something got me thinking

dwt said:

Question,
If a prominent business man can hire a couple of guys to sink a hole on a 45deg, down just over 20 feet, then throw in 30foot tunnel, all for a wine cellar and all of this can be done with no licensing at all, what's to stop me digging a deep hole using powerd equipment like old mate with his wine cellar.
I'm not extracting any gold whilst I dig my hole wth jackhammers and what have you, I'm just digging a hole, for no other purpose than I just had a brain fart!!! Which I cover up each night with a chunk of bizz sheet, no one falls in!
My point is, why can't I dig a hole with powerd equipment, what's wrong with a miserable little jack hammer, I mean come on!!, it's not as if I'm putting in a 50 foot TBM in the ass end of Bendigo.
Anyways, I see it as if "I'm not sinking a hole in the pursuit of gold" then a license I don't need, if I happen to find gold at the bottom of that hole, "then a license I shall get"
If it's good enough for the rich folk, then it's good enough for me!!!!!!

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Building permit most likely required for wine cellar-inspections and engineer's report, probably required soil sampling before the engineer could approve a design. Sounds a rather expensive process in order to dig your hole with powered equipment.

Hunting the yellow said:

Ryan27 said:

Hunting the yellow said:

ok so about 4 weeks ago i went into dpi Melbourne and asked whats the real depth you can go on a miners right digging with just and tools like pick shovel crow bar he's reply to me was there's no real depth you can go or what you are limited to go in Victoria but you have to fill it in when your done this gos for digging long trenchers too i also asked about tunneling by hand he said there is no law against it if your using hand tools but he said he wouldn't advise doing it then i asked him my last question can you take samples out of abounded old mines he said yes under your miners right i then asked can i continue a old mine by just hand tools nothing motorized he said yes if you can dig out the solid rock by hand

i also asked how manny shafts/deep holes am i aloud to dig if it was limed or not he said no limits on how manny shafts or holes you dig but you must fill them in when done and you can't use any motorized equipment just hand tools

me and spike are planing something big stay tuned

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HYT,
Did you happen to get a copy of the legislation that states you must back fill using hand tools?

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not as yet but might go back to dpi soon and get the whole lot on a miners right and what you can ans can't do

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Don't give them any ideas ! I think what they haven't thought of won't hurt them. Also if it isn't documented then it is open to interpretation.

I like this one

32. Can the holder of a Miners Right use motorised equipment to process gravel for minerals that has been excavated using hand held equipment and loaded into the processing equipment by hand?

Yes, however, significant land disturbance using these methods will not be permitted.

Terms and conditions of a Miner's Right

Relevant sections from the Mineral Resources (Sustainable Development ) Act 1990

Extracts relating to Miners Rights from:

MINERAL RESOURCES (SUSTAINABLE DEVELOPMENT) ACT 1990

55. MINERS RIGHT

(1) A Miners Right entitles the holder to search for minerals on any of the following land, unless the land is covered by a mining licence, prospecting licence or retention licence -

a) Private land, but only with the consent of the owner or occupier; and

b) Crown land (other than land exempted under Section 6, 6A or 7 of this Act or nominated under Section 7(1) of the Crown Land (Reserves) Act 1978.)

(1A) If the land is covered by a mining licence, prospecting licence or retention licence, the holder of a miners right is entitled to search for minerals on the land if he or she has, in addition to any consent required under sub-section (1), the consent of the licensee.

(2) A consent granted under sub-section (1) and (1A)

(a) May be granted subject to conditions: and

(b) May be withdrawn at any time by the person who granted it.

(2A) If the holder of a miners right is validly on any land under this section, he or she may remove from the land any minerals discovered by him or her on the land.

(3) A miners right is current for the time, not exceeding 10 years, specified in the Miners right

58. OBLIGATIONS OF HOLDER

(1) The holder of a miners right acting under that right must not -

(a) Use any equipment for the purposes of excavation on the land, other than non-mechanical hand tools; or

(b) Use explosives on the land; or

(c) Remove or damage any tree or shrub on the land; or

(c) Disturb any Aboriginal cultural heritage (within the meaning of the Aboriginal Heritage Act 2006) on the land.

