something got me thinking

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something has got me thinking if we didn't have prospectors and small scale miners then it would be hard for the big mining companys to find possible gold targets and without small scale miners or prospectors most big mining companys would waste $1000s on exploration and some wouldn't even bother because they wouldn't know what the ground was like if it was covered over by 1 to 2 meters of top soil and what wasn't economical to the average small scale miner would be economical to the big scale miners but without the small scale miner finding it or putting in the time and effort to test areas for gold you may not have any big low grade open cut mines to follow

it seams in Victoria small scale miners are slowly dieing out

i my self go to lots of areas in victoria and do a lot of sampling work in old mines and on undug ground for gold and other minerals and some small scale mining if i find a high grade ore deposit
 
To some extent yes. Large companies these days will either have their own specialist exploration teams or employ the services of a specialist company.
Exploration relies on a lot of information that is gathered from prospecting (rock/soil sampling & analysis, drilling, excavation etc.), historic & current mining records, mineral & geological mapping/imaging etc.
There is no doubt that individual prospectors & small scale miners can/do play a part but exploration still goes on regardless also. New deposits are found fairly regularly but the fact is the majority aren't financially viable, presently, to mine. Small scale miners are being regulated out in my opinion - costs, licensing, mining conditions etc. all taking a toll - more so in some states than others.
Be interesting if you could offer some information to others on here as to the small scale mining methods you employ & how they are contained under your Miners Right or if you now have other licensing in place & what that process is/was. Plenty would have an interest.
 
most definitely, I'm interested.

The thought of quitting the day job and having a fair crack at a small claim sounds great. I totally understand its a romantic idea and the reality of it would be hard work, blood sweat and tears. Still, just to have a go and say I've done would be a good enough reward

Spikegold has had a fair crack recently by digging his shaft, that to me is small scale and I reckon I will do it at some stage, just need to research to find a good spot in shallow ground.

I think you can get away with a fair bit whilst staying within the limits of your miners right. Digging a shaft and finding a run of gold would be great and possibly very rewarding and unless you had a few good trustworthy mates to join you in the venture it could also easily be achieved by a dedicated husband and wife team.

Interesting to hear what others have to say.
 
MJB said:
Really...I thought that in Vic there was no limit to depth, just that you have to fill it in at the end of your dig. I know QLD has a depth limit...

Thanks, I may be wrong, in fact I hope I am wrong. I have had my head so deep in rules and regs for the last few months that I may have mixed those from a couple of states.

Rob
 
Lets look at it from a generalised economical & legislative stand point.
Small miners are normally a person or company operating under a Prospecting Licence (PL)

Mining activity.
- Open Cut
- Alluvial Gold
- 5Ha pegged or 50,000 sq M (maximum allowable land parcel under a PL)
- Crown land unrestricted (means no royalties payable to private land holder)
- Maximum depth up to 5 M
- No native title claim or other indigenous significant items.
- Maximum 5 year term

Application - assumes that your successful on the first submission $2060
Additional expenses - Geology, survey, pegging, public notices, public consultation etc. $2940
Sub total $5000

Environmental Rejuvenation Bond (based on the above) $5000per Ha or 10,000 sqM $25,000

Total Application fees and bond $30,000

So you get your approval to start digging, what are you going to dig with?
- Old dozer MUST have with rippers $20,000
- Backhoe (cheaper than buying excavator, truck and front end loader) $40,000
- Generator 20kVa $10,000
- Diesel powered Pump $10,000
- Wash plant 10-15 m/per hour (This is hard for me to price since I can make my own) $10,000
- Site Hut/Sea container $2000

Total plant and equipment $92,000

Grand total PRE START UP $122,000

The estimate above is based loosely on "best case cost" and could be well over $200k OR you could hire equipment as you require it, personally I'd rather own the asset.

Next is running costs which are completely subjective to environmental conditions, Condition of equipment, number of employees, subcontractors etc. However it is safe to say since everything we need runs on Diesel the diesel bill is going to be fairly consistent.
Now we also need to consider time taken to strip an area so the diesel bill must be carried as a liability before any material is run. As we are on a bush lease on crown land we could recoup some costs by selling the Common wood or tendering out the felling and removal of trees but this is an unknown and subjects us to the time frame of getting the trees gone.
We'll need someone to help out so the next cut can be getting stripped while we process Pay so there are wages and all related cost that go with employing people.

- Diesel 2000L per week @ $1.50avg/L $3000
- Employees x 2 @ $50/hr (includes super, workcover etc.) Min 60hrs/wk x 2 =120hrs $6000
- Other expenses ie: Port-a-loo, PPE, waste disposal, phone, internet, Insurance etc. $1000
Total weekly expenditure $10,000
***These costings do not include loan repayments or hire fee of equipment***

It can be summarized that it will be 2 weeks before the first cut is processed for a total ongoing cost liability of $20,000 which can be added to the $122,000 start up costs for a total of $142,000.

Once you've mined the gold processed it, sold it, paid your bills, paid your royalties to the gov, paid your tails fees and paid your taxes you may pocket $, so unless your mining 2g/m3 your likely to lose your shirt.
 
