke that was selling it, just somebody commenting on it. But I thought it sounded wrong.

"The problem is the coils are not the same as SD go or gpx coils and the machine will work but will false all the time as the radar checks that there is a target now it has no radar throw it over your shoulder he has destroyed a great detector from being a stings or a man with great ideas don't no which one but that SDC is roooooooottttttteeeeddddddddd" Then he said this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground-penetrating_radar

the frequencies and energy needed just don't seem likely?

if he said it employs techniques / principles similar to that used in ground penetrating radar... id say possibly?... maybe??? but unless his name is Candy... id ask how he would know? and his quote doesn't sound like something Mr Candy would publish... sounds more like a troll / sour grapes post?

EDIT from wikipedia link - "The electrical conductivity of the ground, the transmitted center frequency, and the radiated power all may limit the effective depth range of GPR investigation. Increases in electrical conductivity attenuate the introduced electromagnetic wave, and thus the penetration depth decreases. Because of frequency-dependent attenuation mechanisms, higher frequencies do not penetrate as far as lower frequencies. However, higher frequencies may provide improved resolution."

this reminded me.. was told years ago while working on some high tech naval radar systems.. they can resolve a target down to aprox a tennis ball size at close range on a good day.. due to the wavelength / frequency... microwave is very short wavelength... high frequencies don't punch into dense media and wouldn't resolve a tennis ball sized object in the air let alone in the ground... maybe they are using this technology for a ground balancing / tracking thing? and he is kind of saying that (in a not very easily read way... (i think?)

who knows? <shrugs> whitemans black majic!

http://www.geophysical.com/gssifaqs.htm said:

Can GPR be used to find gold?

While GPR is in use with many professional mining companies, the technology is not well suited to finding coins, gold nuggets or buried treasure. Metal detectors are more suitable.

Click to expand...

Not sure how Ground Penetrating Radar would even be of use in ground balancing. It's whole objective is to penetrate the ground & image the sub surface not read changes in ground although it could possibly measure some changes through loss of penetration in varying soils. We already know that its use is limited in conductive ground & heavy clays so again not practical for goldfields or to use in ground balancing I would imagine?
I don't need an electronics degree to know the Facebook bloke is full of crap! No onboard GPR in the SDC!
I suppose he thinks the GPZ has an inbuilt electromagnetic conductivity meter for geophysical surveys as well as the odd detection of a gold nugget.

Before i sold the garret ads deepseeker i spoke to a fella who looked at one in Queensland and was interested.
The one he looked at was twice the price as mine and the fella selling it was trying to tell this bloke that they are better than the gpx5000 and well sort after.
Being a crappy sales person i was i told him its a load of crap and told him to look around a bit more.
I guess the point to this story is that people will tell you anything to sell you something.

Greglz86 said:

Before i sold the garret ads deepseeker i spoke to a fella who looked at one in Queensland and was interested.
The one he looked at was twice the price as mine and the fella selling it was trying to tell this bloke that they are better than the gpx5000 and well sort after.
Being a crappy sales person i was i told him its a load of crap and told him to look around a bit more.
I guess the point to this story is that people will tell you anything to sell you something.

Click to expand...

The guy I quoted wasn't trying to sell it, it has been sold already. He was rubbishing the mod saying it wouldn't work, apparently according to another guy who commented he was there with the guy who bought it, and it found gold. The problem I had is the bloke I quoted is saying the sdc uses technology that it doesn't. Misinformation is a dangerous thing and if left uncorrected becomes accepted as fact after enough people have seen it. I was 95% sure it was crap, but didn't want to look like a complete wood duck just in case I was wrong.

"Not sure how Ground Penetrating Radar would even be of use in ground balancing.... although it could possibly measure some changes through loss of penetration in varying soils"

exactly my thoughts, any background noise, if it can be removed, will make the machine run quieter ;-)

maybe there is some merit to what the FB crackpot was saying?

Chewy said:

"There output isn't just the pulse induction it has ground penetrating radar that allows the sensitivity without the false responses without the radar that will be stupid silly and unusably" Quoted from the thread, this is what he said. It isn't the bloke Bullsh!t Artist that was selling it, just somebody the Sales Manager commenting on it. But I thought it sounded wrong.

Click to expand...

Fixed it for you

LOL!!
There is no ground penetrating radar in the sdc!
I have heard from a reliable source that other coils can be hooked up to an SDC without actually modifying the machine as the stock coil does plug into the machine, so an adaptor lead can be made and fitted, however, I would suspect that the sdc would require really fast coils to work properly and get the best out of it, so some may work alright, others not. Please note that I have not tried and tested this myself and until I have done the answer of "will it work?" remains up in the air.
But GPR???? Just take a look at the retail price of it, if it did have GPR it would cost a hell of a lot more than it does and it would have GPR buzz words plastered all over it...

AuMan

The origin of the Graound Penetrating Radar story is most likely this actual Minelab press release: http://www.minelab.com/consumer/knowledge-base/news?article=94868

More Minelab info is here: http://www.minelab.com/aus/countermine/evaluations/f3

Here it is. GPZ with a funny coil :lol:
http://www.gaconsultingsrl.com/collaborations/cses/niitek/groundshark-handheld-dual-sensor-hds-2/
Cost? Consider the GPZ cost!
The way of the future? Maybe - but would it be useful or economically viable for the average punter?

Definitely not in the SDC or any other standalone Minelab product.

"Groundshark" - what a great name for a detector!

I asked Nenad. No gpr for the sdc. But freak me out man! How freakin awesome would a ground shark be! Wonder what sort of coin they want for 1?

Is that for real mbasko? That'd be pretty sweet

It's for real.
Who's cheeky enough to email Niitek for a price? [email protected]