Penalty: 100 penalty units.

(2) The holder of a miners right must repair any damage to the land arising out of the search:

Penalty: 50 penalty units.

(3) The holder of a miners right must produce the miners right for inspection if asked to do so by an inspector or any person acting under a delegation conferred under section 91(b). Mineral Resources (Sustainable Development)(Mineral Industries) Regulations 2013 18(3). A miners right does not take effect until it has been signed by the person to whom it was issued.

Isn't that pretty much what is printed on the back of the licence?

yes but if I was to grab the actual whole law book thing on miners rights it would be one long list the point is that on a miners right you are aloud to dig to china the only thing you gota do is 1 do it by hand tools only 2 fill in your hole 3 don't dig up or around any trees

Hunting the yellow said:

yes but if I was to grab the actual whole law book thing on miners rights it would be one long list the point is that on a miners right you are aloud to dig to china the only thing you gota do is 1 do it by hand tools only 2 fill in your hole 3 don't dig up or around any trees

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Sweet, I'm going to dig over to WA and get all the sand groper gold !

Hunting the yellow said:

yes but if I was to grab the actual whole law book thing on miners rights it would be one long list the point is that on a miners right you are aloud to dig to china the only thing you gota do is 1 do it by hand tools only 2 fill in your hole 3 don't dig up or around any trees

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Yes I agree - I think the misunderstanding somewhere above or elsewhere about only digging a certain depth/1 cubic meter per day refers to somewhere interstate rather than Victorian rules and regs, as they certainly have greater restrictions than us Mexicans.

The other misread about "...backfilling using only handtools..." from earlier in this thread wasn't what that sentence was saying; it was saying "dig with non-mechanical handtools (and ensure you) backfill holes".

I think if it was that easy, big companies would be all over it. Best to talk to the mining companies that are closing down at the moment. Why can't they turn a profit with iron ore. They already have the assets and resources! Why not diversify to precious metals.
Sorry to be negative however consider the costs vs risk. If the operation fails you don't get a refund.

Hunting the yellow said:

PabloP said:

Don't forget with just a Miners Right, that you have only a very limited depth allowance of about a metre (in Victoria at least), so even with the GPZ some may be finding stuff that they shouldn't recover. Heh, heh. I tried to find the specific regulation but got lost in all the words.

Rob P.

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no limit on depth m8 i checked but however the minute you start using any jack hammers or tools that are motorized for hard rock that you may run into then they get you for doing that but nothing on how deep you can go

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I realise that HTY is walk about but this thread is the closest I came to finding out our max depth with a shovel here in vic and I would really appreciate it if anyone could elaborate a little more in regards to our depth whilst using a pick and shovel as I am keen to get a start so if anyone can tell me the steps I must put in place whilst digging down to bedrock that would be great.. I am sure the information that follows will benefit not just me but every other PA member who always ask themselves the same question.. GC

Hunting the yellow said:

ok so about 4 weeks ago i went into dpi Melbourne and asked whats the real depth you can go on a miners right digging with just and tools like pick shovel crow bar he's reply to me was there's no real depth you can go or what you are limited to go in Victoria but you have to fill it in when your done this gos for digging long trenchers too i also asked about tunneling by hand he said there is no law against it if your using hand tools but he said he wouldn't advise doing it then i asked him my last question can you take samples out of abounded old mines he said yes under your miners right i then asked can i continue a old mine by just hand tools nothing motorized he said yes if you can dig out the solid rock by hand

i also asked how manny shafts/deep holes am i aloud to dig if it was limed or not he said no limits on how manny shafts or holes you dig but you must fill them in when done and you can't use any motorized equipment just hand tools

me and spike are planing something big stay tuned

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is this 100% or is it just one officers own opinion, for when or if you end up in court how can one argue that to a judge is it stated on file anywhere so I can copy it and have it on hand whilst I am digging..

Yes it is, look at your miner's right.

Pretty simple black and white.

(The holder of a miners right must repair any damage to land arising out of the search for minerals as soon as possible and prior to leaving a search area.)