Wintersnake said:
Lets look at it from a generalised economical & legislative stand point.
Small miners are normally a person or company operating under a Prospecting Licence (PL)

Mining activity.
- Open Cut
- Alluvial Gold
- 5Ha pegged or 50,000 sq M (maximum allowable land parcel under a PL)
- Crown land unrestricted (means no royalties payable to private land holder)
- Maximum depth up to 5 M
- No native title claim or other indigenous significant items.
- Maximum 5 year term

Application - assumes that your successful on the first submission $2060
Additional expenses - Geology, survey, pegging, public notices, public consultation etc. $2940
Sub total $5000

Environmental Rejuvenation Bond (based on the above) $5000per Ha or 10,000 sqM $25,000

Total Application fees and bond $30,000

So you get your approval to start digging, what are you going to dig with?
- Old dozer MUST have with rippers $20,000
- Backhoe (cheaper than buying excavator, truck and front end loader) $40,000
- Generator 20kVa $10,000
- Diesel powered Pump $10,000
- Wash plant 10-15 m/per hour (This is hard for me to price since I can make my own) $10,000
- Site Hut/Sea container $2000

Total plant and equipment $92,000

Grand total PRE START UP $122,000

The estimate above is based loosely on "best case cost" and could be well over $200k OR you could hire equipment as you require it, personally I'd rather own the asset.

Next is running costs which are completely subjective to environmental conditions, Condition of equipment, number of employees, subcontractors etc. However it is safe to say since everything we need runs on Diesel the diesel bill is going to be fairly consistent.
Now we also need to consider time taken to strip an area so the diesel bill must be carried as a liability before any material is run. As we are on a bush lease on crown land we could recoup some costs by selling the Common wood or tendering out the felling and removal of trees but this is an unknown and subjects us to the time frame of getting the trees gone.
We'll need someone to help out so the next cut can be getting stripped while we process Pay so there are wages and all related cost that go with employing people.

- Diesel 2000L per week @ $1.50avg/L $3000
- Employees x 2 @ $50/hr (includes super, workcover etc.) Min 60hrs/wk x 2 =120hrs $6000
- Other expenses ie: Port-a-loo, PPE, waste disposal, phone, internet, Insurance etc. $1000
Total weekly expenditure $10,000
***These costings do not include loan repayments or hire fee of equipment***

It can be summarized that it will be 2 weeks before the first cut is processed for a total ongoing cost liability of $20,000 which can be added to the $122,000 start up costs for a total of $142,000.

Once you've mined the gold processed it, sold it, paid your bills, paid your royalties to the gov, paid your tails fees and paid your taxes you may pocket $, so unless your mining 2g/m3 your likely to lose your shirt.
You would be hoping for a pretty big find, when you can only dig to 5meters.
Reasonably fair assessment Wintersnake. :)
 
A fair and accurate estimation WS.

I would also factor in costing for equipment maintenance, unforseen break-downs, spare parts and a good diesel fitter/bush mechanic that can do a McGivor out in the field thus saving any transportation costs to a workshop!

Not as short as a Klondike summer season, but you have only 5 years to get extractions out and processed.

After 5 years, the lease cannot be renewed, nor can it adjoin an adjacent lease where the ground is proven.

Above all, as you said......good ground, on an old alluvial lead.

Its a huge risk, but thats why we call it Gold Mining. If you dont stick your neck out on a hunch, you will never advance anywhere.

Regards
 
I'd be keen to invest in those above figures, either 50/50 or 3 way.

If anyone is interested.
 
Definitely have to factor maintenance, but would be so dependant on the condition of your gear and how it's operated it's sort of like how long is a piece of string. you could I guess set aside a emergency fund.
On the other hand Planned maintenance/service schedules could be estimated quite accurately.

In my mind as a prospector moving up to a PL venture you need to have done significant amount of homework on an area, including quite a few post hole digger samples through over burden.
 
That's the great thing about pa, someone always at the ready to fill in the blanks.

Wouldn't mind a crack at around the 10k mark on half decent ground under miners right there's a few well known places around here in vic that would see a return on top. The fact is the 9-5 is pretty certain for a return and getting enough days of the right weather would play a huge part in that decision.
 
Just trying to look at all the angles here!

Finding good ground is one thing, getting water to the wash plant is another.

We all no that the triangle if fairly dry and semi arid country.

You would either have to cart the pay dirt to water which can be expensive and time consuming depending on the distance required.

Or you could bring the water to the pay dirt cut......I dunno, either sinking a bore down to the water table and using a decent submersible to pump it to your dam or the plant, or cart it in using a water truck?

There are some decent dams still containing good water scattered around the state forest, but how far from your cut, and how big your operation intends to be would be critical here!

Just a thought.

;)

Edit: You were too quick for me WS
 
GeoVic has a historical water table depth layer which is pretty handy for bores.
However if you did go this route you pay the driller per meter and a bore pump would set you back an additional 30K minimum. As well as a host of water board and council BS.
I would only consider a site that could maintain it's own process water supply, sure tank in potable water but process water is the blood of an operation. I know my stock dam will lose a lot to evaporation over peak summer 40+ deg.
 
Mate of mine in 1980s was running a small mine in the triangle. When he was out of water he use to get extra work with his backhoe and the dozer.
 
Onga Sta-Rite 90 GPM/3wire High-Flow Series/stainless steel abrasive water submersible. 100m head max. (330 ft)

10HP, would need to run it from a three phase diesel genny and pay sinking costs, but would do the job i reckon for a medium sized wash plant running off back into the process dam

$3500 new

Water table in a favourite area of mine 150-180ft

Sorry HTY, Im hijacking threads again aren't I?

One would think i should know the rules by now.

 
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