Well that's on the miners right if that's what your referring to as stated above but if I read it right the Key Element there is that hole has to be backfilled each night before you leave for home or is it just me that interprets it that way? Do you have to camp onsite until your finished is that how you get around it? Can you legally secure a cover after your finished digging for the day and go home and return to dig the following day without being prosecuted .. me personally I don't like setting myself up for a fall and being on a public forum that could quite easily happen if I don't get 100% fair dinkum facts before I start digging . anyway thanks all GC

Greencheeks , If there are no published guidelines then there is no limit to depth or size of hole .
We do however have a guideline that states we must fill our holes when finished , going home for a shit and a shave doesn't mean you've finished with it .

I really do hear what your saying but when it comes down to the nitty gritty I still have trouble getting around this word and I will be honest with you there's a good chance it may come down to the nitty gritty . thanks for your post though all is greatly appreciated.. GC

leaving

1.

go away from.
"she left London on June 6"

synonyms: depart from, go away from, go from, withdraw from, retire from, take oneself off from, exit from, take one's leave of, pull out of, quit, be gone from, decamp from, disappear from, abandon, vacate, absent oneself from, evacuate; More
say one's farewells/goodbyes, make off, clear out, make oneself scarce, check out;

abscond from, run away from, flee (from), fly from, bolt from, go AWOL, take French leave, escape (from);

informalpush off, shove off, cut, cut and run, do a bunk, do a disappearing act, split, vamoose, scoot, clear off, take off, make tracks, up sticks, pack one's bags, flit;

informalsling one's hook

"I left the hotel"

set off, head, make, begin one's journey, set sail

"the next morning we left for Leicester"

antonyms: arrive, come, stay

depart from permanently.
"at the age of sixteen he left home"

cease attending (a school or college) or working for (an organization).
"she is leaving the BBC after 20 years"

synonyms: quit, give up, abandon, move from, resign from, retire from, bow out of, step down from, withdraw from, get out of, pull out of, back out of
"he left his job in November"

antonyms: stay in
2.
allow or cause to remain.
"the parts he disliked he would alter and the parts he didn't dislike he'd leave

"The holder of a miners right must repair any damage to land arising out of the search for minerals as soon as possible and prior to leaving a search area."

That seems pretty black & white in regards to leaving an open hole or digging a shaft. I would say that says you can't & if you leave the area you must fill it in regardless of whether you going home for a tom tit or for the night.

It gets a bit sketchy here though:

"32. Can the holder of a Miners Right use motorised equipment to process gravel for minerals that has been excavated using hand held equipment and loaded into the processing equipment by hand?
Yes, however, significant land disturbance using these methods will not be permitted."

This is taken from the Victorian Miners Right Q&A list from when I got my Victorian Miners Right awhile ago. It leaves it very open to the Rangers interpretation of what would be "significant land disturbance". In my opinion digging a shaft, trenching etc. would fall within their interpretation but then you may get a lenient Ranger? To be honest ya's have got it pretty good in Victoria compared to say 1 cubic metre of soil in 48hrs in NSW & very murky rules in regards to highbankers etc.

https://www.prospectingaustralia.com/forum/doc/member-docs/4485/1458962993_prospecting_in_victoria-1.pdf

mbasko said:

"The holder of a miners right must repair any damage to land arising out of the search for minerals as soon as possible and prior to leaving a search area."

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With that wording I understand that only applies to the holder of a miners right .
Do we need a miners right to dig holes for other reasons ?

That was touched on a bit earlier in the thread & has also been thrown around on at least one other topic on the forum.
The issues I see with it, & mentioned before by others as well, is you might move away from the requirements of your miners right but then depending on location; private land/public land; council laws/bylaws; worksafe etc. etc. you can just introduce yourself to a whole other set of rules/regulations that will probably be just as restrictive or untenable?
Best bet is if you are deadset on small scale mining raise the required funds & do it under the correct mining tenure to suit not under a miners right which is now predominantly aimed at the hobbyist.

You can put your dictionaries away.

Any statute must be interpreted in the spirit it was written.

You dig a hole you fill it in when you go home [even if you return the next day.]
or you camp next to it and continue in the morning.

how about a sheet of ply and a thin covering of dirt if you're coming back in the morning , pitch a tent on it so its occupied and no one walks on it .